Thread: American coup in Venezuela

Originally Posted by Paruk

And some were thinking that Nazi Germany with Hitler as a leader, was one of the worst things that happened to the world. Well, we know the Americans like to do everything bigger and better, so here they go. Prepare yourselves for some truly bad times ahead of us.

My, aren't we the little drama queen?

You can think of the US what you want. But if you think China or Russia is a better alternative as a world leader than the US you are very deeply delusional.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

You can think of the US what you want. But if you think China or Russia is a better alternative as a world leader than the US you are very deeply delusional.

That's a pretty poor excuse to defend America behaviour.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

You can think of the US what you want. But if you think China or Russia is a better alternative as a world leader than the US you are very deeply delusional.

I hate to say it but they will probably do a better job than the US paranoia government

Putin is awesome !!!

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

I hate to say it but they will probably do a better job than the US paranoia government

Putin is awesome !!!

Considering China makes up nearly 20% of the human population and Russia is the largest country by land mass, they are both very peaceful countries in comparison to the US.

‘It's none of our business!’ Ron Paul denounces American ‘hypocrisy’ in backing Venezuelan coup
Published time: 25 Jan, 2019 23:53

Supporting a coup in Venezuela in the name of promoting democracy is rather ironic, former Congressman Ron Paul told RT, pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of enforcing “American values” at gunpoint.

“Where do we get the moral authority to be the decider?” the Ron Paul Institute founder asked. “I think it’s rather ironic for our government to say they want to take care of Venezuela... by having a coup and threatening them with military violence because they’re not democratic enough!”

American intervention in Venezuela’s affairs is not only hypocritical, but “unwise, very dangerous, it will be costly, it’s against our rules, and if they pretend that we have to go in because we want to spread American values, those aren’t my values!” Paul exclaimed, pointing out that the US criticizes other countries for alleged ‘meddling’ but “when we do it, it’s right and proper and almost holy.”

Warning that Maduro will not roll over and relinquish power without a fight – and that the other Western countries lining up behind self-appointed President Juan Guaidó are probably only doing so to avoid economic retaliation from Washington – Paul lamented the Trump administration’s inability to learn from history.

“Have a look at US foreign policy of the last 10 years!” Paul implored, begging the US to at least learn from the lessons of the ‘war on terror’.

There’s nothing like foreign occupation that unifies the people.

“I’m sure there’s some harm done by Maduro and others,” Paul said, adding that he’s a harsh critic of Venezuela’s socialism, which “usually leads to impoverishment” – but it’s not “our job” to carry out “unnecessary interventions.”

https://www.rt.com/news/449755-ron-p...ela-hypocrisy/

I didn't realise Noam Chomsky was a fan of Chavez. I thought he was supposed to be an intellectual.

Conspicuous by its relative absence in much of the mainstream news coverage of Venezuela’s political crisis is the word “socialism.” Yes, every sensible observer agrees that Latin America’s once-richest country, sitting atop the world’s largest proven oil reserves, is an economic basket case, a humanitarian disaster, and a dictatorship whose demise cannot come soon enough.

But … socialist? Perish the thought.

Or so goes a line of argument that insists socialism’s good name shouldn’t be tarred by the results of experience. On Venezuela, what you’re likelier to read is that the crisis is the product of corruption, cronyism, populism, authoritarianism, resource-dependency, U.S. sanctions and trickery, even the residues of capitalism itself. Just don’t mention the S-word because, you know, it’s working really well in Denmark.

Curiously, that’s not how the Venezuelan regime’s admirers used to speak of “21st century socialism,” as it was dubbed by Hugo Chávez. The late Venezuelan president, said Britain’s Jeremy Corbyn, “showed us there is a different and a better way of doing things. It’s called socialism, it’s called social justice, and it’s something that Venezuela has made a big step toward.” Noam Chomsky was similarly enthusiastic when he praised Chávez in 2009. “What’s so exciting about at last visiting Venezuela,” the linguist said, is that “I can see how a better world is being created and can speak to the person who’s inspired it.”

