Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

I very much doubt Scotland will secede, but if they do that will slightly raise the GDP per head of the rest of the UK. Ditto N. Ireland- although I think their reasons are more economically and culturally sound than Scotlands. So hardly a threat.

It only just seems to be sinking in to the EU that they face some momentous decisions. Given their own internal issues, taking a punitive approach with the UK- which results in a lose/lose scenario- will backfire badly. Germany will hardly be likely to act as a kindly benefactor, if it's own economy is being damaged by stupid EU decisions by largely French speaking bureacrats. Apart from UK being the EU's largest trading partner, the EU has an enormous balance of trade surplus with the UK which they would be idiotic to jeopardize. There are very few indeed EU exports to the UK that cannot be substituted elsewhere, should it come to that. ANZ dairy farmers & vignerons would be elated! China too.

I don't consider this a likely outcome at all, but if the dumber Eurocrats in Brussels get their way it could jeopardise the whole EU project. Sensible members like Germany & Scandinavia would soon enough head for the exits too if they perceive the EU as a charity club for farmers and the weaker members, which damages their trading relationships with the rest of the world. Plenty already feel that way.

Not too sure to what extent it is proceeding from good old fashioned pique, but the panic scenarios from our more vocal bremoaners are entirely unrealistic.

Not wishful at all, because I don't wish for a dissolution of the EU, neither (as I pointed out) do I consider it likely. Allowing the more idiotic of the Eurocrats their way would only however raise the sceptre, and make it more likely. Thus pragmatism, as usual, will win the day. That's where the money is. I'm not convinced the cumbersome and petulant Brussels/Stasbourg/Maastricht Eurocracy has considered much beyond their own cushy jobs. Well tough shit- they're gonna need to slim down some, now that their second largest contributor has left.

I've always thought the basic E.U. concept is a good one

Me too.

The mistake was pushing it too far too quickly

Zing. But you've missed the critical point of creeping Sovereignty issues- particularly as it applies to the UK. Bureaucrats in Brussels, with their ally Macron, are not going to erode UK national sovereignty in foreign speaking corridors. We never signed up for that. That actually is what has changed me from a theoretical remainer, to a reluctant brexiter.

The term, in business parlance, is Mission Creep. The EU needs to get together and have a damn good think about what it's Missions actually are- perhaps even arrive at a binding Constitution. Don't allow the debate to be stolen from under you in Belgian corridors.

Cometh the day, cometh the man. Big mouthed Bojo is merely mirroring the shrill Eurocratic chorus from Brussels. Perhaps they actually believe that they can "punish" the UK for it's impertinent decision to leave, with no damaging return consequences, thus warning off any other such thought crimes from other miscreant member states, while all keeping their overpaid, cushy jobs. Dream on.

There are many adults in the room, on both sides, and much valuable trade that rides on the result of these negotiations. I would think there is much more sense being spoken in corporate Boardrooms than Brussels right now. Not a bad article, in setting out the overall starting positions-


UK talks tough on EU post-Brexit trade deal


LONDON: Britain put the prospect of a chaotic Brexit back on the table on Thursday as it set out its red lines for upcoming trade talks with the European Union.
In its mandate for negotiations that start on Monday, Prime Minister Boris Johnson's government rebuffed the EU's demands for common trading standards and to maintain existing fishing rights.
It set out hopes for a free trade deal with Brussels, but warned it could walk away without one if a "broad outline" of an agreement has not emerged by June.
This would see Britain's currently seamless trading arrangements with the EU, forged over half a century of membership, end once a post-Brexit transition period expires in December.
"We want the best possible trading relationship with the EU, but in a pursuit of a deal, we will not trade away our sovereignty," senior government minister Michael Gove told MPs.
The European Commission, which is negotiating on behalf of the EU's 27 member states, said it was preparing for all scenarios.
"The commission maintains its capacity to prepare for no deal following the result of those negotiations," spokeswoman Dana Spinant said.

No alignment

Britain left the EU on January 31, but both sides agreed to a standstill transition period lasting until December 31 to allow time to strike a new partnership.
Johnson wants a free trade agreement similar to the EU's deal with Canada, set alongside separate agreements laying out cooperation on issues such as fishing, energy, aviation and law enforcement.
But Brussels says Britain's geographical proximity and existing close ties make it a different case, fearing it could gain an uncompetitive advantage by relaxing costly environmental and labour laws.
It says Britain must mirror EU standards if it wants to continue freely trading goods with the bloc's huge single market.
However, London says this would constrain its ability to strike deals with other countries, notably the United States, whose Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer visited London on Thursday.
UK International Trade Secretary Liz Truss said she told US President Donald Trump's envoy that "securing an ambitious free trade agreement with the US is one of my top priorities".
Brussels also wants its state aid rules to apply in Britain -- something London rejects.
Another potential flashpoint is financial services, which could be a bargaining chip for Brussels because of the importance of the sector to the British economy.
London wants to complete so-called equivalence assessments by June, to allow firms to keep working in the EU after December.

