Thread: The strongest economy in the world

^ Jet, This is really not about socialism.

It's about the way the USA has been on this road for decades. When BO entered office on Jan, 20, 09 the National Debt was over 10 Trillion dollars.

I don't like BO's strategy, but you have to go back decades to see this behavior.

Not only deficits starting more in 1980, but the entitlements catastrophe of SS and Medicare that was never dealt with decades ago.

BTW, I browsed Glenn Beck's Common Sense copy. He took Paine's book that is 225+ years old, copied, and wrote a few chapter of intro.

He's piggy-backing off of a dead man. Quite poor, IMO.

As far as Dick Morris, Beck, and the others, this is a niche industry. In times of crisis and nervousness these political books do well. So do economic books (Schiff, Rogers, Roubini, Fekete, etc.).

It's not about "conservatives" or "liberals." Not when it comes to the economic policies of the USA for the last several decades.

^ So, is spending their way out of it going to fix it?

Yep, I heard Beck's book is based on Paine's book of the same name. Did he attribute his views to the good sir? (I haven't read the latest.)

Jet, the whole debt based economy concept was flawed. It has nothing to do with Bush, Obama or even Yogi Bear.

^ So why continue it?

Obamas plan is to devalutate the dollar by printing billions. We can pay back China and Russia in cheaper dollars up to about 20%. It's good for real estate holders..rents will be higher and home prices will rebound from 25 to 30% losses in some markets. Food and gas prices have already increased 30%--a loaf of bread that sold last year for $3.00 is now $4.50. The poor will be given increased amounts of aid from food stamps.
Meanwhile the insurance companies and the NY Bankers have stolen BILLIONS from the US Treasury. When the CEO of AIG as asked by the O's Sec of Treas.
"Where did the 30 billion go" they said " We don't have to tell you".
Chinese and American billionares are setting up dummie businesses to buy land all over the world (Thialand).

How are Treasuries doing these days?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^ So why continue it?

Simple answer is don't, in the same way as Bush should have done.

Did you see Biden's comments?
Vice President Joe Biden told people attending an AARP town hall meeting that unless the Democrat-supported health care plan becomes law the nation will go bankrupt and that the only way to avoid that fate is for the government to spend more money.

“And folks look, AARP knows and the people with me here today know, the president knows, and I know, that the status quo is simply not acceptable,” Biden said at the event on Thursday in Alexandria, Va. “It’s totally unacceptable. And it’s completely unsustainable. Even if we wanted to keep it the way we have it now. It can’t do it financially.”
“We’re going to go bankrupt as a nation,” Biden said.
“Now, people when I say that look at me and say, ‘What are you talking about, Joe? You’re telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?’” Biden said. “The answer is yes, that's what I’m telling you.”

CNSNews.com - Joe Biden: ‘We Have to Go Spend Money to Keep From Going Bankrupt’

^
What a total fokkin' idiot. That's the kind of guy people like RA vote for...say no more

Nattering nabobs of negativism.

Best weekly gain in the Dow since March-

Earnings beat analysts’ estimates by an average of 16 percent for the 38 companies in the S&P 500 that released results since July 8.

Crude oil rose more than $1 a barrel as construction of single-family dwellings jumped by the most since 2004, a sign the worst of the recession may have passed.

“The housing starts number was frankly great,” said Bill O’Grady, the chief market strategist for Confluence Investment Management in St. Louis. “You are starting to see evidence that the worst of the recession is over.”

U.S. Markets Wrap: Dow Industrials Rise, Bonds Fall on Housing - Bloomberg.com

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Did you see Biden's comments?
Vice President Joe Biden told people attending an AARP town hall meeting that unless the Democrat-supported health care plan becomes law the nation will go bankrupt and that the only way to avoid that fate is for the government to spend more money.

“And folks look, AARP knows and the people with me here today know, the president knows, and I know, that the status quo is simply not acceptable,” Biden said at the event on Thursday in Alexandria, Va. “It’s totally unacceptable. And it’s completely unsustainable. Even if we wanted to keep it the way we have it now. It can’t do it financially.”
“We’re going to go bankrupt as a nation,” Biden said.

