The U.K and the E.U - In or out?

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

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Originally Posted by blue

they

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Originally Posted by blue

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Originally Posted by blue

they

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Originally Posted by blue

They

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Originally Posted by blue

Same people

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Who??

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Originally Posted by CR7CristianoRonaldo
Even VIPs who are campaigning to stay in seem to think the EU is crap. Hardly a ringing endorsement is it !

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Seems like anyone voting to stay in, is uncomfortable with the idea of more and more power going to Europe.
And yet that's what the EU agenda had consistently been shown to be .

So perhaps they (the arseholes who want to condemn Britain to be swallowed up),
instead of worrying about minor details like what the trade deals will be, might be better asking what guarantees are been made to stop us losing all independent power ?

looking at Camerons laughable recent reform package , I guess the answer is that the EU will continue to roll out out agenda regardless.

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

We already deal with it through the EU.

So there is no problem dealing with it ourselves.

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Jesus :(

God help the UK if you're typical of the people voting.

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please tell me your're not registered to vote Dr Bob.

Only indigenous Brits should get the vote anyway

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Originally Posted by blue

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

We already deal with it through the EU.

So there is no problem dealing with it ourselves.

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Jesus :(

God help the UK if you're typical of the people voting.

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please tell me your're not registered to vote Dr Bob.

Only indigenous Brits should get the vote anyway

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You're not going to like this. I am an indigenous Brit. Dual nationality. Across religious boundaries. A Lancashire lad, from the Forest of Bowland where there's a whole district with my surname (although in the family we know it's really Yorkshire). Two passports, mind. My family were in the north of England long before the Norman's arrived. And you?

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

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Originally Posted by blue

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

We already deal with it through the EU.

So there is no problem dealing with it ourselves.

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Jesus :(

God help the UK if you're typical of the people voting.

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please tell me your're not registered to vote Dr Bob.

Only indigenous Brits should get the vote anyway

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You're not going to like this. I am an indigenous Brit. Dual nationality. Across religious boundaries. A Lancashire lad, from the Forest of Bowland where there's a whole district with my surname (although in the family we know it's really Yorkshire). Two passports, mind. My family were in the north of England long before the Norman's arrived. And you?

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I'm not liking that
but then i don't like most things.
oh alright Bob,,,, you can vote, but it should be one man one vote,limited to one designated passport .
They might even put up the chocolate ration, at least for a few weeks, after you help sign us up for another 40 years sentence

me ?
i'm more indigenous than almost everyone in Britain or Europe due to possessing so much Neanderthal Dna.

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Originally Posted by blue

'm more indigenous than almost everyone in Britain or Europe due to possessing so much Neanderthal Dna.

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Neanderthal DNA? Are you a fucking nignog? Tell me blue, apropos of someone I knew decades ago, you don't have a sister called Kitty, do you?


https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/04/1029.jpg

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Originally Posted by Troy

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Originally Posted by Bettyboo

^ nobody knows, Troy.

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Originally Posted by blue

no one could know its up to the government to negotiate the future deals

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Not the most promising answers, so far, to what is a pretty essential question in my view.

Some things in life have to be done with emotional detachment and this is one of them. You don't change jobs, no matter how much you want to, without securing another one. You don't get rid of suppliers or Customers because you don't like them...unless you have found better ones. Rule #1 you don't burn bridges....unless you are really sure.

Strong leadership going in one direction towards a known goal is required before contemplating an exit or it will all end in tears.

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You are asking question which there are no answers. We are not burning bridges, we are dropping out of a voluntary political union, one that was foisted on us on the pretext of free trade and increased prosperity for all.

In any csee, you are asuming the eu will remain its current form if we leave, it could well collapse in the form that we know it.

If you eant all the answers beforehand there wont be any, its impossible to predict, and if that upsets you, well choose to remain.

As far as i am concerned, after hearing from the remain group, all they are doing is scaremongering.

Case in point the chancellor said each household would be 4300 pounds worse off by 2030 if we left. this is bs.

