Thread: US National Health Care (split from Colin Powel thread)

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Hatter, Bugs and Norts have explained the finer points to you, so I won't respond to your post about taxes.

Thanks, anyway

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

And, Driving Force, when I mentioned the "cold", I meant the signs of slight everyday illnesses that occur initially in terminally ill people and was in reference to my post about thus. I have never gone to the doc for simple colds, flu or even dengue fever. And, contrary to hatter's claim, my heart indeed goes out to you for the suffering you endured along with your wife's illness. It is never easy to watch a loved one slip away.

I knew what you meant....which is why I said that, my meaning is that there are many that do without regard to the possibility of what they might actually find and either don't consider that out of ignorance or naivety or out of obliviousness of what they will face if it is something more serious...Bottom line I couldn't even if wanted too because I am neither oblivious nor financially endowed well enough to accept the outcome nor am I alone..

thanks for your other sentiments but when you consider what I have said above hopefully you can understand how that has adversely affected everything in my life I currently struggle with.. and there are millions of others who do also, they have earned it but now they have no backup for themselves having burned all of their resources for teh attempt at saving their loved one, the thing not being considered here is the very real possibility of multiple catastrophic illnesses in one family, what is a person supposed to do??

Low taxes = low services. If thats what the Yanks want, they have have it.

Originally Posted by Panda

Low taxes = low services. If thats what the Yanks want, they have have it.

That's not the way it works in the US.

Annual deficits, and fuzzy math.

Originally Posted by Panda

Low taxes = low services. If thats what the Yanks want, they have have it.

Not quite quite.

Low taxes = low government-supplied, inflated priced, bureaucratic, slow, inefficient services.

Why would the US rely on a beast the size of the federal government to administer health care?

States/Counties are far better prepared to do it.

Would you endorse a plan for a Europe-wide health care plan -- to include the Baltic states?

Quote: Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon View Post His healthcare plan is flawed. Healthy folks would pay the same as sick folks, and the govt will control pricing, rather than let competition keep prices down...

This comment is sorely lacking

First, the purpose of insurance is to spread the risk. A healthy person can require extensive medical care if hit by an uninsured car etc. Who can predict health?

Jet has obviously never purchased individual coverage otherwise she would not be so ignorant as to non-competitive markets in insurance and health care. If there was any possibility of competition reducing prices then surely at least one person in the entire country could purchase an individual plan and save money over their group plan. I challenge anyone, especially those ignorant about competitive markets, to find such a person.

The choice is to eliminate all group plans or provide everyone with a group plan which is the original reason to have insurance in the first place - to be part of a group to minimize risk.

There are many ways to solve this problem, none involve groups vs individuals competing for the same services be it insurance or medical coverage.

Originally Posted by jim1176

The choice is to eliminate all group plans or provide everyone with a group plan which is the original reason to have insurance in the first place - to be part of a group to minimize risk.

Yes, but does everyone pay the same for coverage? Or does a CEO pay more than the unemployed beggar? I've said before, in the US, you carry your own bags. If that doesn't suit your lifestyle, get a job or get lost.

There are many ways to solve this problem, none involve groups vs individuals competing for the same services be it insurance or medical coverage.

Hospitals and pharmaceuticals are in competition too. That's part of the problem. But giving carte blance medical care to the masses is just wrong. It'll become a mess like .... well, you know.

France, Britain, Cuba...?

Originally Posted by Texpat

But giving carte blance medical care to the masses is just wrong.

I'm sure your ex-colleagues in the US military will be well pleased to hear that.

The efficient private sector vs. bloated government sector argument is an old one, that would certainly be more compelling if the facts backed it up. Inconveniently however, the average American spends a higher percentage of his income on lean, mean private sector health care than the citizens of any other advanced nation. The Private sector, in reality, is not the panacea for all things- indeed, as every visiting businessman knows, the cost of heath insurance in the US is a cost of doing business there- it equates to about a 100% loading compared to if you travel anywhere else but not the USA. This indeed shows how efficient the private sector is- at extracting money from your pocket.

It will certainly be a massive excercise to reform the US health care system, and given the budgetary constraints the presumptive Obama government will face, I have to wonder at what pace it will proceed. Insurance and litigation costs are at the heart of it, indeed. Proceed it will however, as the overwhelming majority support it. Given the substantial vested interests that will be fighting for their patch, which means resisting imperatives to make health care more affordable and available (I believe it was their lobbyists that succeded in sinking the Hillary initiatives), I reckon this may turn out to be quite a long saga.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Originally Posted by jim1176

The choice is to eliminate all group plans or provide everyone with a group plan which is the original reason to have insurance in the first place - to be part of a group to minimize risk.

Yes, but does everyone pay the same for coverage? Or does a CEO pay more than the unemployed beggar? I've said before, in the US, you carry your own bags. If that doesn't suit your lifestyle, get a job or get lost.

There are many ways to solve this problem, none involve groups vs individuals competing for the same services be it insurance or medical coverage.

Hospitals and pharmaceuticals are in competition too. That's part of the problem. But giving carte blance medical care to the masses is just wrong. It'll become a mess like .... well, you know.

I might agree with you except for the fact that it is already a mess and we give free care to the poor already. It is the working man who is now left out of the current system, not the CEO and not the poor. The current system is the worst of both worlds. By working man I mean a self employed individual or someone working for a small company, not public jobs - teacher, cop etc - or other union jobs sponging off the system. In the current system a garbage man gets a better medical plan than an airline pilot. Why should someone who delivers my mail or picks up my garbage have access to better health care than is available to me, the taxpayer?

Cause you're afraid to increase your rates to cover you and your family.

If it's too much, petition your government. Those fuckers can work wonders.

If you're too lazy and reticent to fight for your protections, you deserve what you have coming.

I'll repeat: Exorbitant heath care costs ore out of control. Call your local congressman and remind them who calls the shots.


If you can't see that free health care is a political endeavor, pandering for votes, we need not continue.

Originally Posted by Texpat

I'll repeat: Exorbitant heath care costs ore out of control. Call your local congressman and remind them who calls the shots. If you can't see that free health care is a political endeavor, pandering for votes, we need not continue.

The fact is as you state it "Exorbitant heath care costs ore out of control" and is well known by all including congress.

As for your second point - "If you can't see that free health care is a political endeavor, pandering for votes" - The poor already have free care as I stated previously.

How do you get health insurance if you have it Tex? I suspect you are not buying health insurance for yourself or you would not have this view.

Damn it -- busted.

I'm a free-loading, pay-nothing miserable drain on the system.

Get a real job and you might join me.
Fuck around for 20 years and try to claim you're a victim and fuck off.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Damn it -- busted. I'm a free-loading, pay-nothing miserable drain on the system.

You said it best

Originally Posted by Texpat

Get a real job and you might join me.

you mean like financial advisor or somethin like that?