The God Delusion

[ChiangMai noon]

I have been a fairly committed atheist since I was about 4 and my Dad told me that God was as much a crock of shit as Santa.

During my lifetime, I have met very few people that were theist in any religion. Even married a purported muslim that ate bacon and drank alcohol.

After downloading and listening to Richard Dawkins book, the God Delusion, sounds like being an atheist, in America in particular puts you in the minority.

Had never given too much thought to people's faith before, always sort of thought they were a bit loony, but he does make some very saliant points about the incredible dangers of all faith (lack of reason).

I think I'm going to be a more active atheist from now on and argue with people who aren't.

If you believe in God, what is it that you believe in and whatever for, in this day and age there are still people that believe the Earth is no more than 10,000 years old. What are those bastards smoking?

also.

Is it about time for a concerted fightback against all religion by atheists?

[watterinja]

What is wrong with knowing that God exists?

[ChiangMai noon]

What is wrong with knowing that God exists?

What do you mean by God?

Are you referring to a personal supernatural God?

If so, prove it exists.

[watterinja]

What is wrong with knowing that God exists?

Are you referring to a personal supernatural God?

If so, prove it exists.

You only need look around you to see that the universe was designed by a superior being. Christians call Him the Creator. The level of intricate detail & perfection could never be attributed to pure statistical chance - it is there by design.

Do you believe in the Bible?

[ChiangMai noon]

Do you believe in the Bible?

what a strange question.

as a physical object, of course I do.

[barbaro]

What is wrong with knowing that God exists?

This is going back to "faith," watterinja.

And don't use the word "know," because you don't.

[MeMock]

Looks like when we finally catch up nooners we wont be lacking for conversation then

[Texpat]

Religion gives many people comfort.

If that means they'll be less of an asshole around me, go for it.

As long as they're not trying to proselytize or convert me, I don't care what they believe.

Just because I don't share their ideas, doesn't mean I should feel compelled to expose them as frauds.

Much the same how I feel about queers.

[ChiangMai noon]

Looks like when we finally catch up nooners we wont be lacking for conversation then

that's true.


care to add anything to the debate then?

[watterinja]

What is wrong with knowing that God exists?

This is going back to "faith," watterinja.

And don't use the word "know," because you don't.

It's an odd thing, this word know.

I've been a Christian for some 31 years, all told. I gave my heart to Jesus when I was 17 years old. Over the years He has moulded me, & built me up. Life has not been easy, in the least, but He has always been there at my side. I've been through many dangers, but He has always pulled me through.

I firmly concur with the psalmist (David) in Psalm 23, where he calls God - my Shepherd. After so many years of 'knowing' God intimately in this way, I feel that we have become more progressively intertwined. Without Him, I'd rather be dead.

Do I 'know' God - yes, I'd like to believe that I do - in some small measure.

[ChiangMai noon]

He has always pulled me through.

so you are saying that God is an omnipresent being for good?

a personal God that cares for YOU.

I could probably fill an encycloaedias worth of evidence to say that was not the case.

the evidence is all around us.

what makes you special?

[CharleyFarley]

I remember praying to God when I was eleven to pass that exam that put you in secondary or grammar school, I passed, but who knows whether God had anything to do with it?

[Bugs]

My TD signature is quoted by Mr. Dawkins in his book. “The God Delusion” to date that is the best book of it’s kind that I have ever read.

Christopher Hitchens has done some similar stuff, but it bogs down a bit IMHO. Sam Harris has done some similar stuff, “The End of Faith” IMHO was clouded up too much by Mr. Harris’s points of view and did not stay on topic – drug laws, abortion issues, Islam vs Christian, etc. Mr. Harris did a short follow-up called “Letter to a Christian Nation” that was much better.

I give my sister a bit of a hard time about taking her young kids to church because I think it boarders on child abuse – basically indoctrinating the youth of America to believe in a fairy tail. If adults want to believe in make-believe that is one thing, but to take young children with impressionable minds and feed it to them on a weekly basis needs to stop.

[ChiangMai noon]

Christopher Hitchens has done some similar stuff, but it bogs down a bit IMHO.

must admit, I gave up on God is not Great and skipped a lot.

[watterinja]

He has always pulled me through.

a personal God that cares for YOU.

God loved us so much that He sent His only son to die for us. That's pretty amazing when you think about it.

In essence, the fact that Jesus died on a cross - paying the price for our sins so that we might have eternal life - is the main core message of the Bible. The rest is interesting, but the crux is Jesus' sacrifice.

Interestingly-enough, Jesus was the one who actually did the main task of creating the universe - Genesis 1, John 1, I John 1, Hebrews 1. Pretty amazing that he was prepared to die in our behalf.