It's quite possible that the US is going to go bankrupt, regardless.

And this path to bankruptcy started decades ago.

^ Ya, shoulda cut Medicare/Caid.

Originally Posted by sabang

Nattering nabobs of negativism.

Best weekly gain in the Dow since March-

You think people's "confidence" in the economy is bolstering markets? You from planet Biden, SB?
The surge in bank 2Q profits. Did you check the core earnings, SB? Citi's huge jump came from...the sale of SmithBarney...the other key banks' hikes came from inv banking and prop trading, not traditional biz.
I would bet that the bears will have the market over the next few weeks, taking profits to get out of Dodge. I'd like to see Spin's view.

As for housing starts, that uptick would be a rush to complete projects before the tax break ends in Nov.

And how about those unemployment figures?

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Labor Department says unemployment topped 10 percent in 16 states last month. The rate in Michigan surpassed 15 percent, the first time any state hit that mark since 1984.

In bank profits, less than meets the eye - Yahoo! Finance=

June housing construction rises more than expected - Yahoo! Finance=

Unemployment tops 10 percent in 16 states in June; Michigan at 15.2 percent, highest since ‘84

Views on the current state of the union from the WSJ.
Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com

Originally Posted by sabang

Nattering nabobs of negativism.

Heh...and they say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!
I love it when a Liberal uses that enduring term coined by one of those arch-evil Republicans: Spiro T. Agnew.

^ What, you expect him to come up with alliteration like that on his own?

Originally Posted by sabang

Nattering nabobs of negativism.

Best weekly gain in the Dow since March-

Earnings beat analysts’ estimates by an average of 16 percent for the 38 companies in the S&P 500 that released results since July 8.

Crude oil rose more than $1 a barrel as construction of single-family dwellings jumped by the most since 2004, a sign the worst of the recession may have passed.

“The housing starts number was frankly great,” said Bill O’Grady, the chief market strategist for Confluence Investment Management in St. Louis. “You are starting to see evidence that the worst of the recession is over.”

U.S. Markets Wrap: Dow Industrials Rise, Bonds Fall on Housing - Bloomberg.com

"President George W. Bush and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who normally were at daggers drawn, agreed that a $168 billion stimulus — this was Stimulus I — would be the "booster shot" the economy needed. Unemployment then was 4.8 percent."

"In January, the Obama administration, shiny as a new dime and bursting with brains, said that unless another stimulus — Stimulus II wound up involving $787 billion — was passed immediately, unemployment, which then was 7.6 percent, would reach 9 percent by 2010. But halfway through 2009, the rate is 9.5. For the first time since the now 16-nation "euro zone" was established in 1999, the unemployment rate in America is as high as it is in that region, which Americans once considered a cautionary lesson on the wages of sin, understood as excessive taxation and regulation. "

"At the June 29 White House briefing, press secretary Robert Gibbs was asked, with reference to health-care legislation, if the president's pledge not to raise taxes on couples making less than $250,000 is "still active." Gibbs answered: "We are going to let the process work its way through." What is your guess?" Higher taxes, anyone?
By George Will George Will



When are you liberals ever going to wake up? Obama would and did promise anything to get into office in order to inflict universal government control. He made it, and now the economy is in free-fall. The writing was on the wall for many of us - all you had to do was look at Obama's confidants/allies - Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Acorn.

Originally Posted by venturalaw

." What is your guess?" Higher taxes, anyone?

My guess is Yes, actually.

Originally Posted by venturalaw

He made it, and now the economy is in free-fall.

The economy and unemployment would be considerably worse if it were not for Stimulus 2. McCain would have passed a Stimulus 2 as well for that matter- I doubt it would have varied substantively.

And vital economic indicators such as housing starts, the Dow and corporate profits are pointing to the economy bottoming out, if anything sooner than I expected (False dawn?). Employment will be the last to recover, as it always is- and don't forget the figures are late, too. It is a not a leading indicator.

