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  1. #19001
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    I have to say, it indicates a horrible misread from the fool on the hill to say that COVID has been a lifesaver for bojo.

    Sure, some of the inevitable post-BREXIT privations can be conveniently blamed on COVID but Johnson's utterly bumbling approach to the crisis, and all of his clueless u-turns, have been very damaging to him indeed.

    Add to that the way Starmer is quietly and inexorably exposing his rhetoric and his sheer laziness in the house of commons...and he's just running on empty at the moment.

    The absence of braying toffs behind his back hasn't helped either - it's forced the country into seeing the paucity of his preparations and arguments.

    Even tory rags like the Daily Mail can't avoid mentioning it.
    How the holy fuck would you have any idea about life inthe UK? You don’t live there, and you read the Guardian. If you had your way, the country would be in tatters, and riddled with debt from spending other people’s money.
    The country voted for a Tory government because it’s preferable to the alternative.
    Anyone can stand on the sidelines and shout boo. You socialist tosser.

  2. #19002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    At least the French carrier has a catapult system and carries aircraft. I thought the carrier was actually extended to allow the carriage of some US aircraft...at least the flight deck was.

    Which aircraft can the UK carriers support?

    Just another fuck up from British Wasteofspace
    sorry but you know nothing about carriers, or carrier operations. The CdG should have been scrapped by now.

  3. #19003
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    ^ Standard Life for a nuclear carrier is 20 years so yes it is on its last legs. However, it has supported French and US aircraft during its lifetime quite well.

    The UK carriers are not in the same league.

    However, you are just diverting from you utter bollocks about the MOD budget being reduced because there is no longer the need to support an EU army.

  4. #19004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^ Standard Life for a nuclear carrier is 20 years so yes it is on its last legs. However, it has supported French and US aircraft during its lifetime quite well.

    The UK carriers are not in the same league.

    However, you are just diverting from you utter bollocks about the MOD budget being reduced because there is no longer the need to support an EU army.
    It’s still a cost benefit to future budget negotiations. One future liability can now be avoided.

  5. #19005
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    Number of UK citizens emigrating to EU has risen by 30% since Brexit vote

    The number of British nationals emigrating to other EU countries has risen by 30% since the Brexit referendum, with half making their decision to leave in the first three months after the vote, research has found.

    Analysis of data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and Eurostat shows that migration from Britain to EU states averaged 56,832 people a year in 2008-15, growing to 73,642 a year in 2016-18.

    The study also shows a 500% increase in those who made the move and then took up citizenship in an EU state. Germany saw a 2,000% rise, with 31,600 Britons naturalising there since the referendum.

    “These increases in numbers are of a magnitude that you would expect when a country is hit by a major economic or political crisis,” said Daniel Auer, co-author of the study by Oxford University in Berlin and the Berlin Social Science Center.

    According to interviews, half chose to leave the UK quickly. “Another important finding from the empirical evidence associated with Brexit is reduced levels of consideration and level-headedness in decision-making, with increases in levels of impulsiveness, spontaneity and corresponding risk-taking,” the researchers said.

    While the withdrawal agreement signed in January enshrines the residency, work and social rights of EU citizens in the UK and Britons in the rest of the bloc, it failed to guarantee the free movement rights of British migrants, restricting future employment and residency prospects in other member states.

    Co-author Daniel Tetlow said that “Brexit was by far the most dominant driver of migration decisions since 2016”. The jump in citizenship was “further evidence that an increasing number are making migration decisions to protect themselves from some of the most negative effects of Brexit on their lives”, the report said.

    The key loss for British nationals is the freedom to move country within the EU or to work or offer services across a border. This does not apply to EU nationals in the UK who retain free movement rights beyond Brexit courtesy of their EU member state citizenship.

    It means that unless British nationals take out citizenship in their host country, they can no longer work in or offer a service to another EU member state, impacting professions including accounting, law, architecture, translation and health.

    The biggest jump in migration was to Spain, where an estimated 380,000 British nationals live. Registration has not been essential in the country so many have lived there without being included in official Spanish immigration data, with an average of just 2,300 a year registering as migrating to the country between 2008 and 2015. After the referendum, this jumped fivefold, with 21,250 registrations in the two years between 2016 and 2018.

    The second most popular country for British nationals was France, which does not require registration of EU migrants. Between 2008 and 2015 the number of registrations was just over 500 a year. After the referendum this rose tenfold with 5,000 registrations over the following two years.