I don't usually get into a habit of Bible-punching, or typical religious debates - manly because the relationship I've had with The Creator all these years has been very personal. It is up to each individual to decide whether to accept what Jesus did in our behalf. Our final destination is based upon that decision. I firmly believe that I will be in God's presence upon my passing on.

It's kind of personal, eh. Not easy to change someone's thoughts on the matter. I could not imagine how empty it must be to be an Athiest. A real tough, lonely call, that one.

[MeMock]

Looks like when we finally catch up nooners we wont be lacking for conversation then

care to add anything to the debate then?

Nope, you already know where I stand. You are just looking for a fight at the moment.

[ChiangMai noon]

God loved us so much that He sent His only son to die for us. That's pretty amazing when you think about it.

Do you actually believe that Watty??

Reliance on faith rather than thought is a bit unusual for a scientist is it not.

You are just looking for a fight at the moment.

I aim to find out why anybody in their right mind would believe in a supernatural, personal god.

to tell me that he exists with no shred of evidence is a bit crap really.

If I told you I believed in fairies at the bottom of the garden, i would consider the onus to be on me to prove it were true.

[MeMock]

to tell me that he exists with no shred of evidence is a bit crap really.

To call me and Diaw a liar is a bit crap actually.

How do you know their is no proof, there is tons of it out there.

[ChiangMai noon]

there is tons of it out there

where?

not a shred.

i rather thought you'd get defensive.
christians tend to do that when questioned about their faith..... it's all they have to offer at the end of the day.

most rational people demand a bit more evidence than 'because the bible says so.'

and where on earth did I call you a liar.

i am questioning your faith.

if there's tonnes of evidence out there, show me.

i can show you a fair few reams of evidence that the world is several billion years older than you think it is.

[MeMock]

Actually I am not at all nooners, I am chuckling away as I type this as I have no intention of going any further with this ON TD twith you. When I finally meet you I would love to talk it over though.

How do you know there is no evidence? Contradicting yourself a little bit arent you? You say it is crap that I say he exists with no evidence but you say there is no evidence with what backing? You have no evidence there is no evidence

[chitown]

Can i ask you a question CMN? Ok I know I can

Why all the hate and attacks on Christians here? I see you and others come to the defense of Muslims, and Buddhists, but it seems Christians are hated. You may say that Christians force religion on people, but if you really look at they don't. When you are walking down the street, you see Muslims and Buddhists monks dressed a certain way according to their faith. You see Sharia law and religious laws in Muslim countries. Buddhism is forced on kids in the Thai schools.

Where is the outcry and hate of that?

Can you tell by looking at a Christian that he is a Christian? Maybe a priest, but most Christians I know worship God in a personal way and don't try to force anyone to convert.

Also. I have yet to see a post here attacking or name calling an atheist for his position.

[melvbot]

I didnt have a religious upbringing, the only reason I went to church was to sing in the choir which didnt last long. I had an OK voice but preferred football.

I dont believe in a "God" that created the universe and that the earth has only been around for 10,000 or so years but one thing that I hear with regards to religion is that people draw strength from having something to believe in. I personally draw strength in times of good or bad from music, maybe thats my religion.

If someone wants to believe in a God then go for it, like Tex said as long as you dont push your beliefs on me Im quite happy for you to believe what you want even if I think youre a loony for doing so.

[ChiangMai noon]

I see you and others come to the defense of Muslims, and Buddhists, but it seems Christians are hated. You may say that Christians force religion on people, but if you really look at they don't. When you are walking down the street, you see Muslims and Buddhists monks dressed a certain way according to their faith. You see Sharia law and religious laws in Muslim countries. Buddhism is forced on kids in the Thai schools.

oh no.

i dislike each and every organised religion.

not one, more than any other.

just thought it was a question best adressed to christians because we have a few of them on here and they effectively believe in the same thing, which is some sort of supernatural being


macha is our only muslim and he isn't around at the moment.

[chitown]

You and I get along quite well.

We have net and had dinner, exchanged PM's and talked through posts.

Do you think I am a nutter?

[Boon Mee]

Religion gives many people comfort.

If that means they'll be less of an asshole around me, go for it.

As long as they're not trying to proselytize or convert me, I don't care what they believe.

Just because I don't share their ideas, doesn't mean I should feel compelled to expose them as frauds.

Much the same how I feel about queers.

Got that right.
Ain't nothin' wrong with believing in a Supreme Architect of the Universe.

What's worse in my opinion than some Bible-thumpers is the çonvinced' atheist doing his annoying proselytizing to believe in nothing...