It's too early still to call the end of the Recession, and the next couple of unemployment numbers will be worse regardless, but there are some promising signs out there. Many eyes will be on the Corporate earnings season we are now entering.

^ I wish I had your optimism, SB. I am not happy with the 2Q earnings reported to date as so much is one-time stuff. Sure, some banks,for example, made more from biz but largely from increases in charges like ATM use -- the loan biz is still in the basement and digging itself a sub layer. IMO, companies are not only freaking about cap'n'trade expenses but what they will have to pay if the health care bill passes.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I would bet that the bears will have the market over the next few weeks, taking profits to get out of Dodge. I'd like to see Spin's view.

Ok then

I think that so many people are expecting the market to fall, so many people are getting short, so many people are discrediting the green shots recovery story, that the market will carry on rising.
The market generally takes the route that will cause the most pain to the majority, the majority at the moment remain negative and sceptical, add into the mix the fact that Goldman Sachs and Jp Morgan's computers now account for over 50% of daily trading then you can sense that they will gunning certain stocks to trigger short squeezes So the market goes higher from here! Possibly to 1050 on the S&P. Thats what I'm positioning for.
The market will reverse when the bears finally throw in the towl and go long.

Personally, I'm in the camp that believes the recovery is well underway. Damn they even had Roubini in the telly the other day getting all bullish on the economy!

^ You mean Houdini?
Ya bladdy turncoat, Spin.

How bout these stats, Spinner:
Broad Unemployment Across the U.S.

Under a broader definition of joblessness, some states have rates higher than 20 percent. This rate includes part-time workers who want to work full time, as well some people who want to work but have not looked for a job in the last four weeks.

Broad Unemployment Across the U.S. - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com

Originally Posted by sabang

It's too early still to call the end of the Recession

My call is that the recession in the USA is over now. Lets see how it pans out later when the officials call the actuall time, but I'm saying August 2009!

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Broad Unemployment Across the U.S.

Those numbers are ugly as the day is long. But it was the same set of numbers at the end of every other recession. (ok i lied, they are a lot worse this time than ever before but you get the idea)

Originally Posted by Spin

Originally Posted by sabang

It's too early still to call the end of the Recession

My call is that the recession in the USA is over now. Lets see how it pans out later when the officials call the actuall time, but I'm saying August 2009!

Aunt Jemima! I'm awarding you the tin can hat, Spinny! What industry is going to drive the economy? Even Ford is complaining that the govt taking over the finance for GM and Chrysler is feking its biz. Who is going to drive the uptick, Spin?

White House expects better GDP figures
July 20, 2009 - 8:09AM

Figures for the US gross domestic product (GDP) in the second quarter of year will probably improve "a lot" from the first quarter, White House budget director Peter Orszag said on Sunday.
"The second quarter GDP numbers, even though they're likely to still show a decline, are likely to look a lot better than the first quarter, which is a sign of progress," he told CNN's "State of the Union".
The US Treasury will published figures for second quarter economic activity on July 31.
Figures published by the US Commerce Department said last quarter's GDP shrank at an annual rate of 5.5 per cent, which was still an improvement from the previous quarter's decline at an annualised rate of 6.3 per cent.
Orzsag said on Sunday that the improvement in the first quarter of the year was a positive sign.
"We've stepped back from that precipice, but we're not yet in the growth zone," he said. "Most private sector forecasters are suggesting that won't happen until later this year."
The US Federal Reserve said in minutes released from its last meeting that it has revised its forecast for growth.
The central bank now expects the decline in economic activity to be between one and 1.5 per cent for all of 2009, revised from a previous estimate of a two percent rate of decline for the year.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...0720-dpus.html

Probably spurious to comment further until the GDP figures are actually released, but if the forecast proves accurate that is an encouraging sign.

The Stim is working, on several levels. The longer term assessment though will be whether it was 'Worth the Money'.

I'm tending towards Yes.