The U.K and the E.U - In or out?

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Originally Posted by greentea

we need to start governing our own country again

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when UK joined the EU in 1975 things weren't looking very good for the economy
and that was in better times.
we didn't have 1.5 trillion debt and 85 billion deficit.

western alliances have created the disaster in middle east forcing refugees and migrants to EU. the 99/95% are most certainly not in a better situation today.
it all looks a bit shakey to me.

Boris loves the the bankers, and knows some personally :) and thinks they are really nice people.

Doesn't matter what side you're on
you're still gonna get shafted.
one way or anotherrrrr.

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Originally Posted by Dapper

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Originally Posted by Troy

Let's hope that TD is not a reflection of the UK vote.

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No Troy, let's hope that it is :)

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All this poll shows is how many low life losers there are on TD...:)

The UK will still be in the EU at the end of the year. Oil price and the poll will make for a high risk market ... perfect for a few short term gains by the pundits but not so good for those investing on principles.

Enjoy the thrill...earth will be waiting to catch your fall.

Brexit: for once it’s not about the economy, stupid.

If Britain leaves the EU, the impact will be “seismic”, said Neil Kinnock, a former EU commissioner, this week. Brexit would be “a jump off the edge of the cliff ... in which our economic stability is hugely put at risk”. The message couldn’t be clearer: leaving would be economic suicide. Over in the Eurosceptic camp, we’re told our liberation from the tyranny of Brussels will bring us a new era of prosperity, saving billions on payments into a wasteful and corrupt EU bureaucracy, slashing immigration and restoring the country’s economic independence.

The scaremongering on both sides of this debate becomes more preposterous by the day. Anyone keen that we have a reasoned national conversation about the merits of EU membership should welcome the intervention of asset manager Neil Woodford, the darling of small investors, whose giant funds have big stakes in lots of major British companies. His view is that both the pro- and anti-Europe camps are employing bogus arguments. The mundane reality is that a Brexit is likely to result in either a small net economic benefit or a small net economic loss. Nobody can know for sure which outcome we’ll see. But the least likely outcome is economic catastrophe if we leave, or if we remain.

Woodford’s analysis, supported by research from consultancy Capital Economics, ties in with a separate report from thinktank Open Europe. It said quitting the EU could cost the UK 2.2% of GDP by 2030 – or it could add 1.6% to GDP, depending on how the exit negotiations are handled. Neither sum justifies the frothing fulminations of Eurosceptics and Europhiles alike.

What will Brexit mean for the pound in your pocket? Like the economy, the boring answer is that it probably doesn’t mean much at all. Your pension, if you’re a private sector worker, is largely down to the performance of the stock market. Most of the big FTSE 100 companies are already fantastically globalised; the profits and dividends from the likes of BP or Glaxo have relatively little to do with the UK economy. Britain in or out of the EU will have a limited impact on their earnings.

There could be localised falls in rents following a Brexit, with a knock-on impact of reducing house prices. Buy-to-let landlords are probably most exposed. You only need to read how Britain’s biggest buy-to-let landlord, Fergus Wilson, relied on EU migrants to fill his property empire to know that if the door shuts to immigration, rents are likely to fall. But any impact is likely to be mild nationally.

Holidays could become pricier. Sterling has fallen a long way from its €1.44 peak, though that’s largely down to interest rate expectations. Add in uncertainty over the referendum and it will weaken further. That said, at €1.44, sterling was looking overvalued. At €1.25 to €1.30 it’s probably close to purchasing power parity.

Prices in the shops are likely to move little. But beef will be cheaper; just ask the Irish dairy farmers who are terrified about their key export market, Britain, being swamped by cheaper meat from Brazil.

Some of the important advances for consumers could be threatened by a British exit. It was the EU that ordered the giant telecoms companies to cut absurd data roaming and call charges. But it took Brussels far too long to tackle an obvious cross-border issue. It’s perhaps totemic of why so many left-leaning voters are uncomfortable with the EU. Too often it appears to be an institution run for the benefit of big business. The fact that the CBI is so ardent in its desire for Britain to remain in the EU says all you need to know about how Brussels works for it.

The next few months will see hysterical claims about the economic impact of a Brexit by both sides, and both can be safely ignored. My vote will come down to the pros and cons of the EU political project. This is one issue where it’s not about the economy, stupid.