    In Germany, 14,600 Britons had dual nationality in 2019 compared to 622 in 2015. A total of 31,600 applied and received German citizenship in the three years after the referendum (2016 to 2019) with another 15,000 German passports expected for 2020. Overall half the estimated 120,000 Britons in Germany are expected to have dual citizenship by the end of this year.

    Interviews with migrants in Germany for the study found those who had made the move to the EU since 2015 considered it a “big risk” but were prepared to make the trade-off to secure future residency and employment routes across 27 countries.

    Tetlow said the rise in naturalisation numbers was a striking commitment “to integrate or socially embed”, with an increase in language learning and community involvement. “We’re observing a new social integration phenomenon and a redefining of what it means to be British European. In 2019, Brits came in just behind Turks in numbers receiving German citizenship – way ahead of Poles, Romanians, Iraqis or Syrians,” he added.

    Number of UK citizens emigrating to EU has risen by 30% since Brexit vote | Politics | The Guardian

  6. #19006
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Number of UK citizens emigrating to EU has risen by 30% since Brexit vote
    Draining Britain of its intelligentsia, in the end there will only be the chavs living there.

  7. #19007
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    And lots of immigrants coming in to take up the slack.

  8. #19008
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    Forecasts of economic doom befalling the EU seem to have dried up on here of late.

    Even jabir's piped down.

    I wonder why?

    Britain has entered the deepest recession since records began as official figures on Wednesday showed the economy shrank by more than any other major nation during the coronavirus outbreak in the three months to June.


    The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said gross domestic product (GDP), the broadest measure of economic prosperity, fell in the second quarter by 20.4% compared with the previous three months – the biggest quarterly decline since comparable records began in 1955.


    After a decline of 2.2% in the first quarter, the figures confirm the UK economy plunged into recession after the Covid-19 outbreak spread in March and the government imposed a nationwide lockdown to contain it. Economists consider two consecutive quarters of shrinking GDP as the technical definition of a recession.


    After resisting the launch of lockdown controls until later than other countries around the world and relaxing them at a slower pace, the ONS said the UK had plunged into the deepest decline of any G7 nation in the second quarter.


    Britain’s decline was more than double the 10.6% fall in the US over the same period and also surpassed declines in France, Germany and Italy among G7 nations that have reported second-quarter figures so far. Canada and Japan have yet to publish second-quarter data but are not expected to record greater falls than Britain.
    Covid-19: UK economy plunges into deepest recession since records began | Business | The Guardian

  9. #19009
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    ^ Oh well, at least there will be plenty of employment opportunities within HM Customs soon...

  10. #19010
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    Winston Peters is a total cock but I thought this was quite amusing:

    Britain attempting multiple Brexit trade deals at once is like a cricketer who hasn't played in 30 years attempting to win the Ashes, New Zealand's deputy prime minister Winston Peters said on Wednesday.
    New Zealand has blamed Britain for slow progress towards a free trade deal and accused it of not being "match fit" for international negotiations.
    UK not 'match fit' for post-Brexit trade talks, claims New Zealand's deputy prime minister - NZ Herald

  11. #19011
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    And lots of immigrants coming in to take up the slack.
    Where's your link to that. Gotta be the Guardian.

  12. #19012
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    Less coordinated cooperation with France on illegal immigration can only mean one thing to anyone with the sense to see it.

    And the tories have already started victim blaming.

  13. #19013
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    5,000 so far this year taking the scenic aquatic route, Prag.

    Although I did read a rather sad account of a British dinghy found drifting empty off a South coast beach yesterday with its two occupants from Essex still unaccounted for. Poor bastards were seeking asylum in France but are feared drowned.

    Har, har.

    "hashtag@Brokendownbrexitbritain".

  14. #19014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    5,000 so far this year taking the scenic aquatic route, Prag.

    Although I did read a rather sad account of a British dinghy found drifting empty off a South coast beach yesterday with its two occupants from Essex still unaccounted for. Poor bastards were seeking asylum in France but are feared drowned.

    Har, har.

    "hashtag@Brokendownbrexitbritain".
    This post, along with the author, should be in the Pointless thread. A perfect fit for your style and demeanor.

  15. #19015
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    ^ He always hits a nerve, doesn't he.