Nor were many of the Chávez’s admirers overly worried about his regime’s darker sides. Chomsky walked back some of his praise as Venezuela became more overtly dictatorial, but others on the left weren’t as squeamish. In a lengthy obituary in The Nation, New York University professor Greg Grandin opined, “the biggest problem Venezuela faced during his rule was not that Chávez was authoritarian but that he wasn’t authoritarian enough.

At least Grandin could implicitly concede that socialism ultimately requires coercion to achieve its political aims; otherwise, it’s human nature for people to find loopholes and workarounds to keep as much of their property as they can.

That’s more than can be said for some of Chávez’s erstwhile defenders, who would prefer to forget just how closely Venezuela followed the orthodox socialist script. Government spending on social programs? Check: From 2000 to 2013, spending rose to 40 percent of G.D.P., from 28 percent. Raising the minimum wage? Check. Nicolás Maduro, the current president, raised it no fewer than six times last year (though it makes no difference in the face of hyperinflation). An economy based on co-ops, not corporations? Check again. As Naomi Klein wrote in her fawning 2007 book, “The Shock Doctrine,” “Chávez has made the co-ops a top political priority … By 2006, there were roughly 100,000 cooperatives in the country, employing more than 700,000 workers.

And, lest we forget, all of this was done as Chávez won one election after another during the oil-boom years. Indeed, one of the chief selling points of Chavismo to its Western fans wasn’t just that it was an example of socialism, but of democratic socialism, too.

If the policy prescriptions were familiar, the consequences were predictable.

Government overspending created catastrophic deficits when oil prices plummeted. Worker co-ops wound up in the hands of incompetent and corrupt political cronies. The government responded to its budgetary problems by printing money, leading to inflation. Inflation led to price controls, leading to shortages. Shortages led to protests, leading to repression and the destruction of democracy. Thence to widespread starvation, critical medical shortages, an explosion in crime, and a refugee crisis to rival Syria’s.

All of this used to be obvious enough, but in the age of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez it has to be explained all over again. Why does socialism never work? Because, as Margaret Thatcher explained, “eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

What now? The Trump administration took exactly the right step in recognizing National Assembly leader Juan Guaidó as Venezuela’s constitutionally legitimate president. It can bolster his personal security by warning Venezuela’s generals that harm will come to them if harm comes to him. It can enhance his political standing by providing access to funds that can help him establish an alternative government and entice wavering figures in the Maduro camp to switch sides. It can put Venezuela on the list of state sponsors of terrorism, and warn Cuba that it will be returned to the list if it continues to aid Caracas’s intelligence apparatus.

And it can help arrange legal immunity and a plane for Maduro, his family, and other leading members of the regime if they will agree to resign now. Surely there’s a compound in Havana where that gang can live out their days without tyrannizing a nation.

In the meantime, the larger lesson of Venezuela’s catastrophe should be learned. Twenty years of socialism, cheered by Corbyn, Klein, Chomsky and Co., led to the ruin of a nation. They may not be much embarrassed, much less personally harmed, by what they helped do. It’s for the rest of us to take care that it never be done to us.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/o...overnment.html

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I didn't realise Noam Chomsky was a fan of Chavez. I thought he was supposed to be an intellectual.

Obviously the world's greatest living political intellectual and academic is a Russian stooge.

What other explanation could there be?

Originally Posted by Paruk

The world has created a true monster and now it turns against us.

Yawn

Originally Posted by bowie

Twenty years of socialism, cheered by Corbyn, Klein, Chomsky and Co., led to the ruin of a nation.

Aided and abetted by western illegal financial sanctions, theft of Venezuela's gold by UK and in country terrorists.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Aided and abetted by western illegal financial sanctions, theft of Venezuela's gold by UK and in country terrorists.

What is illegal is stealing all of the infrastructure paid for by foreign companies that helped build your "socialist nirvana" in the first place, moron.

