Thread: A note of caution for those with deposits in US Banks

I have an account with Neuberger Berman and it is 'business as usual' there.

^^Good luck to them on that.

^Good luck on that too.

Butterfly - as usual, you predictions were way off. $613Bn debt registered in the filing - an all-time record. Share prices on Dow down 275, rather than up as you said.

Originally Posted by Panda

Are we headed into economic meltdown or is all this just an adjustment in the monetary system?

Complete meltdown. Next go Washington Mutual and AIG in US and B&B and HBOS in UK. Just like I said. Why not re-read my OP and following posts posted in February...

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

If you think that this is business as usual, then I would hate to work where you work!

ok another example of you not reading or understanding the articles you are posting

Originally Posted by WSJ

Lehman said none of the broker-dealer subsidiaries or other subsidiaries of LBHI will be included in the Chapter 11 filing and all of the broker-dealers will continue to operate. Customers of Lehman Brothers, including customers of its wholly owned subsidiary, Neuberger Berman Holdings LLC, may continue to trade or take other actions with respect to their accounts, Lehman said.

and

Originally Posted by WSJ

The Lehman board authorized the filing of the Chapter 11 petition in order to protect its assets and maximize value, the firm said. In conjunction with the filing, Lehman intends to file a variety of first-day motions that will allow it to continue to manage operations in the ordinary course. Those motions include requests to make wage and salary payments and continue other benefits to its employees.

and

Originally Posted by WSJ

Lehman said it is exploring the sale of its broker-dealer operations and, as previously announced, is in advanced discussions with a number of potential purchasers to sell its Investment Management Division. Lehman said it intends to pursue those discussions as well as a number of other strategic alternatives. Neuberger Berman LLC and Lehman Brothers Asset Management will continue to conduct business as usual and will not be subject to the bankruptcy case of the parent company, and its portfolio management, research and operating functions remain intact. In addition, fully paid securities of customers of Neuberger Berman are segregated from the assets of Lehman Brothers and aren't subject to the claims of Lehman Brothers Holdings' creditors, Lehman said.

You utter muppet.

Business as usual, just without the staff?


FTAdviser.com - Lehman's Canary Wharf staff sent home "en masse"
Lehman's Canary Wharf staff sent home "en masse"


Staff at Lehman Brother's Canary Wharf office have been sent home "en masse" with only a skeleton staff retained to pack up boxes and "tie up loose ends".

A source at the investment house told FTAdviser staff had turned up to work this morning (15 September) and been told to go home as there was "nothing left to do".

He said: "Managers are just sending staff home and we have been made redundant en masse. Some people are being retained to clear up things and tie up the odd loose financial end, but there is no point hanging around and just waiting for the inevitable.

"To say it's gloomy here would be an understatement. The departments left behind are just sitting there waiting their turn".

However, a spokesman for the beleaguered investment house said: "No one has been sent home officially and there is no obligation on staff to go home.
"Obviously some people have decided to leave as they have to sort their stuff out. Things are proceeding in a very departmental way and things are being packed up."

The move comes after Lehman filed a petition for Chapter 11 in the US.
In a statement to the stock exchange, the board of directors of Lehman Brothers stated they authorised the filing of the petition in order to protect its assets and maximize value.

In response, the Financial Services Authority (FSA) said it was "working closely with the US authorities to ensure an orderly wind down of its principal UK trading subsidiary, Lehman Brothers International (Europe), which was placed into administration earlier this morning".

The regulator added: "The FSA is working with market practitioners, including the London Clearing House (LCH), to ensure the process connected with the winding down of this wholesale business is completed in an orderly manner to minimise any market disruption."

Butterfly is like that Iraqi spokesman in Gulf War 2, who, despite the gunfire and tank noise and the fact that a foreign correspondent pointed out US military within sight, insisted that Iraq was winning the war and pushing back the septics to the border!

They are bust, broke, game over, insert coin. The players have gone home and are drowning their sorrows. When will this sink in? Why are you some sort of capitalist apologist now?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

It would seem that LBH failure is also coming from its OTC operations, that is Swaps, Forwards, Customized Options and other derivatives that were engaged to protect and edge against different assets, notably MBS, CMOs and other asset backed securities.

Breaking up the company seems to be the only option at this stage, that will cleanup the books and it will make the recovery of those assets easier. Might not be as bad as it is reported.

Anyway, Chapter 11 is there to protect the corporation during restructuring.

Yep, minus the staff. They have gone home with their cardboard boxes and folorn faces.

I did Butterfly the honour of inserting the smilie in his post to save his blushes.

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I bet the markets will go up now

Wrong FTSE down 154 at time of posting. DOW futures at around -300 most of the day thus far.

-321 right now.
i don't think butterfly is way off base here. over the last two months or so it's seemed that if futures were down significantly, then the market closed up or close to even.

i'm not saying that's going to happen today--in fact, i'm positioned for it not to (sh, qid)--but i wouldn't be totally shocked if at the end of the day we're near friday's close . IMO we're on a long trip down...but today? who knows?

Ray - its down from here. Really.

Originally Posted by raycarey

and btw, where does AIG get the balls to ask for help from the fed?
why aren't all the free market folks up in arms?
oh yeah...with this crowd, losses are socialized.

Completely correct. Today I noticed AIG sponser not only the shirts of Man Utd, but the TV channel on the Skytrain, BBC worldwide and F1.

Fuk off with that before asking for taxpayers dosh!

Originally Posted by who

I have an account with Neuberger Berman and it is 'business as usual' there.

I have an account with NB &b B.

Who cares?

It's not about you or me.