The real estimate is that by 2030 if we left the eu, our economy would have grown 6% less in that time. And if you monetise that reduced gdp by household, which is a very dodgy measure in itself, each household would be about 1600 pounds worse off.

I am going to vote for a brexit as they are lying bastards, and if you bslance that money against all the dangers that remaining in the eu represent, its a no brainer. :UK:

Meanwhile, Bollock Obama is wheeled in to shore up the in vote and ensure it goes the way the rich Elite want.

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Obama urges 'blood brother' Britain not to leave the EU

“The European Union doesn’t moderate British influence – it magnifies it. A strong Europe is not a threat to Britain’s global leadership; it enhances Britain’s global leadership. The United States sees how your powerful voice in Europe ensures that Europe takes a strong stance in the world, and keeps the EU open, outward looking, and closely linked to its allies on the other side of the Atlantic. So the U.S. and the world need your outsized influence to continue – including within Europe.”

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Britain’s global leadership ??
what the heck do we lead in ? only time we get in wars in on Americas coat-tails
maybe it's better we leave , if it means an end to playing global cop.



https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/04/1039.jpg
''Are you really going to support this smug berk and vote to stay in ?''
obama should say to the british people

We should leave the EU and join up with Russia in a new trading block.

Obama's got a long index finger. :)

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

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Originally Posted by Troy

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

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The World Trade Organization (WTO) is the only global international organization dealing with the rules of trade between nations. At its heart are the WTO agreements, negotiated and signed by the bulk of the world’s trading nations and ratified in their parliaments. The goal is to help producers of goods and services, exporters, and importers conduct their business.

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We already deal with it through the EU. So there is no problem dealing with it ourselves. We don't need the EU to conduct trade with foreign partners. Why do you think we do?

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You are suggesting Brexit go with the no EU FTA approach so I will question whether this is the best alternative first.

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Not at all.

I'm simply saying that if the EU spits the dummy we have that option.

Since the EU sells more to us than we to them, it would not really be in their interests to have a tantrum.

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The UK would pay tariffs on goods and services it exported into the EU, but since the UK would pay ‘most favoured nation’ rates, that would prohibit either side imposing punitive duties and sparking a trade war.
These WTO tariffs range from 32 per cent on wine, to 4.1 per cent on liquefied natural gas, with items like cars (9.8 per cent) and wheat products (12.8 per cent) somewhere in between.
John Springford, an economist with the Centre for European Reform, the total cost of those tariffs would be large, ranging from a 2.2 per cent of GDP (£40 billion) to 9 per cent.
Business for Britain, which campaigns for exit, estimates that at worst, tariffs would cost British exporters just £7.4 billion a year and says the UK would save enough on EU membership fees to be able to compensate exporters for that.
Damian Chalmers, professor of European Union law at the London School of Economics, says the bigger threat to the UK exports would not be from WTO tariffs, but other EU states imposing new regulations and other “non-tariff barriers” to keep UK services out.

(What about the UK striking trade deals with other big economies?)

This is eminently possible, but is likely to take time. Having ceded responsibility for trade policy to the EU, the UK civil service may lack the capacity to strike major trade deals quickly.
It is also possible, as David Cameron argues, that other countries will want to see what terms the UK receives in Europe before committing to their own deal, potentially leading to further delays.
A larger question will be about the UK’s bargaining power with countries whose domestic politics push them towards protectionism, not free trade. Professor Chalmers warns that striking trade deals with major economies such as the US, China and India would be “tough” for Britain.
Brexit campaigners note that the EU has so far failed to secure such free trade deals, and suggest the UK would have a better chance negotiating in its own right with politicians in Washington, Beijing and New Delhi.

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EU Facts: what would leaving mean for trade? - Telegraph

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Firstly, let's debunk this 55 million/day myth...using the same source, Daily Telegraph:

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How much does Britain pay to the EU?

In 2015, the UK’s full membership fee would have been £17.8 billion. However, Britain doesn’t pay that full fee.

Because of a deal negotiated by Margaret Thatcher in 1984, Britain gets a “rebate”, an annual reduction in contributions.

