Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

I see it's all gone quiet on the Brexit front.

It seems Covid did more damage to our trade than Brexit did, but we seem to be recovering nicely.

For years, talk of the utter car crash that was BREXIT and you get called a sore loser.

Now this thread has gone quiet, as nobody wants to talk about car crashes on and on.

Better to post up a Pogues video.

But now there's something more to the quietness of this thread, harriet senses...

It's because in the long term things are turning out just splendid, except for the effects of COVID.


What complete and utter horse.

More than a little interesting piece from the Guardian's Economics Editor no less of a few days ago:

I’ve got news for those who say Brexit is a disaster: it isn’t. That’s why rejoining is just a pipe dream | Larry Elliott | The Guardian

Of course, Migration is the major talking point at the moment, and in that the UK certainly isn't alone. Witness the tidal rise of right wing parties across individual national parliaments in the EU, where curbing of immigration is seemingly a vote winner. Again, internal nationalism with regard to potential new nations joining including Ukraine and Kosovo. Not a bad thing that the UK can look on with interest rather than being a participant.

Originally Posted by PAG

More than a little interesting piece from the Guardian's Economics Editor no less of a few days ago:

I’ve got news for those who say Brexit is a disaster: it isn’t. That’s why rejoining is just a pipe dream | Larry Elliott | The Guardian

Of course, Migration is the major talking point at the moment, and in that the UK certainly isn't alone. Witness the tidal rise of right wing parties across individual national parliaments in the EU, where curbing of immigration is seemingly a vote winner. Again, internal nationalism with regard to potential new nations joining including Ukraine and Kosovo. Not a bad thing that the UK can look on with interest rather than being a participant.

Never mind. The shadow cabinet is just bristling with superstars, ready to take on the world.

I'm back in the UK for Christmas and will be spending two weeks there. I hope to get a better picture of the difference Brexit has made.

The German 10 hour rule has caused major problems in the economy, as has the difficulty in firing anyone. The brilliance in German engineering seems to have gone downhill since I have worked there, but still nowhere near the same as the UK.

I only glanced over the Guardian article, it appears they are doing no more than trying to back Keir Starmer's stance on not rejoining the EU. Personally, I believe it is a mistake and the UK could contribute significantly in changing the EU into a workable framework that benefits the majority of its citizens.

Originally Posted by Troy

I only glanced over the Guardian article, it appears they are doing no more than trying to back Keir Starmer's stance on not rejoining the EU. Personally, I believe it is a mistake and the UK could contribute significantly in changing the EU into a workable framework that benefits the majority of its citizens.

I think it was the UK's inability to change the EU that led to the referendum and ultimately Brexit. At the time of the referendum, the EU was relatively stable, with no major issues. That isn't the case today, and as the Guardian piece points out, the single currency is handicapping individual nations fiscal tools. Ever more demands are going to be made in terms of compromise and financial support in the coming together of the current and potential new members. The UK doesn't need to get involved with the shitfest that's happening now and for the foreseeable future, and certainly not from within an increasingly federalist facade of unity that the EU has become.

Originally Posted by PAG

More than a little interesting piece from the Guardian's Economics Editor no less of a few days ago:

I’ve got news for those who say Brexit is a disaster: it isn’t. That’s why rejoining is just a pipe dream | Larry Elliott | The Guardian

Of course, Migration is the major talking point at the moment, and in that the UK certainly isn't alone. Witness the tidal rise of right wing parties across individual national parliaments in the EU, where curbing of immigration is seemingly a vote winner. Again, internal nationalism with regard to potential new nations joining including Ukraine and Kosovo. Not a bad thing that the UK can look on with interest rather than being a participant.

