Thread: Obama Stimulus package

^ You of all people will know the conundrum Jet. And therefore how pointless it is bickering over $30mm. To the extent that it restores confidence, it is irrelevant whether the dosh is spent on swamps, holidays for the rich or rubber dildos.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Ya, that $30 mil for Pelosi's marshland and mouse protection is rreal good stimulus. How many jobs from that? This bill sucks.

poor jet.



you've been duped by the radical, right-wing echo chamber yet again.



it's always the same with these clowns.....some pajama clad blogger typing in his mother's basement makes something up....it gets parroted by a 'respected' right wing internet site (drudge),,,,,,,,then the mainstream right wing media (FIX news, washington times) picks it up, and then some half-wit staffer passes it along to a GOP pol (steele) who regurgitates it without doing the slightest bit of actual research.


do a bit of your own research, dearie......you'll find that this 'story' is total BS and was debunked nearly two days ago

^ & ^^ 555555555 Sho, the Pelosi clan just slid tons of pork into the bill. Gave how many thousands of pages for senators and staff to check overnight? Uh huh. Put the other spending in separate packages, put stimulus only in this bill. Course that didn't happen. Glad you're paying your taxes, or are you Ray? Skipping out on your duty coz you live overseas, right? You're just like Geithner and his tax dodger ilk.

Strangely enough, you weren't so cynical Jet when the US taxpayer was spending untold billions bailing out the bloated investment banks, such as Bear Sterns. What has changed since?

Oh, thats right- the President.

^^even for you jet, that was a ham-fisted attempt at distraction......tell us more about the marshland and mouse protection and the stimulus plan....i quoted your post (#100) in its entirety, so you should have no problems defending it, right?

Congress is a bunch of muppets - how on earth do you vote for smth this big when you haven't even read the bill? I feel sorry for the yanks - very irresponsible legislation.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Waste Not Want Not

"You never want a serious crisis go to waste," says Obama's Chief Henchman Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel, this miserable lowlife who will be in charge of fabricating numbers for the next census.

Yep. Redraw the political boundaries so the Dems get as many advantages as possible. They're gonna need it after they use the next four years to fek up the country.
Sabang, I never liked the TARP pkg either. If you can let Lehmans fail, you can let the rest flounder. BUT, that would have totally feked the economy. It's just a pity that there wasn't more thought given to how the $ should have been spent -- ie, a demand that banks start lending. I read that many smaller banks refused any govt funds coz there were too many strings attached. Smart move.
Small Banks Say 'No Thanks' to U.S. Bailout Money - BusinessWeek

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I read that many smaller banks refused any govt funds coz there were too many strings attached. Smart move.

Was it only the small banks that had strings attached? What were the strings attached in the Bush bailout of the big banks? Personally, I don't think they should be bailed out at all. But, from what I saw of the Bush bailout it was the last grab before he left, and the money was not introduced into lending, but padded the pockets of the elite and allowed them to buy up the banks that were exempt from the bailout funds. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think America will soon resemble Brazil.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Hmm, I work in finance and never considered us "elite".

I don't consider you "elite" either. Not unless you have over 100 mil in the bank.

Didn't the Bush bailout go to a few select big banks and not the smaller ones?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I know most of you hate the financial industry and its perks, but that's the nature of the beast.

And, like all beasts, they should be slain, not bailed out.

This is enough to make one hurl!

jet, are you going to address your claim that the marshland/mouse project was included in the stimulus project....or are you admitting that you got duped by the right wing echo chamber?

Originally Posted by pickel

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Hmm, I work in finance and never considered us "elite".

I don't consider you "elite" either. Not unless you have over 100 mil in the bank.

Didn't the Bush bailout go to a few select big banks and not the smaller ones?

Nope. Many smaller banks were offered funds, which they refused. For reference, please read the Business Week article I posted.

Originally Posted by raycarey

jet, are you going to address your claim that the marshland/mouse project was included in the stimulus project....or are you admitting that you got duped by the right wing echo chamber?

Show me the stimulus benefits from this pork, reach around. Mebbe the mice will start a unionised farm factory?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Mebbe the mice will start a unionised farm factory?

poor jet....you still don't get it, do you? 5555555

you've been caught out parroting the BS talking points of the right wing echo chamber.

you made this post (#100 and here in its entirety) about the marshland/mouse project being included in the stimulus bill......but it wasn't included.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Ya, that $30 mil for Pelosi's marshland and mouse protection is rreal good stimulus. How many jobs from that? This bill sucks.

it was just a lie that was trumpeted by the right..and you bought it hook, line and sinker.

and what's so ironic is how you've repeatedly posted how you have such a discerning eye when it comes to the media.

Again my posts are disappearing . . . who is the fuckwit deleting my posts . . . which are certainly not more or less confrontational than the others?

So, own up or be a chicken-shit.

As for getting answers from Jet when she is caught out, yet again, she will just circumvent the issue . . .

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Show me the stimulus benefits from this pork, reach around. Mebbe the mice will start a unionised farm factory?

Originally Posted by raycarey

you made this post (#100 and here in its entirety) about the marshland/mouse project being included in the stimulus bill......but it wasn't included.

Ah...but it was...in a stealth form that cloaks it in a 'Wetlands Preservation' clause. Cought out again have ya Reach? Heh...do yer homework & take a lesson re change while yer at it!

BO's stimulus program is already creating jobs!

Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion: Stimulus Plan Already Creates Jobs - For Get Rich Quick Artists

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Mebbe the mice will start a unionised farm factory?

poor jet....you still don't get it, do you? 5555555

you've been caught out parroting the BS talking points of the right wing echo chamber.

you made this post (#100 and here in its entirety) about the marshland/mouse project being included in the stimulus bill......but it wasn't included.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Ya, that $30 mil for Pelosi's marshland and mouse protection is rreal good stimulus. How many jobs from that? This bill sucks.

it was just a lie that was trumpeted by the right..and you bought it hook, line and sinker.

and what's so ironic is how you've repeatedly posted how you have such a discerning eye when it comes to the media.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by raycarey

you made this post (#100 and here in its entirety) about the marshland/mouse project being included in the stimulus bill......but it wasn't included.

Ah...but it was...in a stealth form that cloaks it in a 'Wetlands Preservation' clause. Cought out again have ya Reach? Heh...do yer homework & take a lesson re change while yer at it!

Yep, here's a quote from a newspaper for ya, reach around. Sorrry that we hear stuff before the libbie press gets around to mentioning it for ya.
Pelosi's mouse slated for $30M slice of cheese

S.A. Miller (Contact)
Thursday, February 12, 2009

UPDATED:

Talk about a pet project. A tiny mouse with the longtime backing of a political giant may soon reap the benefits of the economic-stimulus package.
Lawmakers and administration officials divulged Wednesday that the $789 billion economic stimulus bill being finalized behind closed doors in Congress includes $30 million for wetlands restoration that the Obama administration intends to spend in the San Francisco Bay Area to protect, among other things, the endangered salt marsh harvest mouse.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi represents the city of San Francisco and has previously championed preserving the mouse's habitat in the Bay Area.
Washington Times - Pelosi's mouse slated for $30M slice of cheese

Oh, oops, huh, reach around. Me no lie.

Are we not talking about endangered species protection and the jobs that are created in such areas as wildlife and environmental preservation?

wetlands restoration that the Obama administration intends to spend in the San Francisco Bay Area to protect, among other things, the endangered salt marsh harvest mouse.

Life is not always as simple as you, a simpleton, would like to make it out to be.

Some comments have noted this, in this thread and others.

So, in your opinion, will this bailing out of works, work? Or, is this just something that has to be done, even though it likely will not work?

The US and UK administrations are still fighting a liquidity crisis (meaning a blockage in the veins of the financial system) when the real problem is insolvency (cardiac arrest).

By diverting all available funds to prop up the walking dead, the governments are sucking up money from the rest of the economy.

...[snip]...

Governments pretend they are giving banks money to pay off their debts. They are not. They are giving the banks capital, which they lock in their vaults.

Worse still, governments are taking on responsibility for repaying huge debts, which in the UK run to four times the annual total national output.

This is happening through debt guarantees, promises of further loans (sometimes in return for worthless assets) and taking banks into state ownership.

It would be great if governments could pay off those debts. The fact is the debt is now so big that even governments don't have enough money to settle the bill.

Transferring bank debt from bank to government does not eliminate it. It will be paid for by higher taxes, poorer services, slower growth and lower incomes.

...[snip]...

Don't worry; the UK government is taking steps to avoid default.

It's decided to use inflation to eat up the debt or, in other words, to print money. The UK Treasury has authorised the Bank of England to buy debt or bonds with printed money.

...[snip]...

Nouriel Roubini, the most accurate sage of this catastrophe, estimates the US financial system will lose $3.6 trillion, half of that from banks and brokers. As the US bank's entire capital amounts to $1.4 trillion, they are already "effectively insolvent".

By bailing out the dead banks, the US and UK are sleep walking into the largest default crisis in history.

Link & entire: RT: Business : Bank Bailout Risks Default

Originally Posted by Milkman

It's decided to use inflation to eat up the debt or, in other words, to print money.

Yeh, someones got to pay the Piper and in both the UK and US I see no other way out than a combination of inflating the currency, higher tax revenue and reining in government spending. Which ain't great for the economy but arguably good for property values- real estate historically does fine in inflationary times, and maybe if you're not sure about the Banks, even more so.

Public confidence is very important though- if the great unwashed can be coerced or cajoled into buying real estate and servicing loans again, then by definition a number of loans that are underwater become solvent again- and thus, by definition the total amount of debt outstanding shrinks. As long as the public, business and the finance system keep their money in their pockets n preparation for hard times, the crisis only gets worse.

Times of crisis can also be used to introduce 'other' agendas, as I think Obama is showing. One Sacred Cow that has not even been broached yet is Defence spending- which I think, particularly in the US, is an unnecesarily high percentage of GDP- and well known to involve plenty of waste. THE Military Industrial complex is enormously influential in Washington, and few Presidents have the Balls to take them on. I hope Obama does- there is a lot of taxpayer money wasted there, and I honestly do not see why the US taxpayer has to foot the bill for just under 50% of the worlds defence expenditure- it is not necessary, nowhere near necessary.

Originally Posted by Milkman

Some comments have noted this, in this thread and others.

So, in your opinion, will this bailing out of works, work? Or, is this just something that has to be done, even though it likely will not work?

If anything "works" it will be the $350 billion that the Obama crew has to spend on the banking industry in combination with the current talks about finally spending some money directly in the mortgage market.

IMHO all the porkulus package will accomplish is increasing the debt.

That being said the politicians really have no choice but to pass some kind of package - if they want to get re-elected. So something had to be done in thier minds regardless of any good that might come of it.