Last year, that rebate reduced our contribution to £12.9 billion. That’s around £200 for every person in the UK.

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Some of our contribution comes back to the UK in the form of subsidies and grants. British farmers get money from the Common Agricultural Policy and various economic development and scientific research projects get EU cash.
The Treasury says total EU payments to British public were £4.4 billion in 2015. Payments to private organisations were worth another £1.4 billion in 2013 (the most recent year on record.) That suggests we get back almost £6 billion a year.

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Taking account of the money that comes back and the aid spending, Britain last year gave almost £6.5 billion to the EU that would otherwise not have been paid out if we were not members of the club. That’s almost £18 million a day.
EU supporters say that money is more than worth it, since it is prerequisite of membership and thus access to the single market, which they say profits the UK by far more than £6.5 billion.

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EU Facts: how much does Britain pay to the EU budget? - Telegraph

So the net payment is around £6,6bn when in the EU and the Brexit campaigners say in the article you quoted that will offset the (optimistic) 7.4bn WTO rules bill.

That doesn't quite add up does it...and yet many are bemoaning the cost of staying in the EU.

The "reported" facts are full of estimates, probably's and possibly's. No entity has any power to "promise" anything.

One has to decide either to be "governed" by an elected group of people. Over which one has at least some recourse to appeal to if dissatisfied. Or alternatively another group, some of which are elected by the constituents and some who are imposed, who do have a different agenda

Most people decide to purchase an object based on some form of guarantee. One does not normally buy any object sight unseen or from a fly by night operator.

If that is your view an exit, albeit with an unknown outcome, would be the correct choice i.e a local person who one can protest physically to, is a better option.

Barack Obama: UK more effective at fighting terror inside EU

The UK's ability to fight terrorism would be "more effective" if it sticks together with its European allies, US President Barack Obama has said.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph Mr Obama also said being inside the EU magnifies Britain's influence across the world.

However, in his newspaper piece President Obama recognised that ultimately the matter was for British voters to decide for themselves.

But he also said: "...the outcome of your decision is a matter of deep interest to the United States.

He also said: "The European Union doesn't moderate British influence - it magnifies it. A strong Europe is not a threat to Britain's global leadership; it enhances Britain's global leadership."

'Stick together'
He said the UK had benefitted from being inside the EU in terms of jobs, trade and financial growth.

"This kind of cooperation - from intelligence sharing and counter-terrorism to forging agreements to create jobs and economic growth - will be far more effective if it extends across Europe. Now is a time for friends and allies to stick together," he wrote.

Barack Obama visit: UK more effective at fighting terror inside EU - BBC News

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The contention (by the Vote Leave campaign - featured prominently on its home page) that the UK has paid more than half a trillion pounds is also wrong. The calculation aggregates UK payments to the EU since first joining in 1973, after reflating the amounts from earlier years to current prices. While the methodology employed can be justified, the Vote Leave calculation also makes use of the wrong figure, again by ignoring the rebate. An amended calculation (using the same methodology but applying it to the amount the UK actually pays) shows that the half trillion figures exaggerates the true figure by fully £110billion.

There are other ways of looking at what Britain pays, for example by taking account of money that flows back to the UK through spending from EU programmes. A net contribution can be calculated in this way by deducting what the UK receives from what it contributes. In 2014, the receipts were a little under £6billion. Throughout our years of membership since 1973, only the UK and Germany have consistently been net contributors to the EU's finances, although in recent years, many more countries have joined them. Remain campaigners know this, but often blur the picture by arguing that the UK benefits in other ways. They then arrive at a figure which conflates budget flows with a range of other benefits to arrive at figures such as a net £3,000 gain per household per year. This too is misleading for the simple reason that it is comparing apples with oranges.

In short, they are all at it. Citizens, voters, commentators: beware.

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So How Much Does Britain Pay the EU? | Iain Begg

[QUOTE=Neverna;3254005]Barack Obama: UK more effective at fighting terror inside EU

The UK's ability to fight terrorism would be "more effective" if it sticks together with its European allies, US President Barack Obama has said.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph Mr Obama also said being inside the EU magnifies Britain's influence across the world.