  16. #19016
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    I see the economic indicators have recorded the UK as having suffered the worst GDP contraction of the G7 countries and key EU member states.

    No surprise really, is it? An economy based on service sectors accounting for 80% of GDP that has re-introduced tariff trade with 500 million consumers in 27 neighbouring states after 47 years and led by the worst government in living memory whose qualification for selection was a commitment to the stupidest decision in British political history supported by a majority electorate comprising the stupid, the deluded, the ignorant, the credulous and the bigoted.

    "Hashtag@brokendownbrexitbritain" was never more appropriate.

    The worst economy of Europe, the highest death rate from COVID and the dumbest electorate this side of redneck Alabama.

  17. #19017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    Where's your link to that. Gotta be the Guardian.
    Probably, but even a blind chicken gets some of the corn.

    While reports suggest the UK is in deep doodoo and most analysts can't see it improving anytime soon, sqwiril manages to extrapolate that the EU must be steaming along just fine; poor thing, in denial about needing help.

  18. #19018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    i know as a mere lay person you lap this simplistic stuff up unquestioningly but the reality is that in terms of economic betterment the impact on our manufacturing base is minimal given its relative insignificance, only 8% of gross value, and the value of topical tourism to the overall economy is again incidental and not systemic in any significant sense.
    The problem you people face because you are quite stupid is that you neglect to factor into the equation the not inconsequential fact that we haven't left the fucking EU yet and the devaluation of the £ has meant that some products have now become more attractive to our EU neighbours with whom we currently have unfettered trade.
    In 1 year and 120 days that will no longer apply because the Bresxshit fuckwits will have destroyed Britain's status and it will therefore have to compete like any coon state of incidental worth.
    Doubt these British manufacturers will be all chirpy-chirpy- cheep-cheep then, will they, once they pay extra for the factoring and customs clearance agency work and of course the additional duty of 10%-30% will probably make the end users a bit chary of buying British shit.
    Also, the Brexshit retards keep ignoring the fact that in order to sell to far flung markets you have to pay for the fucking transportation - no more cheap EU lorry transport but heck, why should second rate deluded political has-beens concern themselves with mere detail when the dumb British untermesnch are so fucking stupid they'll believe any bullsit rhetoric thrown at them.
    Hard Brexshit, no customs deals, no single market means fucking misery but some will win, the trade in third world contract labour will mushroom exponentially and the big players will be getting into human-trafficking in a big, big way.
    If i was younger I would look to get into Manpower services and contract a deal with the Home Office as a preferred contractor to recruit, house and repatriate third world units for the agricultural/food processing/ market-garden industries.
    Remember when Fox said the British and that piece of shit Duterte shared common values? Yep, money-grubbing immoral scum sucking each other's cock dry.
    Brexshit heaven!

    Meanwhile 55% of E.U. Imports are transported by sea and 15% by road, whilst E.U. exports are transported 45% by sea and 20% by road you dumb boghopper.

  19. #19019
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    Next round of talks is Tuesday 18 August. Will it be a face-to-face with possible quarantine on return home?

    I think no-one is expecting anything from these talks until October, or possibly later. A second round of Covid hitting the UK and Europe in the autumn will be a reasonable excuse to cop out if required.

    These are certainly interesting times.

  20. #19020
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    Deficit up to 2tn now...things are not looking good.

    The Brexit talks still aren't going anywhere. The EU have no intention of changing their stance and no need.

    Boris is just going to have to back down, probably at the last minute, and sell it to Joe Public as a victory.

    Both the UK and the EU are going to lose badly from this debacle.

  21. #19021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Deficit up to 2tn now...things are not looking good.

    The Brexit talks still aren't going anywhere. The EU have no intention of changing their stance and no need.

    Boris is just going to have to back down, probably at the last minute, and sell it to Joe Public as a victory.

    Both the UK and the EU are going to lose badly from this debacle.
    Some observers clearly have no patience. Hardly worth commenting whe all you have to say is yet more idle speculation.

  22. #19022
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    So the plan was always to just seal a deal before the election and renege on it afterwards...breaking the law just a little bit. These shifty bastards can't even be trusted on what little has been agreed so far.


    Senior Tories urge ministers to scrap 'illegal' Brexit rule plan

    Government ignored legal advice over proposed withdrawal agreement changes



    Senior Conservative MPs and a raft of legal experts have urged the government not to go ahead with plans to drive through a change to the Brexit agreement on Northern Ireland after a minister conceded it would break international law.