'Brexit zealots'

As Gove set out the government's plan in the House of Commons, opposition politicians decried the hard line approach.
"This is nothing other than a routemap to the cherished no-deal -- the real ambition of these Brexit zealots," said Scottish National Party MP Pete Wishart.
There was also criticism at confirmation that Britain will leave the European Arrest Warrant scheme, which allows for the swift transfer of suspects across the bloc.
The British government said it wanted to reach its own, separate fast-track extradition arrangement with Brussels.
But Labour MP Yvette Cooper, chairwoman of the home affairs committee, said it represented a "huge scaling back in ambition" for a close security partnership.

Fishing rights

Another area of controversy is fishing rights, which became a totemic issue for the Brexit campaign led by Johnson during the 2016 EU referendum campaign.
It is also vital for many EU countries, notably France, where fish and seafood caught in UK waters account 30 percent of sales for fishermen.
Brussels wants to maintain the right of its fleets to fish in UK waters, and has warned that failure to agree on this could scupper the wider trade talks.
But Gove told MPs: "We will take back control of our waters as an independent coastal state and we will not link access to our waters to access to EU markets."
London proposes instead that fishing opportunities be negotiated annually, based on stock levels.
UK talks tough on EU post-Brexit trade deal

In much the same way the Brexit Tory Orcs successfully hoodwinked a lumpen and credulous electorate into voting tp leave by its campaign of deceitful rhetoric capitalising on the propagandising and racist bigotry spewed out by the Kippers and the reactionary tuskers from the old Tory Monday Club, they are now in the process of manipulating the narrative to the forthcoming trade negotiations in which the evil EU empire is to be portrayed as a scheming dark force intent on restraining a new, vibrant Albion from achieving its rightful place in the pantheon of economic giants.

It's a bore, it's puerile and it's of course quite absurd but Goebbels Cummings knows the innate ignorance and stupidity of the Brexit masses will mean the British will lap it up.

The plain simple truth is of course that in leaving the EU club the Brits cannot be seen to retain any of the perks that came with club membership. If Britain did, then what on earth would be the point of the other members continuing to pay for something another non-member would be getting for free? So, if Britain does indeed want a compromise gaining a few cherries then they must pay. It's not rocket science.

But Britain is now firmly in the grip of the loony right wing caucus of freebooters and carpetbaggers who want to see a dismantling of Britain's socio-economic post-war model of hybrid corporate welfarism underpinned by fiscal policies designed to protect the individual from exploitation and the exigencies of happenstance. In their insane world of greed infused riches showering them all in pixie-dusted economic glory, they actually do think that Brexit is but the opening chapter of a reformation that will see the country ripped up from its Keynesian roots and flung into the laissez-faire abyss of dog-eat-dog world where totally free market forces reign supreme.

These loonies actually do think a WTO exeunt will precipitate their new world order the quicker and the Brexit fanatics are now actively seeking to scupper the negotiations.

The middle classes and the CBI are only now just beginning to understand the strength of this new fascism and its hold on the country and many are getting queasier by the day as they come to grips with the truth that they are going to be collateral damage in this new order. Businesses have already been told to suck up the problems from the denial of EU labour and now the fisheries, agricultural, food processing and SME manufacturing sectors are beginning to realise their market access to the EU is to be ripped into shreds by a Brexit ERG negotiating ploy designed to thwart agreement and force WTO status.

Utter madness but the truly depressing fact is that the British are quite simply too stupid to see the dangers facing them.

^ & ^^^ Hey Chico, I really hate the Blairites.

Nandy specifically states she wants to keep Labour left of centre and take it back to the Northern heartlands - I agree with that. Starmer and his London wankers are not Labour, just liars; he is another, just like Blair, from the legal profession, and in the video above you can hear his gears working out his best lie and manipulation for each question. The other woman, the Marxist is a no go; more Corbyn won't work.

Boris is the man to see Brexit through and for the next couple of years too.

After that, I'd like to see a sensible Labour government; maybe, next election, Caroline Flint will win her seat back, she's a potentially great (and nice) future Labour leader. Labour needs to go back to its roots, good working class folk wearing flat caps.



^^ Mr Sausage, Jess Philips???