However, in his newspaper piece President Obama recognised that ultimately the matter was for British voters to decide for themselves.

But he also said: "...the outcome of your decision is a matter of deep interest to the United States.

He also said: "The European Union doesn't moderate British influence - it magnifies it. A strong Europe is not a threat to Britain's global leadership; it enhances Britain's global leadership."

'Stick together'
He said the UK had benefitted from being inside the EU in terms of jobs, trade and financial growth.

"This kind of cooperation - from intelligence sharing and counter-terrorism to forging agreements to create jobs and economic growth - will be far more effective if it extends across Europe. Now is a time for friends and allies to stick together," he wrote.

/QUOTE]

I disagree.
Obama's talking garbage designed to enhance USA's privileges in Europe.

Britain and other nations have always indulged in cross-border information sharing, it's not dependent on being in the EU.
We didn't form interpol for nothing, and GCHQ and ECHELON is not owned by NSA.

Britain can stand on its own two feet handling its own problems, without the interference of Europe or anyone else, and in this case, America.

What's good for America or the two string-pullers of the EU, Germany and France is not necessarily good for anyone else.

Obama's patent attempt at threatening Britain into remaining in the EU, by foreseeing/predicting a lack of co-operation between US and UK on security issues alone should be taken as a matter of serious concern, and Britain should advisedly review its contracts and commitments to USA.

Obama rooting for the elite Americans who run NATO
Wouldn't it be nice if Britain left the EU and then the yanks would have to bully another EU country to do their will.
Who could it be now.

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Originally Posted by wasabi

Obama rooting for the elite Americans who run NATO
Wouldn't it be nice if Britain left the EU and then the yanks would have to bully another EU country to do their will.

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Why? Britain would still be in NATO and still be America's bitch. Nothing much would change there.

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Originally Posted by ENT

Obama's patent attempt at threatening Britain into remaining in the EU, by foreseeing/predicting a lack of co-operation between US and UK on security issues alone should be taken as a matter of serious concern, and Britain should advisedly review its contracts and commitments to USA. ENT is offline Add to ENT's Reputation Report Post

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We could make a start by ensuring that Americans needed visas to enter the UK. Visas which were difficult to obtain. I will not be buying any American products for the remainder of my stay in the UK. They can get stuffed !

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Originally Posted by can123

I will not be buying any American products for the remainder of my stay in the UK

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By Jove, that'll show them! I take it you won't be using those other American inventions, the telephone and the Internet either?

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Nothing much would change

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I concur:)

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

those other American inventions, the telephone and the Internet either?

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It depends on what you describe as the "Internet".

The Ameristani scientists certainty had a hand in making one computer talk to another, via the telephone, or maybe 3 or 4 at once. Apparently the Ameristani government had all of 25 computers linked via their system.

Most peoples understanding of the "internet" is their now daily use of web sites and web pages. The WWW was a invention of a British guy.

But like all "inventions" they are developed and enhanced over time. Some believe the Ameristanis "invented" flight, some may look back at other countries use of kites, held in the air by the wind, a length of rope and judicious tugs on the rope , before the massacre of the native American Indians took place.

Who Invented the Internet?

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Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

I concur

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Are you suggesting sanctions don't change a counties behaviour?

It seems the POTUSE during a visit to the UK has stirred up some comments.

https://www.rt.com/uk/340682-brits-o...-queue-brexit/

“Overall the sense I’m getting from people is a question about interference. Why have we got an American coming over here to the UK to tell us how to vote on the EU, why is he splashed across the front of our newspapers, telling us he has a right to have a say because American blood was spilled helping defend us in WW2,” she told RT in an interview, referring to Obama’s op-ed in the The Telegraph published ahead of the visit, in which he urged the British public to “be proud that the EU has helped spread British values and practice.” “Why have we got him telling us that it’s good for us to stay as part of Europe, because it’s ‘good for our lawmaking, financial systems, good for our sovereignty’ whereas, in fact, we’ve given away our sovereignty,” argued Hopkins."


