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Your first point about age group voting will apply to recent elections. A referendum is a different animal and young educated voters are more invested in a once in a lifetime opportunity.
The later graph actually demonstrates how volatile inclinations are rather than supporting your point.
Just saying.
A very valid point and why I have said that the UK are in danger of voting themselves out of the EU for all the wrong reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
Successive governments have blamed the EU for their actions despite them having less to do with the EU than the average Joe realises. This includes allowing EU nationals into the Country when they were not required to (Blair Govt) and blaming EU immigration policies, which they had not even signed up to.
The UK has had plenty of time to move closer towards Europe rather than stay semi-isolated from it. If they end up deciding to distance themselves more then it will depend on who is at the helm and how they will change policies to suit their new freedom. I can't see any leader that is capable of doing this so they will end up like a disabled ship at sea facing a force 10 storm.
Its hard enough to save for a rainy day in UK. The average Joe would struggle if the company closed or a job lost inside that 4 yrs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
Folk would be vulnerable surely, especially if they have kids.
Bills would keep rolling in that need to be paid.
In this crazy world a cushion would create just a lil security for emergencies.
Without it a guy could easily end up with a lot of debt.
Debt being slavery seems to be accepted now instead of shame.
There's always an ulterior motive, especially when the Tories are concerned.
One good reason Cameron is sabre rattling for less EU control is the EU are trying to clamp down on UK offshore tax havens such as the British owned Cayman Islands, which incidentally is where many multinationals such as Google choose to keep their accounts.
Tories lobbying to protect Google?s £30bn island tax haven | Technology | The Guardian
^
Cameron is a sellout, so whoever's the highest bidder.
That's about right. The UK has so many opt-out clauses and still moans at every turn, the main gripe seems to be the curvature of sausages and complaining about sausages needing to be filled with meat rather than offal, gristle and sinew like in the good old daysQuote:
Originally Posted by lom
Not a bad estimate - seeing as it dropped 9% based upon the possibility of Scottish independence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
And so they should - Britain will crumbleQuote:
Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
. . . who are all busy complaining about foreigners who work and pay taxes for these scum to receive their government handoutsQuote:
Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
The EU should just give the whiners the boot . . . and let them reminisce about the glory days while these glory days are coming home to roost in the form of millions upon millions of Commonwealth and ex-colonies best and brightest going to the US and the mainland while the less than wonderful 'flooding' the the smelly isles . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
Yup. Poles or Pakistanis . . .
:england:
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwarner
As Nigel Farage wishes...................
Scare mongering.Quote:
Vote out of the EU and watch the minimum wage and other tertiary human rights that go along with membership will go down the toilet.
Not true: The EU introduced a number of changes to protect workers rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
min wage ? a quick lookQuote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ges_by_country
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/02/323.jpg Italy None; instead set through collective bargaining agreements on a sector-by-sector basis.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/02/325.jpg Sweden None; in Sweden the law provides for the right of workers to form and join independent unions to bargain wages collectively, and it prohibits antiunion discrimination
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/02/327.jpg Denmark None; instead, negotiated between unions and employer associations
Yeah Sweden - wouldn't wanna be like Sweden, would we.
:rolleyes:
And who says the law won't remain in the event of a UK pullout? Have you got a link saying it will be scrapped?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
^This a big part of the problem. A lack of independent accurate information. All the public has to go on is what politicians and vested interest groups tell them, plus carefully selected drip feed from the media.
No one really knows or understands the implications of staying in or leaving, because no one can predict the future with any kind of accuracy.
You can spout all you like about social and economic implications, but it is all an opinion and nothing more.
No doubt major multinationals and the finance industry will have done their homework and come up with a plan A and B to suit both possible outcomes.
Here's and interesting view;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0EBKRm9s74
Not really, the implications of renewed bordercontrol and processing of im/exports can easily be predicted.Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamui
It's really not that simple. First of all you now have to get the agreement of all 28 sovereign states on who can do what and how. The views will be polarised by the different implications for each country and based on individual state needs, so it is far from easy to predict.Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
While the most powerful states insist on greater political union, the UK case will have alerted other members to the consequences of integration at the expense of lost sovereignty.
If each member state decided to cherry pick the best bits of EU membership, we would see a return to the original common market. Greater political union means more unelected and unaccountable bureaucracy.
Cherrypicking isn't done by most and how the UK got away with it for so long while still blaming everything o the EU is a mystery. I do believe they should just fuck off out of the EUQuote:
Originally Posted by chassamui
Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
How did the UK get away with cherry picking anything? The aim of the UK government has been to reform elements of EU policy, especially those giving the EU greater political control over UK matters. That is reform and not cherry picking. It will only happen if all EU member states agree to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
That would indeed be the most sensible solution. The UK however has a democratic responsibility to protect its own citizens and in the modern world, preserve those mutually beneficial areas of union membership for all states.Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
The alternative is to lie down while Germany and France seek ever greater political control over all member states. They want concensus without the burden of democracy and accountability.
You can start withn the Euro and keep going ad infinitumQuote:
Originally Posted by chassamui
Ah, at least you aren't just opening the cavernous 'BAD GERMANY' but add France to that equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamui
So now it's two countries that would lay siege to all things British, condemning the UK to groveling at their feet.
Drama much, Chas?
The best way to combat an issue is from the inside, but if running away from issues like a frightened cur - barking loudly but doing nothing? :rolleyes:
It's the tired and old 'Europe wants British Banger Banned' crap
So, you're saying there are no elections? No elected officials? No accountability for their actions? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamui
Wow . . .
The UK never met the criteria to join. Hardly cherry picking is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
Your words not mine. The UK chooses not to support further political integration within the EU. That's not drama, it's common sense. It was, and should remain, a free trade association with common standards, not a political behemoth.Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
Agreed 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
Only MEPs are elected. All the commission and institution heads are unelected. They are the decision makers who decide budgets and legal positions within the EU. See if you can google when the last EU accounts were audited it begins with 19Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
No, thanks . . . I'll take your word for itQuote:
Originally Posted by chassamui
You and I totally agree there - it was a massive mistake to extend the economic baseline into a political baseline, even the Euro caused many problems in the beginning, in terms of conversion, weighting etc . . . and then there are the Greeks, may their armpits be infested with fleas and may their arms grow too short to scratch them.Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamui
As far as I am concerned, NATO as a symbol of European unity was sufficient.
NATO has many benefits to the EU but the political integrity of sovereign states is not one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
In fact, the Alliance’s creation was part of a broader effort to serve three purposes: deterring Soviet expansionism, forbidding the revival of nationalist militarism in Europe through a strong North American presence on the continent, and encouraging European political integration.
Sigh..Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamui
The decision makers are the MEPs. The commission suggest to the parliament and implements after parliament has decided.
I don't think France elected the British commissionaire.
The commissioners decide policy. They are all unelected and unaccountable. The MEPs are directed by the commissioners, who decide what policy needs voting through. It's a corrupt unmitigated farce.Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
The European Commission is the only institution empowered to initiate legislation. The head of the commission is appointed not elected.