The Illusion of Freedom

**barbaro** · 17-12-2008, 08:16 PM

Comments and opinions? Much of it makes sense, in a way, although it's coming from an angle (persepective) I haven't thought too deeply about.

Interesting concepts of "free range," and "statism."

**Takeovers** · 18-12-2008, 12:02 AM

This is some interesting concept. It is basically a conspiracy theory, but a truly inventiv one.

Of course it fails on one basic assumption. For this to be true there would have to be some group of people who know and act accordingly. That is impossible because this secret could never be kept secret forever.

It would require some group of outsiders to be the farmers, because humans couldn't keep it up, at least not conciously. Maybe those reptile people mentioned in the recent conspiracy theory thread are farming us?

DaffyDuck · 18-12-2008, 02:38 AM

Pretty much stopped watching when it started with a reference to The Matrix.

Typical conspiracy theory script.

**kingwilly** · 18-12-2008, 05:54 AM

didnt even start watching, surprised Jesus and DriventoWank aint on it already...

**Rural Surin** · 18-12-2008, 06:59 AM

How is it that any new or alternative information/theory is automatically caste into the conspiracy realm?

DaffyDuck · 18-12-2008, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

How is it that any new or alternative information/theory is automatically caste into the conspiracy realm?

The whole 'consider the source' concept still holds true, including when applied to critics of the sceptics....

Now I *know* it's just the same old drivel.

**kingwilly** · 18-12-2008, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

How is it that any new or alternative information/theory is automatically caste into the conspiracy realm?

how about the looney tunes realm then?

erm, no offence DD.....coincidence only.

**Rural Surin** · 18-12-2008, 07:33 AM

This always reminds me of the unconventional historian that suggest the old school, narrow, conventionally and establishment history circles...is not curious.

**sabang** · 18-12-2008, 09:17 AM

It took ages to download, but refreshing viewing. Nothing new though.

It is not a Conspiracy theory at all- just standard sociology really, but put a bit more provocatively. Certainly worth viewing if you've never thought outside the square with respect to societies and class/wealth differentials, wage labour and debt obligation vs. slavery, self reinforcing belief systems such as nationalism and so on. Also, critically, the methods by which these are imposed or inculcated on the greater mass of society

The question is still left unanswered though- what would work better than what we have in 'Democratic' society. Thats the real question.

A bit more challenging is to choose a 'clinic' or topic to compare this so called radical (not radical at all really) thinking against- and what better than what has been happening right here in the Land of Smiles. It's all there. Self reinforcing philosophy by the Bucket load-

'Monarchism'- the protesters are pro- Monarchy. Left unmentioned is so are the provincial folk. A total non-sequitur. Self reinforcing justification.
Nationalism- 'For the good of the country' (

). Like, who's country- now thats the real question. Occupying airrports and vandalising the seat of Government is quite obviously not for the good of the country.
Class/Wealth differential- the more urbanised dwellers, (with a large percentage of Chinese ethnicity or wannabe Chinese lookalikes) are, by self reinforcing belief, 'superior' to the Provincial or rural stock- the "Outsiders". Only they know what is best for the country- the others are too stupid or uneducated to deserve a meaningful say. Because Thailand is only a developing country, this difference can be put in blatantly racist terms, unlike the more advanced, PC West- but the same things apply.
Wage labour/debt obligation aka slavery- Hand to mouth serfs struggling to feed themselves, keep a roof over their heads and service debt do not have a lot of time for Political philosophy- even less so when they are effectively denied access to education. The 'new order' was perceived as a clear threat to many- because the Serfs would realise they actually had (nominally) equal rights and collective power- indeed, they were excercising it democratically, in defiance of the Elites. Clear threat to the Actual or Wannabe "Owners".

Simply put, a flexing of muscle, an excercise of power by the Beneficiaries or Owners over the Serfs, to keep them remote from the seat of power and the excercise of that power. Backed up by self reinforcing beliefs, clear hypocracy and lies glossed over.

Not so radical after all- you can look at the history of most social movements in the same way. The reality is, perceived Self Interest, specifically the monopoly of power, overrides altruistic or Democratic principles anyday- to those that benefit from the Status Quo. Keeping the mass of people ignorant, or safely indoctrinated- and, very useful, to keep them busy meeting their "Obligations" is always preferred to more radical or violent means of suppression.

**Takeovers** · 18-12-2008, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

It took ages to download, but refreshing viewing. Nothing new though.

agreed

Originally Posted by sabang

It is not a Conspiracy theory at all-

Yes it is. Assuming there is a group or class of people who secretly rule the world is a conspiracy theory. And like most of them it has the basic flaw of being impossible. No group of humans could keep this kind of secret forever or even for any extended period.

Originally Posted by sabang

just standard sociology really, but put a bit more provocatively.

The farming part, yes I agree.

**barbaro** · 18-12-2008, 03:41 PM

^ It's not a secret.

It's just the way, the presenter, believe the way things, are.

**Jesus Jones** · 19-12-2008, 11:14 PM

The Bilderberg was denied for years, now it's common knowledge. Couldn't watch the vid so i can comment.

Nice to know your still thinking of me KP.

**barbaro** · 20-12-2008, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

The Bilderberg was denied for years, now it's common knowledge.

What is the "Bilderberg?" Thanks in advance. The thread has turned into discussion about "conspiracies" and "secrets" and that is fine.

**spiff** · 20-12-2008, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Originally Posted by sabang

It is not a Conspiracy theory at all-

Yes it is. Assuming there is a group or class of people who secretly rule the world is a conspiracy theory. And like most of them it has the basic flaw of being impossible. No group of humans could keep this kind of secret forever or even for any extended period.

Not really a conspiracy theory. There are no secret rulers.

Similar organisational structures have evolved in different parts of the world independently. By now this has become a complex interconnected global system. It is self-perpetuating and does not require a conscious will to be communicated and coordinated across its parts by 'secret rulers'.

The salient point, IMHO, is that the privileged and the 'rulers' are neither in control nor "free" either. They fill roles and fulfill functions.
As soon as they'd claim their supposed freedom by stepping out and abandoning the role they occupy, they'd lose the privileges which come with this role. The illusion that reaching 'higher' positions equals more freedom, is part of the motivational propaganda.

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