Thread: The Troubles

Nice lesson Dr Bob
You have corrected me, Thought it was connaught but Leinster it is.
The original knights were from wales under strongbow, just wanted land like all good flemish/welsh knights/men at arms wanted. just to paint the picture a little greyer.
But hell im English

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

But for some ironic (some might say tragic) reason, Ireland did not seem to get the best of the British Empire. Like bad blood in a family, England could've treated its poetic and pugilistic cousin a little better, but didn't, perhaps because the Irish and English are much more similar then they'd like to admit.

That's true. They seem to be fairing much better under the EU though.

All Catholics should have been drowned at birth.No more problems.

Next!

They do.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

One of the reasons I no longer live in Ireland is the transformation of the country over the last 20 years, probably, all in all, a transformation for the better, feeling like an alien in my own land I decided it would be a lot better to be an alien in an alien land.

What are the reasons you feel this way, DrB0b?

I actually met Dev's granddaughter who is also a politician. She was complaining about the number of foreigners taking over the country. I thought it quite ironic given her family history (grandfather half Spanish and born in America).

I'm not that young. I think that feeling like an alien in your own country is called growing old. As David Bowie once said, "all the strangers came today, and it looks if though they're here to stay."

The early 19th Century was only relatively peaceful. After the 1798 rebellion there was still sporadic violence throughout the country and, in 1803, there was a minor rebellion led by Robert Emmet, a follower of the philosophy of the United Irishmen. The remaining Penal Laws against Catholics were abolished after the Act of Union. The Act of Union had initially been supported by the majority of Irish Catholics as they had been promised Catholic Emancipation on the passing of the Act. George III, however, blocked Catholic Emancipation as he eblieved it would violate the terms of his coronation oath. Emancipation, although not total, was finally granted in 1829. Even though most of the restrictions on Catholics were then removed Catholics still had tp apy a tithe to the protestand Anglican. This tithing, the broken promise, and the slow pace of reform led to great bitterness amongst Irish Catholics which broke out in the "Tithe War" of the 1830's.

One of the Penal Laws stipulated that land owned by a catholic must be divided evenly among his sons after his death, this, combined with wholesale confiscations of land to provide estates for English settlers resulted in an enormous decrease in the amount of land available for cultivation by the Catholic peasantry, the vast majority of the population. Catholic holdings had been reduced to such an extent that the native population could not grow enough food to support their families. There was only one crop that would grow in such a small area and still provide enough nourishment to sustain life, the potato.

At this time Ireland, according to the Act of Union an integral and equal part of the United Kingdom, electing representatives to the House of Commons, and directly governed from Westminster was described by French sociologist, Gustave de Beaumont,

"I have seen the Indian in his forests, and the Negro in his chains, and thought, as I contemplated their pitiable condition, that I saw the very extreme of human wretchedness; but I did not then know the condition of unfortunate Ireland...In all countries, more or less, paupers may be discovered; but an entire nation of paupers is what was never seen until it was shown in Ireland."

After the Act of Union Britain and Ireland led to Ireland's economy being absorbed by Britain. The Industrial Revolution, in full swing in Britain, was never implemented in Ireland outside the Northern Irish urban areas of Belfast and Derry. Industrialization in Britain led to a rapid increase in the production of cheap goods in Britain and subsequent dumping of excess goods on the Irish market leading to the decline and virtual extinction of the only industry in Ireland which offered an escape from the land, hand-made textiles. The British "Poor Enquiry" of 1835 stated that 75% of Ireland's Catholic population had been reduced to begging in order to survive.

The potato blight was caused by a fungus, Phylophtera Infestans, and struck Europe in 1844 causing food shortages throughout the continent. It was only in Ireland, reduced to utter dependence on this single crop, that it caused disaster. In 1845 half the potato crop succumbed to the blight, in 1846 and 1847 the crop failed almost totally. By 1846 Ireland was on the brink of a famine that in terms of proportional population death was and is unparallelled in history. During the years of famine Ireland had no shortage of food, wheat, oats, cattle, and other crops were exported to Britain and Europe but these crops were grown on the estates of the English landowners in Ireland the vast majority of whom refused to see their profits reduced by helping the starving native population. The famine was caused by nature but horrific effects of the famine had their roots in social causes.

The British government initially refused to send aid to the Irish people (British citizens) because "they would use the money to buy guns" and "free food would only make them reluctant to be self sufficient". American quakers organised a relief effort, attempting to send shiploads of food to Ireland, but the British government insisted that relief supplies should be unloaded in mainland Britain rather than in Ireland to provide income for Britains shipping interests. The American press was outraged by this and, in a campaign agains what they saw as the British governments greed, asked "How could England be so greedy when thousands of her own people are starving?". An English author of the time, C.W. Smith, said

"It is not characteristic of the English to behave as they behaved in Ireland. As a nation, the English have proved themselves of generosity, tolerance, and magnanimity, but not when Ireland is concerned. The moment the very name of Ireland is mentioned, the English seem to bid adieu to common feeling, common prudence, and common sense, and to act with the barbarity of tyrants and the fatuity of idiots."