    The remarkable admission by Brandon Lewis, secretary of state for Northern Ireland, followed the resignation of the most senior legal civil servant and has raised questions over the future of justice secretary, Robert Buckland, and attorney general, Suella Braverman, both of whom have taken oaths to uphold the rule of law.


    Their positions were put in the spotlight after the departure of Sir Jonathan Jones, who is understood to have become exasperated that ministers intended to ignore his advice that any changes to the new internal market bill would likely be illegal.


    The Guardian understands the government sought independent legal advice from a leading barrister, whose advice chimed with that of Jones, but their opinions were overridden by ministers.


    One EU diplomat suggested the minister’s admission the UK was prepared to break international law could have an immediate impact on the current talks in London between UK chief negotiator David Frost and the EU’s Michel Barnier.


    “If true, it would be a massive blow to the UK’s international reputation and have huge negative consequences on the current talks with the EU”, the source said.


    “It would be in Britain’s best interests to clarify its plans now, urgently, and assure the EU that it will continue to honour its commitments under the withdrawal agreement under all circumstances. Who would want to agree trade deals with a country that doesn’t implement international treaties? It would ultimately be a self-defeating strategy.”


    The Guardian has been told that Jones, the head of the UK government’s legal department, disagreed with Braverman’s initial interpretation of the legal implications of a no-deal Brexit.


    This raised questions about whether government plans to override the Brexit withdrawal agreement were in breach of the ministerial code, which obliged ministers to follow the law, including international law.


    A Whitehall source said Jones was also aware that stepping outside the law would be a breach of the civil service code, by which he is expected to abide.


    Jones’s departure came just hours before Lewis astonished the House of Commons.


    He told MPs: “Yes, this does break international law in a very specific and limited way. We’re taking the powers of this to apply the EU law concept of direct effect … in a certain very tightly defined circumstance.”


    The former prime minister Theresa May questioned whether Johnson was risking the UK’s international reputation. “How can the government reassure future international partners that the UK can be trusted to abide by the legal obligations of the agreement itself,” she said in an exchange with Lewis.


    Furious Tory MPs have urged the government to reconsider pursuing a breach of international law, including the Conservative chairs of three select committees.


    Bob Neill, the chair of the justice select committee, said: “Any breach, or potential breach, of the international legal obligations we have entered into is unacceptable, regardless of whether it’s in a ‘specific’ or ‘limited way’. Adherence to the rule of law is not negotiable.”


    Concerns were also raised by Tom Tugendhat, foreign affairs chair, and by Tobias Ellwood, who chairs the defence committee. Tugendhat said: “Our entire economy is based on the perception that people have of the UK’s adherence to the rule of law. I hope it’s clear where I stand on that.”


    The Welsh government’s minister for European transition, Jeremy Miles, described the bill as an “attack on democracy” and a plan to “sacrifice the future of the union by stealing powers from devolved administrations”.


    Sir Bernard Jenkin, the senior Brexiter and chair of the House of Commons’ liaison committee, said he was shocked by Lewis’ statement to MPs and suggested he may have made an error.


    “I was astonished that a minister of the Crown should say to the House of Commons that we will attempt to breach international law,” he told the Guardian. “I don’t think he has got that quite right. This is about insisting on a shared interpretation of an agreement that we have made with the EU. The EU should no more insist on their interpretation than we should insist on ours.”


    He said that the government can still challenge the EU over its interpretation of the withdrawal agreement without telling Parliament that the UK will ignore international legislation. “I think Brandon Lewis misspoke and got the emphasis wrong. The EU does not have a monopoly of wisdom over the meaning of the agreement,” he said.


    Other public critics included the veteran Tory Roger Gale who said attempts to re-write the protocol “will be regarded worldwide as an act of bad faith”.


    The former minister George Freeman said the supreme court would be “preparing to remind ministers that intentionally breaking the law – even in a very specific and limited way – is, well, unlawful.”


    Lord Falconer, the shadow attorney general, said the positions of Braverman and Buckland, as members of a government that has admitted it intended to break the law but who had taken an oath to uphold the rule of law, should now be put into question.


    Dinah Rose, the barrister and president of Magdalen College, Oxford, said: “If a barrister advises a client that a particular act would be unlawful, but the client insists on doing it anyway, the barrister may not continue to represent that client. The barrister is professionally embarrassed and should resign. I’m sure Robert Buckland knows this.”


