Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

The percentage of the vote gives a better indication of whether people are voting for or against Brexit.

Labour's and Conservative's positions are fuzzy but Lib Dem, Greens, Plaid Cymru and Change UK are unequivocal in their opposition to Brexit and they have a greater proportion of the vote than the Brexit and UKIP parties. This is not a result that shows the country is solidly behind leaving the EU at any cost.

Seats won is what's important!
Britain has had enough of fractious representation.
Refreshing to hear Nigel Farages speech on preparing for a GE.

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

Seats won is what's important!

None of these MEP vote in the UK parliament and has Farage has pointed out time and again the influence that MEPs actually have on EU policy is minimal.

The value of the EU elections to the UK was that it would give an indication of the mood of the country and (hopefully) give a new leader of the Cons a mandate to press ahead to leave the EU, deal or no deal, while at the same time showing the EU commission that the country was solidly behind leaving, and sadly it has done neither.

At least as indicated by the current results.

I would like UK to leave the EU but I am also realistic.

Originally Posted by Warwick

None of these MEP vote in the UK parliament

One of them will represent NE England and lives in the South of France.

Looks a right twat, obviously.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...exit-party-mep

Clean Brexit has annilated labour/Conservative combined!



On a side note the Lib Dems will never be taken seriously ever again in British politics for their backtrack on university fees.
Which Scotland and Wales to a certain extent still get for free.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Labour now starting to come out as a remainer party,

They've pushed Watson and Kier-Starmer into the media spotlight, while Corbyn stays backstage.

It really isn't true that Labour has started to come out as a remainer party.

They continue to try and ride two horses.

Corbyn will always be backstage.

Originally Posted by Warwick

The percentage of the vote gives a better indication of whether people are voting for or against Brexit.

With the parties that have a clear position (the Brexit party, Lib Dems, SNP, Greens, Change UK, etc) that's correct, but with Labour and the Tories, it's not so clear cut.

Originally Posted by cyrille

They've pushed Watson and Kier-Starmer into the media spotlight, while Corbyn stays backstage.

It really isn't true that Labour has started to come out as a remainer party.

They continue to try and ride two horses.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...labours-brexit

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8931371.html

Corbyn is losing to Thornbury and Starmer - two remain at all cost individuals.

Labour has a problem:

1) Leave Corbyn in and have a chance of a large vote in an election.
2) Go all out remain, get rid of Corbyn and lose votes.

A new vote would obviously be 55%+ for leave if given the same question as before or a remain vs remain/no deal Brexit question.

London and the political 'elite' are causing all the problems along with remainers who simply refuse, time after time, vote after vote, to accept democratic principles.

The remain vote is clearly below 45% now, they will lose a 2nd referendum, but still keep whinging...

My interpretation - for what it's worth - is that Brexit have taken the majority of their votes from UKIP and some from Lab and Con.


Although Brexit party are on +31.6% vote gain, that has to be balanced by UKIP's -24.2%. In other words Brexit have only picked up an additional 7.4% from the two main parties as against LibDem who gained +13.4%.

Again, this is purely my personal interpretation.

Originally Posted by Neverna

With the parties that have a clear position (the Brexit party, Lib Dems, SNP, Greens, Change UK, etc) that's correct, but with Labour and the Tories, it's not so clear cut.

Quite so, which is why I noted that their position is 'fuzzy' and left them out.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Labour has a problem:

1) Leave Corbyn in and have a chance of a large vote in an election.
2) Go all out remain, get rid of Corbyn and lose votes.

With UK's 'first past the post' electoral system, tactical voting can have a big influence. I will bet that if Corbyn was booted out, replaced with Starmer and made revoking Article 50s as a policy pledge they would take a lot of Green and Lib Dem votes.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

A new vote would obviously be 55%+ for leave if given the same question as before or a remain vs remain/no deal Brexit question

Where do you get 55% leave from ?

Originally Posted by Warwick

With UK's 'first past the post' electoral system, tactical voting can have a big influence. I will bet that if Corbyn was booted out, replaced with Starmer and made revoking Article 50s as a policy pledge they would take a lot of Green and Lib Dem votes.

Yeah, I agree.

Nobody wants the Libs in, it's just a remain vote which would be eaten up by a remain Labour manifesto which would lose leave voters. But, there only seems to be a total remain vote of maybe 45%, certainly no more, so all Labour/Liberals can do is confuse things and try to use the parliamentary system to block Brexit.

Originally Posted by Warwick

Where do you get 55% leave from ?

Thin air.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Nobody wants the Libs in

Don't dismiss the Liberal vote. They get a lot of votes that never translates into a proportional number of seats; those votes could make a lot of difference in a GE if Labour came out strongly for Remain or made a second referendum the central plank of their manifesto (without Corbyn of course).

For me the bottom line, is that despite the apparent fervour with which both sides have stated and restated their case and the attendant publicity that reminds everyone just how important this election is to the future of the UK, 63% (not quite 2/3s) of those eligible to vote, couldn't be arsed to do so.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I really can't see how the remain vote could possibly be over 45%.

I'd honestly like you to be right, but I am not so optimistic. Perhaps it will be clearer once the full results are in and the various smaller parties PC, Green's etc publicly state why they think people voted for them.

Originally Posted by Warwick

I'd honestly like you to be right, but I am not so optimistic. Perhaps it will be clearer once the full results are in and the various smaller parties PC, Green's etc publicly state why they think people voted for them.

Why do you need to wait to find out?

Green Party policy below:

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets...e-web-v1.3.pdf

Well done Farage, first person in history of UK politics to lead 2 different parties to victory in a national election. Is amusing watching remainers trying to spin the results though. As to turnout it was a bit up on the average for EU elections, you cant be bothered to vote then dont complain if dont get the result you want.

Originally Posted by Warwick

I'd honestly like you to be right, but I am not so optimistic. Perhaps it will be clearer once the full results are in and the various smaller parties PC, Green's etc publicly state why they think people voted for them.

The propaganda press (BBC among others...) are already spinning the result by writing nonsense such as the percentage of voters who want to remain and/or a second referendum is higher than the percentage of voters who want to Brexit...

However, this ridiculous claim assumes that every non-Brexit party, ukip and Tory voter supports either leave and/or a seco d referendum. In reality, the percentage of Labour, SNP, Plaid voters who also voted to leave is significant, perhaps 30 or 40+ percent depending on the particular party. The remain propaganda presumes that 100 percent of Labour, Plaid, SNP, Greens all remain voters. This is clearly untrue.

Local council elections and EU elections always contain a high percentage of protest voters.

Even if that is discounted, to get from 33% voting for the BREXIT party to guessing that 55% want to leave is ridiculous.

Good night for the BREXIT party doubtless, but pie in the sky guesswork from betty.

At least as important is that this is a total shambles for the tories.

There can be no compromise with Brexit, it's either leave or remain, there is no middle ground and this is where Doris fucked up by trying to find something that doesn't exist and ended up alienating everyone on both sides. Both Tory and Labour need to come out with a clear position and stick to it, fuck all this soft and hard Brexit, terms coined by remainers after losing the referendum and who have been controlling the narrative ever since due to a parliament and government made of remainers. If nothing else these elections should make the Tories see sense and if they dont elect a Brexiteer who will actually take us out and not just in name only then wipeout time at the next GE. Peterborough by election next week or week after, Brexit party might get that as things stand.