British economic policy at the time was based on laissez-faire principles and the British government refused to intervene in Ireland, saying the market would fix itself. However there was no market as the starving had no money and thus no access to the vast stocks of food which were kept in the country. In desperation people flocked to the cities creating epidemics of Typhoid, Cholera, and Dysentry (collectively called Famine Fever at the time) in which hundreds of thousands more died.

In 1847 Britain finally started relief efforts in Ireland, settng up soup kitchens and workhouses. In total 2.6 million entered the workhouses during the famine years, 200,000 of them died there. Hundred of thousands of smallholders and peasants, unable to pay their rents, were evicted by their English landlords and turned out on to the roads where the vast majority of them died. This was not only through callousness, although that was at time one cause, it was mainly because the poor-laws which provided relief for the poor raised funds by taxing landlords based on the number of tenants on their land. As poor-law taxes increased landlords who could no longer afford to pay the increasing tariffs evicted tenants who ould not pay their rents, the increasing number of the destitute pushed up the poor-law tax leading to more evictions, a true viscious circle. It should be noted that many landlords did all they could to aid their tenants. Make-work projects were set up in which people were paid to build roads that went nowhere, walls in the middle of bogs, ditches by the sea. Workers were paid in arrears and many died of starvation and exhaustion before they received their first weeks pay, for the rest the pay was too low to buy enough food to sustain life for their families and they too perished.

While it would be wrong to blame the British government (under Sir Robert Peel) at the start of the famine for inadequate aid it is generally acknowledged by historians that the subsequent government under Lord Russel mismanaged things so badly, through a combination of ignorance, mismanagement, callousness, and anti-Irish prejudice, that they bear the blame for many of the deaths through starvation and disease. Queen Victoria and the Royal Family donated large amounts of money to famine relief, a fact remembered by the Irish who turned out en-masse to celebrate her jubilees.

The fact remains though, that while the famine is not a black and white issue, the social causes and the inadequacy of relief efforts were the result of British policies and, as noted throughout the world at the time, for a government to do so little to aid it's own citizens was a disgrace. The famine, more than anything else, was responsible for the antipathy between the dispossessed Irish and their English overlords flaring into active hatred. The native attitude was summed up by John Mitchell, an Irish journalist of the time, an attitude which persisted for generations;

"The Almighty indeed sent the potato blight but the English created the famine...a million and half men, women and children were carefully, prudently and peacefully slain by the English government. They died of hunger in the midst of abundance which their own hands created"

This hatred did not translate into a hatred for the English people, or even wholly of English institutions, English political parties, the Royal Family, even the Empire, remained popular. The hatred was for the treatment of the Irish people as second-class citizens and for their depiction as brutish, stupid, sub-humans whose deaths were a blessing in disguise, the Irish of the time were aware that that was not generally the attitude of the English and most of them apportioned blame only on those, like Lord Russell, who they felt had failed them, rejoiced in, or ignored their suffering. This loss of faith led to an increased agitation for, initially, land reform, them home-rule, and finally independence.

In particular memories of the famine lingered among the emigrants, especially those who emigrated to America where it is still a potent force in the Irish-American community.

PERCENTAGE DECLINE IN POPULATION BY REGION: 1841-51
Leinster 15.3%
Munster 22.5%
Ulster 15.7%
Connacht 28.8%
Table from Joe Lee, The Modernisation of Irish Society (Gill History of Ireland Series No.10) p.2

Population of Ireland in 1845: 8,400,000 (estimate)
Population of Ireland in 2006: 4,234,925

The OP mentions the current situation in Ireland. As a contrast with the rather depressing historical stuuf I've posted so far I want to post this from wiki showing a much brighter situation in the present.

Ireland (Irish: Éire, pronounced [ˈeːrʲə]) is a country in north-western Europe. The modern sovereign state occupies five-sixths of the island of Ireland, which was partitioned in 1921. It is bordered by Northern Ireland (part of the United Kingdom) to the north, by the Atlantic Ocean to the west and by the Irish Sea to the east. Legally, the term Republic of Ireland (Irish: Poblacht na hÉireann) is the description of the state but Ireland is its name.[2]

Ireland is one of the richest, most developed and peaceful countries on earth, having the fifth highest Gross Domestic Product per capita, second highest Gross Domestic Product (Purchasing Power Parity) per capita and having the fifth highest Human Development Index rank. The country also boasts the highest quality of life in the world, ranking first in the Economist Intelligence Unit’s Quality-of-life index. Ireland was ranked fourth on the Global Peace Index.

The state also has high rankings for its education system, political freedom and civil rights, press freedom and economic freedom; it was also ranked fourth from the bottom on the Failed States Index, being one of the few "sustainable" states in the world.

The state is a member of the EU, the OECD and the UN. The State's policy of neutrality means it is not a member of NATO. Ireland's population is the fastest growing in Europe, with an annual growth rate of 2.5%.

^ It doesn't mention the poor rugby team though, so it's a bit unbalanced.