Brexit: for once it?s not about the economy, stupid | Money | The Guardian

:UK:

If all the UKIP voters and Tory euro sceptic voters alongside the SNP vote to leave then it will be a landslide victory.:UK:

Let's face it, UKIP's votes are why we are having the referendum.

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Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

Brexit: for once it?s not about the economy, stupid | Money | The Guardian

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Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

If all the UKIP voters and Tory euro sceptic voters alongside the SNP vote to leave then it will be a landslide victory

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The SNP are pro EU and want to stay in Europe.

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Originally Posted by chassamui

The SNP are pro EU and want to stay in Europe.

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Good. Bye bye Scotland as well.

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Originally Posted by Troy

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Originally Posted by Dapper

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Originally Posted by Troy

Let's hope that TD is not a reflection of the UK vote.

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No Troy, let's hope that it is :)

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All this poll shows is how many low life losers there are on TD...:)

The UK will still be in the EU at the end of the year. Oil price and the poll will make for a high risk market ... perfect for a few short term gains by the pundits but not so good for those investing on principles.

Enjoy the thrill...earth will be waiting to catch your fall.

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I think European in general are just tired of too many Auslaender. (too many too fast)
And of course too many Asslaender (EU) telling them what to do. (too much no choice)


Have a Cup of Tea, and Wait for This Whole Thing to Blow ...

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Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

This is one issue where it’s not about the economy, stupid.

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30 or 40 million people in the UK will be concerned about their economic situation whichever way it goes.

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Originally Posted by chassamui

The SNP are pro EU and want to stay in Europe.

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The ONLY way the SNP will get true independence is to back the leave vote then once the UK are independent they can force another vote and rejoin the EU on their own terms.

BTW Did you note the percentage of UKIP votes in the last 2014 Euro elections in Scotland..


Party Votes % MEPs change +/-
Scottish National Party 389,503 28.99 (-0.07) 2 0
Labour 348,219 25.92 (+5.11) 2 0
Conservative 231,330 17.22 (0.40) 1 0
UK Independence Party 140,534 10.46 (+5.23) 1 +

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David Cameron boasts of 'brilliant' UK arms exports to Saudi Arabia

PM talks of government role in selling BAE defence equipment as EU parliament votes for arms embargo on country

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https://teakdoor.com/images/editor/smilie.gif

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gifhttps://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gifhttps://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gifhttps://teakdoor.com/Gallery/albums/u...34504/3616.jpg

David Cameron boasts of 'brilliant' UK arms exports to Saudi Arabia | World news | The Guardian

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Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

The ONLY way the SNP will get true independence is to back the leave vote then once the UK are independent they can force another vote and rejoin the EU on their own terms. BTW Did you note the percentage of UKIP votes in the last 2014 Euro elections in Scotland.. Party Votes % MEPs change +/- Scottish National Party 389,503 28.99 (-0.07) 2 0 Labour 348,219 25.92 (+5.11) 2 0 Conservative 231,330 17.22 (0.40) 1 0 UK Independence Party 140,534 10.46 (+5.23) 1 + Chittychangchang is offline

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The SNP is pro EU. They want to stay in the EU. If the UK as a whole votes to leave, The SNP have a reason to ask for a new referendum on independence for Scotland.
MEP elections are farcical. Pitiful turn out because no one cares, and a chance for a protest vote (For UKIP) last time around.

protest vote...pretty big protest vote...

Vote 2014 Election Results for the EU Parliament UK regions - BBC News


Party Votes % MEPs change +/-
UK Independence Party 4,376,635 27.49 (+10.99) 24 +11
Labour 4,020,646 25.40 (+9.67) 20 +7
Conservative 3,792,549 23.93 (-3.80) 19 -7
Green 1,255,573 7.87 (-0.75) 3 +1
Scottish National Party 389,503 2.46 (0.34) 2 0
Liberal Democrat 1,087,633 6.87 (-6.87) 1 -10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2i2MY1U4rg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LycuReWpAE

Nice vid Harry. I do believe the EU project has moved on now. The British asking for changes is a decent start to reforming the EU agenda.
I have no doubt that many of the EU socialist leaders still want a federal Europe, but the British insistence on reform has woken a few others to the reality of the EU and demonstrated that reform can be made even if it starts on a small scale.
More serious and far reaching reforms can only come from within the union. Others will also insist on having their say and an EU collective can be made to work for the member nations, instead of for the federation.