I am a long term holder who won't liquidate for another 30+ years.

Originally Posted by Milkman

I am a long term holder who won't liquidate for another 30+ years.

if you avoid sclirossis that long, you will have deserved it.

^^NB won't have their client accounts raided yet, as they are the 'jewel in the crown' and will be sold. I still wouldn't leave any uninsured funds just lying around right now either.

Just wait and see what tomorrow brings. And the next day, and the next.........

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

^^NB won't have their client accounts raided yet, as they are the 'jewel in the crown' and will be sold. I still wouldn't leave any uninsured funds just lying around right now either.

Just wait and see what tomorrow brings. And the next day, and the next.........

Re: NB: I owe them money not vice versa.

^Good oh....

Anyway, AIG get half their requested $40BN:

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- American International Group Inc. (AIG:American International Group, Inc
News, chart, profile, more
Last: 4.37-7.77-64.00%

12:09pm 09/15/2008

AIG 4.37, -7.77, -64.0%) will be allowed to access $20 billion of assets held by its subsidiaries, New York State Governor David Paterson said during a press conference on Monday. The move will allow AIG to use those assets as collateral to borrow cash to fund its day-to-day operations, Paterson explained.

AIG allowed to access $20 bln of assets in subsidiaries - MarketWatch

^A shameful act, given the fact they slurge money on football clubs, Formula One et al, all of whom are not exactly short of a bob or two!

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

^Good oh....

Anyway, AIG get half their requested $40BN:

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- American International Group Inc. (AIG:American International Group, Inc
News, chart, profile, more
Last: 4.37-7.77-64.00%

12:09pm 09/15/2008

AIG 4.37, -7.77, -64.0%) will be allowed to access $20 billion of assets held by its subsidiaries, New York State Governor David Paterson said during a press conference on Monday. The move will allow AIG to use those assets as collateral to borrow cash to fund its day-to-day operations, Paterson explained.

AIG allowed to access $20 bln of assets in subsidiaries - MarketWatch

It appears that the Viceroy of New York has given AIG permission to use someone else's money. Good on 'im. As long as it's not mine.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

^A shameful act, given the fact they slurge money on football clubs, Formula One et al, all of whom are not exactly short of a bob or two!

But, really, we have nothing to worry about. Warren is going to end up owning everything anyway. (as long as he allows me to have a teennie weennie bit of it)

Originally Posted by who

It appears that the Viceroy of New York has given AIG permission to use someone else's money. Good on 'im. As long as it's not mine.

Correct. I'd like to see these 'units' where they are getting the dosh from defined though...

IMO, unless anyone has anything concrete to the contrary, I believe this to be a sop and will fizzle out like the Lehman fantasy of 'profits' of $426MIL posted recently.

Viceroy of NYC indeed, last time I checked they had trouble financing their own bonds!

LIBOR spikes as banks hoard their (remaining) cash:

^Bugger, graph didn't copy. Anyway, link is here:

Board Message

Originally Posted by Spin

next up for slaughter is Washington Mutual

And just 12 hours later......

WaMu Rating Lowered to Junk by S&P on Mortgage Losses

Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Washington Mutual Inc., the biggest U.S. savings and loan, had its credit rating cut to junk by Standard & Poor's because of the deteriorating housing market.

Full story here

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Butterfly is like that Iraqi spokesman in Gulf War 2,

Stop claiming some imaginary victory, you are like GW Bush who declared the end of hostility and "mission accomplished" on that warship before anything really happened

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Yep, minus the staff. They have gone home with their cardboard boxes and folorn faces.

Yes that's part of restructuring, you layoff people, it's part of the deal. Do you have any clue what Chapter 11 means ? How many companies have done that and are still around ? Once LBH emerges from Chapter 11, they could all be re-hired for all we know.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

Why are you some sort of capitalist apologist now?

Me ? no, actually I am a communist bastard but I can tell the difference between market speculations, overreactions, and the real thing.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

They are bust, broke, game over, insert coin. The players have gone home and are drowning their sorrows.

Do you actually understand what Chapter 11 means in the US ? you seem to be confused with liquidation or closing shop. Chapter 7 is forced liquidation, this is not the case here, they are in re-org mode. But again you have no clue so I am probably wasting my time. Read some financial literature, will you, instead of scanning Bloomberg stories to support your doom predictions

Call Bil Siedman. But then again WaMu might not like that.

The staff are gone, the office locked, PWC (amongst others) brought in, counterparties writing off their losses and Butterfly, like the Iraqi war spokesman still croaks 'we are all OK - its Chapter 11'.

FYI I am fully conversant with Chapter 11 law. But Lehman is not like a car factory, where the plant and machinery can be preserved to produce again under different ownership. Once confidence is lost in a financial company, thats it - no clients, no staff, nothing. Nothing but the debt.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

FYI I am fully conversant with Chapter 11 law.

let me guess, on the top of being a MD and a FD, you are also a lawyer

could you be a bigger fraud ?

^No, but during my 3.5 years in the US I recall about 4 sizable companies that owed us money on entering Chapter 11. You don't forget those things.

I wish you would stop trolling this thread.

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

But Lehman is not like a car factory, where the plant and machinery can be preserved to produce again under different ownership. Once confidence is lost in a financial company, thats it - no clients, no staff, nothing. Nothing but the debt.

This is where you are wrong again

That structure allows it to sell off other assets without liquidating, and gives it additional time to reach an agreement.

in case you missed the rest: https://teakdoor.com/world-news/35511...tml#post761238 (Lehmann Bros - bankrupt, Merrill Lynch to be taken over by BOA)