Larry Elliot generally calls it wrong most days but never more so when he tries to interpret the tectonic forces propelling the world. Remember, this is the newspaper that continually refers to the weather as a crisis yet still advocates long mortgages, pension investments and assumes everyone has the right to reach 81.2 years of age.
His idiotic notion that the recent investment news of Nissan and Microsoft is indicative of a new Engerlandian resurgence is utterly misleading.
The CER estimate, and endorsed to a considerable degree by other academics and economists, has it that Brexit has cost a reduction in GDP of 3-5% with most agreeing the upper range is more accurate. That has not been compensated for by any other economic factors and certainly the much heralded TransPacificLalaland Trade pact will only yield a growth factor of 0.01% of GDP.
Every time any society experiences a downturn it generally generates populist nationalism focusing antipathy against foreigners. The Russo- Ukrainian war and Covid has compounded stresses but these will recede and the status quo will remain. The EU is no different to the US which despite its Trumpian neuroses over wogs and wetbacks is booming and the EU will prevail. Germany is faltering but from such a stronger economic base it is of a negligible impact and once energy supplies are assured from other sources by next year it will strengthen.
Elliot overlooks the fact that the EU drove the UK service economy with its labour supply and contributed over 60,000 to the NHS alone, never mind the thousands who worked in the resident care sector. Since Brexit it is estimated 1 million EU nationals have quit the UK and its impact has been felt across the board with third world migrants being trafficked by the government to work at rates undercutting minimum wage leading to the current crisis splitting the Tory party.
Brexit is a mess.
Brexit still loses us £100 billions annually.
The loss of free movement has curtailed trade and handicapped investment.
The UK is now regarded largely irrelevant by the major powers.
Everyone with a functioning brain knows the UK will rejoin…Starmer cannot raise the issue for fear of losing the Red Wall fuckwits but once the UK is back on an even keel and everyone tires of the invasion of African and Asian workers then the tide will turn.

Originally Posted by PAG

I think it was the UK's inability to change the EU that led to the referendum and ultimately Brexit. At the time of the referendum, the EU was relatively stable, with no major issues. That isn't the case today, and as the Guardian piece points out, the single currency is handicapping individual nations fiscal tools. Ever more demands are going to be made in terms of compromise and financial support in the coming together of the current and potential new members. The UK doesn't need to get involved with the shitfest that's happening now and for the foreseeable future, and certainly not from within an increasingly federalist facade of unity that the EU has become.

Christ, the EU is not some sort of immutable entity of its own creation, it is simply an association of states deriving mutual benefit from unfettered trade and free movement of capital and labour under a mutually agreed socio- economic legal framework. Cameron wanted to change free movement to appease the right wing UKIP fascists haemorrhaging support from the Tory right wing which was of course impossible, it was the founding pillar of the EU constitution.
Even the Putin cock sucker Orban doesn’t want to quit the EU.
The Wops always swing from Fascist to Communists and Melonia is only a step on the way as they swing back and forth but it will continue with the EU.
Greece is firmly back in the fold and grateful for their decision not to leave.
The greatest fear is that the Russian pig will win and the Balts/Bulgaria/ Romania will get fucked over by Putin.
But in the end, the EU shall remain, the US shall remain, China will continue with its Asian expansion and the UK will continue its slow descent into irrelevance, an oddity of no consequence unless it sees sense and rejoins at the EU top table where it belongs.

Originally Posted by cyrille

For years, talk of the utter car crash that was BREXIT and you get called a sore loser.

Now this thread has gone quiet, as nobody wants to talk about car crashes on and on.

Better to post up a Pogues video.

But now there's something more to the quietness of this thread, harriet senses...

It's because in the long term things are turning out just splendid, except for the effects of COVID.


What complete and utter horse.

Well unless you have any actual facts that disprove what I posted, I would suggest you're just another surly, miserable labour voter hoping for Starmer to get elected whereupon labour will fuck things up again.

So, ‘Arry, in what sense has the succession of Tory parties and no less than five PMs not fucked up the country, its economy, its infrastructure, its health, its waterways, its transport system, its education system and its currency over the past 13 years, you dozy little estuarine nitwit.

s.a.

Larry Elliot generally calls it wrong most days

much like yourself then.


pag

I think it was the UK's inability to change the EU that led to the referendum and ultimately Brexit. At the time of the referendum, the EU was relatively stable, with no major issues. That isn't the case today, and as the Guardian piece points out, the single currency is handicapping individual nations fiscal tools. Ever more demands are going to be made in terms of compromise and financial support in the coming together of the current and potential new members. The UK doesn't need to get involved with the shitfest that's happening now and for the foreseeable future, and certainly not from within an increasingly federalist facade of unity that the EU has become.

exactly. and although not wishing to rub it in s.a., because thats not in my nature, those are exactly the predictions made pre brexit by many commentators (including myself) yet poo-pooed endlessly by yourself as you bored us stupid with your civil servants statistics and groupthink drivel.

but s.a. always knows better, even when he doesnt.

the uk is well out, and even more so once putin sadly secures his win in ukraine, when the germans, the french and the rest of them crawl on their knees begging favours from him.

there is a huge re alignment in the air, as the hamas israel war, the rise of china and the crazy lemmings leap towards net zero is bringing about a realisation that allegiances will need re considering, political hypocrisy will be seen for what it is and that the silent majority are at last finding their voice.