In the meantime, the larger lesson of Venezuela’s catastrophe should be learned. Twenty years of socialism, cheered by Corbyn, Klein, Chomsky and Co., led to the ruin of a nation. They may not be much embarrassed, much less personally harmed, by what they helped do. It’s for the rest of us to take care that it never be done to us.

They have forgotten to remind us with another good example: Fidel's Cuba. Not only "twenty years". And that's despite the "help" they have got from their neighbours over the bay...

Caution...economic and financial gangsterism in progress.

Venezuela's Guaido Says Opposition Seeks Financing, Debt Relief
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-debt-relief

"Under the rule of law we will have clear elements to obtain new financing to boost the economy, stabilize the country and tend to the oil industry," Guaido said after Tuesday’s congressional session. “With a new government, the debt will not only be repaid, but we could refinance with the trust of a government that can pay.’’

Originally Posted by SKkin

Caution...economic and financial gangsterism in progress.

Venezuela's Guaido Says Opposition Seeks Financing, Debt Relief
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-debt-relief

The problem is you're too stupid to realise that this is the sensible way forward.

The very first thing that needs to be done is to invest billions repairing the oil and gas infrastructure that Maduro and the military have run into the ground. That will require borrowing because Maduro has mortgaged the fucking place to the chinkies and russians in a desperate attempt to stay in power.

Renegotiating the debt is also quite sensible, although no doubt the chinkies and russkies will try and turn the screw because they quite like having Venezuela by the balls.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Backing down, Trump agrees to end shutdown without border wall money

Unfortunately not true. He only suspends it until mid February so that salaries can be paid.

The usual suspects being put in play..."to help the Venezuelan people fully restore democracy and prosperity to their country."





https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/st...69937404735488


August 2017 - "Additional Sanctions"

Executive Order 13808 of August 24, 2017
Imposing Additional Sanctions With Respect to the Situation in Venezuela

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...ents/13808.pdf

Meanwhile in the State Department and all the crony western state and corporate media, something very simple is happening.



Watch as the lamestream media morons like harry latch onto their new target and support the american regime change efforts. For DEMOCRACY.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

For DEMOCRACY.

You honestly believe that Venezuela has democracy? If you do, you've clearly had your head up your arse while Maduro has been stripping powers from the people and giving them to his cronies.

You moron.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

You honestly believe that Venezuela has democracy? If you do, you've clearly had your head up your arse while Maduro has been stripping powers from the people and giving them to his cronies.

You moron.

Just as much democracy as can be found in the US, UK etc. Problem is knobjockey, you are too dim to realise it.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Just as much democracy as can be found in the US, UK etc. Problem is knobjockey, you are too dim to realise it.

....a real free and independent democratic state is virtually impossible to find, as they don't exist - even in imaginary varying degrees.
In name only, less practiced.


Witness the world.
What one might find today is literally corporatism or plutocracy.

Originally Posted by HuangLao

....a real free and independent democratic state is virtually impossible to find, as they don't exist - even in imaginary varying degrees.
In name only, less practiced.


Witness the world.
What one might find today is literally corporatism or plutocracy.

The most powerful nation on earth has spent the last 20 years trying to install democracy in Afghanistan. Who knows how many have died over that time. Now the Taliban( who refuse to talk with the puppet afghani government and will only deal directly with the US ) have done a deal with the US where the Taliban takes control of the country, but pinkie promises the US not to allow Afghanistan to become an international hub for terrorist training camps.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47015794

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Just as much democracy as can be found in the US, UK etc. Problem is knobjockey, you are too dim to realise it.

Imagine if you will the UK PM taking away all of parliaments powers and giving them to the House of Lords?

You probably can, because you are mentally ill.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

foreign companies that helped build

They had already taken home their pound of flesh.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Unfortunately not true

Look at the source - Reuters. Lying again, what's new.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

the oil and gas infrastructure

Being under sanctions by the suppliers government does lead to difficulties.

Originally Posted by OhOh

They had already taken home their pound of flesh.

Clearly you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

Again.