Thread: Conversion from Islam!

There are some knowledgable members of this forum.
So I would like to ask the questions. What does the koran, Hadith or Sharia say about conversion from Islam and what is the penalty?

Death !!

I think the only way out of the Islam deal is to die.

As far as I can fathom it's apostasy to even consider that...looks like once a muslim it's for life - one way or t'other.

the penalty for leaving the cult of islam is DEATH

Sounds like a real tolerant and peaceful religion...

Originally Posted by good2bhappy

There are some knowledgable members of this forum.
So I would like to ask the questions. What does the koran, Hadith or Sharia say about conversion from Islam and what is the penalty?

Interesting, but possibly misleading question. Off hand, for example, I can't quite put my finger on the correct Church proceedure to stop being a Xtian, for example, in the regards of what is the process laid down by the church.

So the practical answer I suppose is one stops being a muslim in the same way that one stops being a Xtian - by ceasing to believe.

But I am sure you are not fishing for a practical answer. I believe Islamic law has no provision for converting to another faith - Muslims do of course convert, they go to a church or tabernacle and start to practice that religion, and in most cases there is no further implications.

Muslims seeking to, shall we say "officially" leave the religion in countries where there is some form of islamic law have a much harder path, and indeed its not allowed. In malaysia (which has a bollixed up mix of civil and islamic law) the only cases that i can recall where by some one has been allowed to legally change thier religion are converts TO islam who have managed to convince the sharia court that the conversion was in some way 'faulty" and so the conversion is 'annulled" rather than the convert being allowed to convert out. Off hand I can think of no case of a person born into the religion being "officially" allowed to convert out - and indeed - if a muslim DID convert out (by getting Christened for example), there would be penalties imposed.

The Koran says nothing about this although these verses have been interpreted by many as an injunction to kill apostates.

"They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein."

"Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first? What! Fear ye them? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believer."

Sharia law generally agrees that male apostates should be executed and comes down pretty heavily on the side of whacking the chicks too, the shiites, being much more tolerant, believe she should just be locked up until she changes her mind. There is some scholarly disagreement on whether execution for apostasy is sanctioned or not but I would say that the vast majority of scholars believe it is.

There's an interesting Q&A session with an Islamic scholar about apostasy in Islam here;
http://www.islamonline.net/livedialo...GuestID=Gz9HCK

What if the muzzie wants to become a joo?
Can he do that in the mosque or ... city hall?

What if a muzzie wants to remain a muzzie but just wants to cast aside any belief in the prophet Mohammed and the whole Allah thingy?

If you think Mohammed was a damn good heavyweight champ -- can you join?

Originally Posted by Texpat

If you think Mohammed was a damn good heavyweight champ -- can you join?

Sure can. Many probably have. Note in the US, there have been Muslims that have converted to other religions with no problems. I think the country and it's laws have more to do with it than the laws of the "religion".

It's when "Sharia Law" and "National Law" are the same or shared the problem exists.

Yes Cassius Clay was a Muslim man wasn't he. Now how did we let that happen? Them damn, intolerant, racist, bigoted rednecks are slipping, I tell ya.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Yes Cassius Clay was a Muslim man wasn't he.

You're making an Obama slip. Cassius was a Christian. He is now a, you know... an unmentionable.

I'm going to post this question on that Islamic site I joined.

Curious how all the same expert ignoramuses come to the fore to vent their spleen when references from the Koran or Hadiths are asked for.

Originally Posted by Texpat

What if the muzzie wants to become a joo?
Can he do that in the mosque or ... city hall?

I don't think mosques are the places where one seeks acceptance into Judaism. LOL

Depending on which country one is in (legislation is not uniform across the world, if you did not know this), a city hall might be where one registers a change of confession.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Texpat

Yes Cassius Clay was a Muslim man wasn't he.

You're making an Obama slip. Cassius was a Christian. He is now a, you know... an unmentionable.

Oh, my God - you mean he's actually..........black????

We'll have to see how it plays out for Obama.

In 1992, two teenagers in Riyadh publicly announced that they did not want to be Muslims any longer. They were taken to Chop Square, were given a Saudi haircut and became dead Muslims!
Back in 1980, I was offered the equivalent of around £15,000 to revert to Islam. I say 'revert' because I was told that we are all born Muslim!

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

I'm going to post this question on that Islamic site I joined.

I joined a couple of Muslim forums a couple of years ago.

I was posing as a non-muslim whose parents were Muslim but immigrated, and I was posting question claiming I was thinking of converting.

I signed up on about 3 of those forums.

Some weirdos, that is for sure.

After a Muslims farts they perform a cleansing ritual. Nutters. Utter, nutters.

Couldn't be the fact that internet forums attract nutters in the first place and that all the non-farting Muslims were down the pub?