How is the Euro zone going? I see the bankers are struggling to get their budget through the Bundestag. They also pissed off the frenchies by pushing through the stay of execution on the car levy.

There is a reasoning Tax among the deluded right wing Brexit loons, and one much adopted by your propagandist rag the Torygraph, that the decision to leave the EU was a rational choice taken by a thinking electorate wishing to escape certain doom at the hands of a tyrannous bureaucratic dictatorship.
This is of course nonsense.
It was an accident brought about by a credulous, ill informed, and ignorant public manipulated by specious rhetoric spouted by demagogues intent on seizing power in circumstances not otherwise available to them. At their core were the Tory ERG all of whom are now utter failures and already cast into economic and political oblivion, a rump of Tory extremism that has destroyed the Conservative party.
The world is not about to crash into chaos, the Russian scum will not overthrow the status quo in Europe, the Chinese will not challenge the supremacy of the US in any military sense and the EU will continue to trade to its advantage.

Tax, like all fretting gammons, the more you sense your own demise the more spurious alarm you seek to manufacture. Brexit was not a wise act based on any coherent economic sense or sane purpose, it was simply a victory for the stupid, the ignorant, the deluded, the credulous and the bigoted.

Your heroes are all dead in the mud, Tax, spent buffoons, derided eccentrics ostracised by their weirdness, the witless hoisted by their own petard and the arrogant brought low by hubris.

Brexit was a weapon for Putin and he wielded it so well, but then, when the English are so demonstrably stupid, it was no great achievement.

Tax, you’re a caricature, a walking parody hobbled by the bunions of your slavish devotion to the theatre of the absurd that was Brexit.

BoJo, Mogg, Truss, Cummings, Patel, Braverman, et al, you’re all a stale joke and next year will see you gone.

Good. I can’t wait to see what the next lot do with it.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

deluded right wing Brexit loons, propagandist rag the Torygraph, credulous, ill informed, and ignorant. fretting gammons, the stupid, the ignorant, the deluded, the credulous and the bigoted. spent buffoons, derided eccentrics, the witless, the arrogant. demonstrably stupid, a caricature, .

the fact that you rely solely on insults and hackneyed tropes to bolster your premise merely highlights the weakness of that premise.

Originally Posted by taxexile

the fact that you rely solely on insults and hackneyed tropes to bolster your premise merely highlights the weakness of that premise.

Well Tax, if it looks like a spastic, walks like a spastic, dribbles like a spastic and sounds like a spastic, then, hey, it’s probably a spastic and your hapless, incompetent Brexitory government is riddled with them.

It’s fucked this country 23 ways to Xmas and even a raddled old ageing tyke such as the likes of you must now acknowledge the incontrovertible fact it’s fucking useless. And that streak of putrid paralysed piss Mogg is the personification of its failure.

His fucking little privet fund is a busted flush every bit as useless as he was, a metaphor for his prized Brexit and Britannia Redux, a near bankrupt laughing stock going nowhere.

Labour are going to rinse you dry Tax.

^Its almost as you believe that repeating your lusty mantra will make it come true.

A labour government is a certainty that promises lots of fun in the future.

Labour are going to rinse you dry Tax.

i am well protected, steps have been taken. as they should be by anyone with any sense.

Originally Posted by Switch

Good. I can’t wait to see what the next lot do with it.

It really doesn't matter who is in government it will end up a failure. There are no fixes in a UK outside the EU, only problems.

Originally Posted by Troy

It really doesn't matter who is in government it will end up a failure. There are no fixes in a UK outside the EU, only problems.

Enjoy your UK trip.

And as we are about to lurch into the fourth year of Brexit, Engerlandia is falling into recession as stagflation becomes ever more entrenched, public expenditure falls further and fiscal drag bites ever deeper into the taxpayer.

What a success it has been: five doomed Brexitory prime ministers, each one leading an incoherent, chaotic government bereft of any strategy other than cronyism, self interest and corruption, an infrastructure approaching third world status and a currency that remains anchored in a 20% devaluation since 2016.

I forecasted all this seven years ago in contrast to the deluded nincompoop who all heralded the promise that Britannia Redux would bestride the globe like some newly established economic colossus in no time at all.

The reality is indeed a wonderful, bitter joke.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Engerlandia is falling into recession

We don't read the same comic SA.

And it turns out, well, quite a few economists made a mistake this year in forecasting a recession. Now, 2023 broadly seen as a relatively good year for the economy as inflation fell rather quickly while maintaining a strong labor market.