The UK's long-term prospects could be "brighter" outside the EU, a business leader has said.
John Longworth, head of the British Chambers of Commerce, described the EU referendum as a choice between the "devil and the deep blue sea".
He told its annual conference that voters faced "undoubtedly a tough choice".
One option was staying in an "essentially unreformed EU", with the other being the uncertainty of leaving.
"The dynamism and resilience of the City of London and the UK business sector suggests to me that, in the long run, we have the capacity and capability to create a bright, if not brighter, economic future outside of the EU - just as we would have done had we had the opportunity to stay in a truly reformed Europe," Mr Longworth said.
He told the conference in London that his observation was based on key economic reports on the merits of staying in the EU and of leaving.
The BCC has said it was not aligned to either camp in the debate because its membership was split on the issue.

UK future 'may be brighter outside EU', says BCC boss - BBC News

Rush for Irish passports brought on by Brexit fears
Desire to remain an EU citizen after a possible leave vote is cited by many British-born applicants as motivating factor

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The number of British-born people applying for Irish passports on the basis of their ancestry has risen sharply in the past year.

Last weekend, shortly before he sat down to watch Ireland play England in the rugby Six Nations championship, Kevin Warnes posted the application form to renew his Irish passport. Though Warnes was born and has always lived in England and considers himself “completely English”, his mother is originally from Ireland, which allowed him to obtain dual citizenship as a young man in the 1980s when he was doing a lot of travelling in Europe.

A teacher from Shipley in West Yorkshire, he had allowed his Irish passport to lapse. But the prospect of Britain potentially voting to leave the EU in June “propelled me into action”, he says.

“I have two children and I want them to retain their EU citizenship. I want them to be able to travel, live and work freely in a Europe of open borders, to explore their near world with as much liberty as possible.” As soon as he gets his own passport back, Warnes will apply for Irish citizenship for his teenage daughters as well. “I certainly wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t for Brexit.”

Figures obtained by the Guardian suggest he is far from alone. According to Ireland’s Department of Foreign Affairs, the number of British-born people applying for Irish passports on the basis of their ancestry has risen sharply in the past year, just as the debate over the UK’s potential withdrawal from the EU has intensified before June’s referendum.

Between 2014 and 2015, the number of adults born in England, Scotland or Wales applying for their first Irish passport on the basis of having an Irish-born grandparent increased by more than 33%, from 379 to 507. Applications from those with one or more Irish parent rose by 11% in the same period, from 3,376 to 3,736. In the previous year, the total applying in both categories fell slightly.

Ireland offers automatic citizenship to anyone with an Irish parent, regardless of where they were born, while the grandchildren of citizens are also entitled to claim a passport once their births have been recorded in the country’s foreign births register. Great-grandchildren may also be eligible if their parents had registered by the time of their birth. It has been estimated that as many as six million Britons can claim an Irish-born grandparent.

Northern Ireland is a special case, with anyone born north of the border having the same rights to claim Irish citizenship as elsewhere in the island. There, too, first-time adult applications for Irish passports rose by 14% from 10,672 to 12,159 between 2014 and 2015. Both Britain and Ireland allow citizens to hold dual citizenship.

An Irish government spokeswoman said applicants were not asked their reasons for applying for a passport and so the rise could not be attributed to a single cause.

But anecdotal evidence suggests that the risk of a British leave vote has been a decisive factor for many. Ireland is one of the most pro-European countries in the EU and would be highly unlikely to vote to leave, despite harsh austerity conditions imposed by Brussels as part of a multibillion-euro bailout in 2010.

Siobhan Mooney from London has never even been to Ireland but told the Guardian she decided to apply for citizenship through her Irish-born grandfather because she was getting “quite panicky” at the prospect of a British withdrawal. “I thought, well, if I get my Irish passport then at least if the UK is kicked out I’ve got some legal protection if I want to go and enjoy free movement in Europe.” She said she knew at least two other people who were considering doing the same thing.

Glen O’Hara, a professor of modern and contemporary history at Oxford Brookes University, said he hadn’t absolutely decided to claim citizenship through his Northern Irish-born grandfather “but it’s nice to know that there’s a fallback position in case Britons really do prove willing to give up their rights as European Union citizens”.

He said he was less concerned with the practicalities of free moment after a potential Brexit – “I should think we’ll join the EEA [European Economic Area] and there’ll be few if any more border controls anyway” – but with the principle of “maintaining my European-ness”.