Originally Posted by mr_hippo

In 1992, two teenagers in Riyadh publicly announced that they did not want to be Muslims any longer. They were taken to Chop Square, were given a Saudi haircut and became dead Muslims!
Back in 1980, I was offered the equivalent of around £15,000 to revert to Islam. I say 'revert' because I was told that we are all born Muslim!

The authorities should've allowed them to convert first, then kill infidels instead of their own.

Bet they're kicking themselves.

Originally Posted by keda

The authorities should've allowed them to convert first, then kill infidels instead of their own.

On the other hand it shows, that if a muslim just is thinking loud about converting, then it's chop chop....

I wish that Cat Stevens would renounce Islam. His music turned to complete sh*t after he converted. Even with all of the knuckleheads in the entertainment biz, 'brother Yusef' was the only one stupid enough to become a Muslim by his own volition. But I suppose he wouldn't want to be chased around London by sword-wielding lunatics for the rest of his life (after all, 40% of England's Muslims want to live under Sharia law). What a waste of great talent.

09/15/08 Amnesty International demands release of Christian arrested in Iran Source: Amnesty International

Ramtin Soodmand, a Christian who works for a church in Tehran and with youth groups,was arrested on 20 August. He is at risk of torture or other ill-treatment and is being held in an unknown location. He is a prisoner of conscience and should be released immediately as he has been detained solely for his religious beliefs.

On 17 August, Ramtin Soodmand received a call from Ministry of Intelligence officials. The officials told him to report to the Ministry of Intelligence office in Mashhad, north-east Iran. Ramtin Soodmand told them that he could see no reason why the officials in Mashhad might want to interview him as he lives in Tehran, but eventually he agreed to go.

Ramtin Soodmand has not been seen since he went to the Ministry of Intelligence office in Mashhad on 20 August. Since being detained he has been able to make three short phone calls to his family. On or around 24 August, he made a phone call to his mother, who lives in Mashhad. He then made a second call to both his mother and wife on 31 August. The third call was to his wife on 6 September. On all three occasions, he did not say where he was being held.

His family have visited the Ministry of Intelligence frequently but have been unable to obtain any information on his whereabouts or legal status. The Ministry of Intelligence officials claim that his case is still under investigation.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION


Ramtin Soodmand's father, Reverend Hossein Soodmand, was a Muslim who converted to Christianity in the 1960s, and became a Protestant pastor in Mashhad. He was hanged on 3 December 1990 in a prison in Mashhad after being convicted of apostasy; see Iran: Arrest and execution of a Christian pastor (Index: MDE 13/030/1990). He was also featured in Amnesty International's Annual Report 1991.

Christianity is a recognized religion in Iran, but evangelical Christians often experience harassment by the authorities. In recent months, since May, there has been an increase in the number of Christians arrested. Most of the arrests have taken place in Bandar Abbas, capital city of the Hormozgan province, Esfahan in central Iran, Sanandaj in north-west Iran and Kermanshah in western Iran.

Article 23 of the Iranian Constitution states: "The investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief." Under Article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), to which Iran is a state party, "Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching."

Iran Parliament passes bill establishing death penalty for apostasy

Tehran: September 16, 2008. Muhammad would have approved. Islamic Tolerance Alert from the Islamic Republic: "Iran Parliament Passes Death Penalty for Apostasy Bill," from the Christian Post, September 11.

The Iranian Parliament voted in favor of a bill Tuesday that would punish apostasy with the death penalty, a human rights group reported. Lawmakers approved the bill with 196 votes in favor, seven against, and two abstentions, according to U.K.-based Christian Solidarity Worldwide. The draft bill seeks to add several crimes to the list of acts that would result in execution, including "establishing weblogs and sites promoting corruption, prostitution, and apostasy."

CSW advocacy director Alexa Papadouris commented, "It is deeply worrying to hear that just days after Matin-Azad and Basirat have been charged with apostasy at a court in Shiraz, the Iranian Parliament is debating a bill that could codify the death penalty for someone choosing their own religion."

Mahmoud Mohammad Matin-Azad, 53, and Arash Ahmad-Ali Basirat, 40, are Christian-converts from Islam who were charged with apostasy last week at the Public and Revolutionary Court in Shiraz, Iran. They are currently awaiting the court's verdict and have been detained since May 15.

In August, there were five known arrests of Iranian Christians in three cities by authorities, according to the persecution watchdog agency Compass Direct News. Among those arrested was Ramtin Soodmand, who is the son of the last Christian convert to be executed for leaving Islam, on Aug. 21.

Soodmand's father, Hossein Soodmand, was an Assemblies of God pastor who was executed by the state in 1990 under the false charge of working as an American spy. Since Soodmand's death, six other Protestant pastors have been assassinated by unknown assailants....