Thread: Burma and the UN

I've read a lot in the last two weeks from the UN about the need to engage in talks with the junta about the steps needed to bring democracy to the country.

Well, this is my suggestion:

Step 1: jail the generals and their lackeys and throw away the key.

Step 2: appoint Aung San Suu Kyi as the democratically elected prime minister.

Step 3: er, that's it.

Please will TD pass this on to the UN for their consideration? Thank you.

Sorry, I've been away from TD for the past two weeks due to the General Debate session here .... Thank god it's over ,at least for another year. ( The 62nd General Assembly is still on, until December though... )


But this thread did catch my eye though....For the obvious reasons..

Originally Posted by benbaaa

I've read a lot in the last two weeks from the UN about the need to engage in talks with the junta about the steps needed to bring democracy to the country.

Well, this is my suggestion:

Step 1: jail the generals and their lackeys and throw away the key.
.

Now, how will you go about doing that? You're joking, right? This is the real world, like it or not, and not some TV show. Remember, Burma is a sovereign country, like it or not. You can't send in an foreign law enforcement force in against the governments wishes. All the recent UN peacekeeping actions were done at the behest and invite of the requesting countries government, as in the case of Somolia, Bosnia, Hati, Indonesia, and now finally Dafur in Sudan.
Now many talk about the case of "Taking Out" the Junta, which is also a very bad idea, and which would set a very dangerous precentent in international relations. Believe it or not, the United Nations does not have a Tom Clancy type "Rainbow Six" covert strike force operation for situations such as this. The UN was set up originally to be a peacekeeping and diplomatic organization between countries, to provide a mechanism for international law, not a Global Law Enforcement / Strikeforce Organization. Now enforcement of those International Laws relies on the member nations themselves according to UN charter. A seemingly better venue to take the case of would be the new International Criminal Court , esablished in 2002, but just like in most UN resolutions in these situations, does not have any real effective enforcement powers. Some people say why don't we send in UN peacekeepers to fix the problem in Myamar? Well, for one, Peacekeepers are sent to regions where armed conflict has ,or have recently ceased (or paused, as in the case of DMZ in Korea) to enforce the terms of peace agreements and to discourage combatants from resuming hostilities. Members of the UN Security council would have to approve any UN Peacekeeping military action, especially in the case of a countries internal crisis. And , as I noted above, those Peacekeepers would have to be invited by the government of the country in question themselves.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Step 2: appoint Aung San Suu Kyi as the democratically elected prime minister.
.

And who is doing the appointing? Remember, What you wish to do sends a dangerous continuing prececent by a country intalling another nations leader. Myamar ideally should be in a state where the Burmese people freely can and are able do the "appointing" with properly set up democratic elections themselves.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Step 3: er, that's it.
.

Really? I thought you had more bright ideas.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Please will TD pass this on to the UN for their consideration? Thank you.

Duly noted. I'll pass it to the SG when I see him.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Nelson Mandela managed to not fuck up too badly.

Fucking hell. A political statement from the mouth of Marmers that I agree with...

SA is still going down the toilet, as with all other countries in Africa that the natives got hold of.

Is that better, Benny?

Natives got a hold of? Give me a break! It's their country, after all! So you mean to say that Africa was much better under European Colonialism? Why do you think Africa is in the state it's in now? Who do you think destabilized the continent n the first place?

I would highly suggest that Marmite the Dog, and others who share and still believe in the anachronistic doctrine of "The White Man's Burden" ( in addition to those who do wish to really understand why Africa is in the sorry state it's in now ) to please read a very good book called " How Europe Underdeveloped Africa ", by the late Walter Rodeny.
While I agree that many Africans and their leaders are still very much accountable for their role in the continuing underdevelopment of the continent , the fact of the matter is that the source of the whole problem were basically the results of the political and social legacy of European colonialism that was inflicted on Africans after nearly 100 years of economic exploitation and political repression ( they also had no say in the political dealings of their homelands, mind you), not to mention the arbitrary borders established by those colonial powers for their convience, with utter disregard for the indigenous people, their histories or past animosities. This isn't even including the huge impact of the large and involuntary mass migration of Sub Saharan Africans out of the continent during the Slave Trade in the 18th and 19th centuries, which greatly impacted the various regional populations of Africa at that point in time. After "Indepencence", the Europeans pretty much up and left the native Africans with little preparation or training for the maintainance of the local economic and political infrastructure. No wonder there is so much political unrest, economic uncertainty, wide spread poverty and disease in Africa. To people who are not knowedgable in World History, this may seem completely unrelated to the topic of Myamar, yet the after effects of European colonialism in creating the "Third World" applies as much to most of Southeast Asia as it does to Africa.

Originally Posted by Scooter

While you may think that in the end that the UN is a big Joke, ( and I am sure that you are not alone in that regard ), yes, it's quite obvious that the United Nations is not the best world organization that we could have now. Often times in the past , the UN ( and also the international community in general ) drew severe criticism for its in action during similar situations ( Rawanda, Bosnia/Kosovo, etc ). But until you can come up with a much better one, Scooter, it's the best that we have to use for this situation now.


Now It may seem on the surface that there is no real or little movement on the diplomatic front, there does seem to be some promise of positive engagement. Ibrahim Gambari, Special Adviser to the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon just returned from Myamar to report not only to the SG himself, but to the United Nations Security Council. Some of the members, most notably The United States, in addition to it's own present ongoing sanctions, wishes to enact tougher ones though the Security Council. But that of course will be blocked by Myamar's main patron, China, also a Member in the Security Council, who considers the crisis an internal one that the Myamar government should take care of themselves.



UN Photo of The Secretary-General's envoy for Myanmar, Ibrahim Gambari, meeting on 30 September with the jailed dissident leader, Aung San Suu Kyi.




One important outcome of Gambari's mission was the announcement by the Myamar Government of a possible meeting between Senior General Than Shwe and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. In his briefing to the Security Council, he said that he had emphasized to Myanmar’s highest authorities the changing domestic, regional and international context within which his mission was taking place, and expressed the international community’s deep concern at recent events. He also said he had been able to deliver clear and strong messages on behalf of the Secretary-General to the authorities at the highest level. His first message had been to emphasize the changing domestic, regional and international context within which his mission was taking place, with the clear support of the Council and the ASEAN countries. Gambari had also expressed the Secretary-General’s and the international community’s deep concern at recent events and made specific recommendations.
While It's still to early to see if Ibrahim Gambari's visit was a success or failure, I do have high hopes regading the outcome of this terrible ongoing situation in Myamar. But It does remains to be seen whether or not the present leadership there will continue the process of sustained engagement by the United Nations, with the active support of the international community, in addition and especially the countries in the region ( ie. ASEAN ), in the democratization and respect for human rights in Myamar....