    Government sources claimed the move would not breach the ministerial code because the obligation on ministers to comply with international law was removed from the guidance in 2015 by David Cameron, although they conceded there was some disagreement over the interpretation.


    However legal experts including Lord Anderson, former terror watchdog and member of the House of Lords justice committee, said the code still mandated ministers to uphold international law following a court of appeal ruling in 2018, which concluded there was an “overarching” duty of ministers to comply with international law.


    Trade expert David Henig, director of the European Centre for International Political Economy thinktank, said it looks like “there are issues” over the Northern Ireland protocol, while law experts suggested it was an attempt to re-write the rules on state aid in Northern Ireland.


    In a statement from the Northern Ireland Office, the government is promising to deliver “true unfettered access … without paperwork” for trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. It also said that “while Northern Ireland will remain subject to the EU’s state aid regime for the duration of the protocol, GB will not be subject to EU rules in this area.”


    It is understood Lewis did not misspeak in the Commons and senior government figures had decided it was better to be honest that the plans would breach international law – rather than stonewall.


    Jones becomes the sixth senior Whitehall figure to resign in recent months, including the cabinet secretary, Mark Sedwill, the Foreign Office permanent secretary, Simon McDonald, and Jonathan Slater from the Department of Education. Sir Philip Rutnam, former permanent secretary at the Home Office, has begun legal proceedings against the department for constructive dismissal.


    Pro-Brexit Conservative MPs stepped up their own lobbying on Tuesday, urging Johnson to go further and to ditch the EU withdrawal agreement entirely should no trade deal be reached, claiming they were promised he would do so before they passed the bill in January.


    Sir Bernard Jenkin, who chairs the European Research Group of hard-Brexit Tory MPs, said the group of MPs who destroyed May’s deal had only voted in favour of Johnson’s because they had been assured the government would ditch the agreement if no trade deal was reached with the European Union.


    “We made clear, however, that this agreement was barely ‘tolerable’ and only voted for it against assurances given by government: that it was just a starting point for negotiations; that it would be superseded by a full FTA [free trade agreement]; and, if needs be, could be repudiated,” he wrote in the Diplomat magazine.


    A Downing Street spokesman said they “remain committed to the implementation of the withdrawal agreement and the Northern Ireland protocol” regardless of whether a deal was reached.


    Senior Tories urge ministers to scrap 'illegal' Brexit rule plan | Politics | The Guardian

  23. #19023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    I see the economic indicators have recorded the UK as having suffered the worst GDP contraction of the G7 countries and key EU member states.

    No surprise really, is it? An economy based on service sectors accounting for 80% of GDP that has re-introduced tariff trade with 500 million consumers in 27 neighbouring states after 47 years and led by the worst government in living memory whose qualification for selection was a commitment to the stupidest decision in British political history supported by a majority electorate comprising the stupid, the deluded, the ignorant, the credulous and the bigoted.

    "Hashtag@brokendownbrexitbritain" was never more appropriate.

    The worst economy of Europe, the highest death rate from COVID and the dumbest electorate this side of redneck Alabama.
    Maybe the TD chief economist Rory O'Retard from Pattaya can remind members how long Britain has been out of the E.U. Poor chap has obvious signs of mad cow disease probably from licking Theresa Mays' toilet seat in his previous occupation as parliamentary sanitary attendant.

  24. #19024
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    You dimwits were putting forward the 'argument' that leaving the EU was demonstrably a good move because nothing had gone wrong yet...for four years before we actually left. And in any case, according to you, the EU was bound for economic armageddon.

    Now when the UK has been faring worse than any key member state of the EU....it's too soon to say it's linked to leaving the EU.


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    I'm rooting for BoJo and his rightwing filth in their scuppering of talks when (if) they renege on the WA's provisions governing the NI protocols.

    The chaos will be marvellous to watch as indeed will be the paralysis of the road haulier industry, and trade collapses along with the fishery industry. Inflation will skyrocket for sure but the funniest consequence will be the US refusal to enter trade negotiations because of the Tory sabotaging of the GFA - Pelosi sent another reminder the other day that no Congress will endorse any trade deal if the English do the dirty on the Irish.

    This promises to be a fun Xmas to remember particularly in light of the impending closure of all pubs, bars and restaurants as th COVID death rate climbs back up.

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