https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

https://www.rt.com/uk/340648-obama-j...-farage-kenya/

"London Mayor Boris Johnson and UKIP leader Nigel Farage have been branded “racist” after alleging “part-Kenyan” Barack Obama dislikes Britain because of its history as a colonial power in Africa. Johnson was likened to a right-wing Tea Party politician after his attack on Obama’s Brexit intervention seemed to get out of hand.
Writing in tabloid The Sun on the first day of Obama’s three-day visit to Britain, Johnson suggested the US president had an “ancestral dislike” of the British Empire because his father was from Kenya."


https://www.rt.com/uk/340605-ttip-obama-uk-visit/



"US President Barack Obama is in the UK to impose the “toxic” Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) deal on Britain, a move which will allow US firms to demolish the state health system and more besides, War on Want warns.
The British NGO has branded Obama’s official visit as the forward edge in an imperialist-style fight to make sure the UK, and Europe more broadly, accept the principles of TTIP.
Critics of the plan say the negotiations have largely been carried out in a secretive and undemocratic way and TTIP would effectively crack open Europe for big US firms by removing a range of regulations."


POTUSE also suggested/pointed out that any new "trade agreements" would take time and that the UK's would be the last to be considered.


https://www.rt.com/uk/340682-brits-o...-queue-brexit/

“I think it’s fair to say that maybe at some point down the line there might be a UK-US trade agreement, but it’s not going to happen any time soon because our focus is in negotiating with a big bloc, the European Union, to get a trade agreement done. And the UK is going to be in the back of the queue,” Obama said, seemingly countering one of the main arguments of Brexit supporters, who claim that the UK would be better off negotiating trade deals on its own terms rather than as part of the EU."


Cameroon is still under the impression that the "special relationship" is solid, and confusing the roles of NATO and the EU as some have already mentioned.

"Cameron responded to Obama’s comments by calling him “a very good friend” who the UK could rely upon for “sage advice.”

The British PM, a known opponent of Brexit, also said that “Britain’s membership of the EU gives us a powerful tool to deliver on the prosperity and security that our people need.” Praising the current state of US-UK relations, he stressed that “when it comes to the special relationship between our two countries, there’s no greater enthusiast than me,” while referring to Obama as “my friend Barack.”

:rofl:

But don't let it bother you. It's only a lame duck leader of a failed state's, "opinion". Both the UK and Ameristan. Not even a written agreement the POTUSE can so conveniently ignore, whilst signing a presidential decree, on a personal whim/or having a gun held to his head.


Ameristan bringing democracy, their interpretation, to a country near you. Some might say of course, it's a better interpretation, than the EU's.

Didn't Orwell describe us as just an aircraft carrier for the Seppos anyway?

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Didn't Orwell describe us as just an aircraft carrier for the Seppos anyway?

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Yes, but we were a much different and better country back then, and you had just come through your finest hour.

I would hope and expect having a Globalist puppet like Obama come to Britain and practically threaten the Country would help assure a vote to exit the EU, just on principle alone.

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Originally Posted by BobR

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Didn't Orwell describe us as just an aircraft carrier for the Seppos anyway?

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Yes, but we were a much different and better country back then, and you had just come through your finest hour.

I would hope and expect having a Globalist puppet like Obama come to Britain and practically threaten the Country would help assure a vote to exit the EU, just on principle alone.

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That and Merkel being on the verge of handing the entire Turkish population visa free entry to the EU.

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Originally Posted by Troy

net payment is around £6,6bn

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approx 30p per day for each UK resident. cheaper than having a piss.

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Originally Posted by OhOh

Most peoples understanding of the "internet" is their now daily use of web sites and web pages.

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They are wrong. The web is to the internet as the louse is to your underpants, merely a passenger.

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Originally Posted by BobR

I would hope and expect having a Globalist puppet like Obama come to Britain and practically threaten the Country would help assure a vote to exit the EU, just on principle alone.

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He didn't threaten. He merely told the truth.

^ not the whole truth though, so its a threat.