“I am a European Union citizen as things stand, I regard myself as a European and I don’t see why anyone else has the right to drag me out of that. So I’m thinking of taking a relatively painless joint citizenship route to ensure that I can keep my EU identity and rights, whatever other UK citizens decide.”

Rush for Irish passports brought on by Brexit fears | Politics | The Guardian

Hey that's an added bonus, we can fuck off all the pikeys at last.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. :) Plato

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Hey that's an added bonus, we can fuck off all the pikeys at last.

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You're from Belgium you [at][at][at][at].

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Originally Posted by Dapper

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Hey that's an added bonus, we can fuck off all the pikeys at last.

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You're from Belgium you [at][at][at][at].

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Erm....

Hit the chang a bit early today didn't we?


:rofl:

This short video is particularly entertaining, seems to parallel the Federal Reserve and then some...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUiFKMw92yA

So, it's real: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...lity_Mechanism

& here are the dream team who run it: http://www.esm.europa.eu/about/organisation/index.htm

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

Klaus P. Regling (born 3 October 1950 in Lübeck, West Germany) is a German.
Rolf Strauch, second in command is a German.
Ralf Jansen is a German.
Rolf Strauch is Dutch.
Christophe Frankel is French.
Françoise Blondeel is French.

All bankers...

Look at the power they have, and how they cannot be challenged or held accountable...

Anybody who wants to get further into Europe and join these maniacs or remain in the insane Federal Europe is crazy, imho.

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Originally Posted by KEVIN2008

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. :) Plato

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Why wasn't Jesus born in Ireland?

Because they couldn't find three wise men and a virgin.

^ the joke's so old, Plato probably wrote that too! :)

It turns out that backing Brexit really could cost you your job. Reports suggest that John Longworth, director-general of the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC), has been temporarily suspended for giving a very qualified endorsement of Leave. Speaking to the organisation’s annual conference, he said that it was a choice between “the devil and the deep blue sea” but that Britain was resilient enough to flourish outside the EU. Longworth’s suspension is apparently due to a breach of the BCC’s policy of neutrality.

On the substantive points, he’s absolutely right. Often we hear that leaving the EU would be a “leap in the dark”. Yes: a leap in the dark… from the dark. The choice to remain within the EU is as loaded with risk as the choice to leave. Do we really want to be tied to a political and economic structure that is moving closer to integration while, paradoxically, it is breaking apart? Would we want to be within an EU in which Marine Le Pen was a big player, riding high on a refugee crisis that could be the very undoing of Europe? And do we trust Europe’s statesmen to honour the agreement reached in Brussels despite the fact – and this is a fact – that it has no binding in law because it is not written into a treaty?
We are the world’s fifth largest economy, a phenomenal exporter with global clout. We are not, thank God, Belgium.:):UK:
By contrast, while there is undoubtedly an element of risk involved in exit, Longworth is also correct to note that the fundamentals of the British economy favour success. We are the world’s fifth largest economy, a phenomenal exporter with global clout. We are not, thank God, Belgium. The voters need to hear the good news about life in modern Britain as well as the dire warnings from the Remain campaign that the UK leaving the EU would be the equivalent of walking the plank – a giddy thrill followed by shark teeth.

If we are to hear the positive case for Leave then people have got to feel free to make it. And that’s the truly worrying part of this story: Longworth was allegedly sanctioned for speaking his mind. As I’ve argued before, the entire British establishment is in the tank for Remain. They regard the referendum itself as an act of insanity and will do anything to win. Expect them to pull rank. How many academics, civil servants, economists, lawyers, even journalists will keep their support of Brexit quiet for fear that it will lead to isolation within their trade?
Put aside high-minded notions of neutrality. There’s no such thing. This is a battle for the future of the country, its independence and its prosperity. There are good intentions on both sides, but the pro-EU side has the entire artillery of the establishment to support it. Ergo, the anti-EU campaigners have to be louder and more assertive if they are to be heard. They will have to show courage. They face the moribund, oppressive, conceited assumptions of a powerful elite.

EU referendum: back Brexit and the establishment will come down on you like a ton of bricks - Telegraph

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Originally Posted by Bettyboo

^ the joke's so old, Plato probably wrote that too! :)

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Probably not, as his world view was quite isolated.....for a wise man.

:)