Religious Stupidity Thread!

[Hootad Binky]

Yay! Here's a topic we can all agree on: the inherent stupidity of religion!

Not mysticism, not spirituality, but good 'ole power-hungry, manipulative, divisive, prejudiced, sexist, superstitious, money-grubbing, sectarian, violent, idiotic religion.

Just heard this on the news, but a good starting candidate, nevertheless:

Pakistan Says Militants Prevent Surrender by Students

July 5 (Bloomberg) -- As many as 60 ``hardcore militants'' who want to enforce Islamic law in Islamabad are preventing students in the Pakistani capital's besieged Red Mosque from surrendering to authorities, the government said.

The militants ``are using women and children as shields'' to stop anyone else from leaving the building, after the surrender of 1,146 students since yesterday, Interior Ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema told reporters. Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao said ``50 to 60 hardcore militants'' are continuing the standoff. The death toll has risen to 19 in the clashes between students and police since July 3, Sherpao told reporters.

President Pervez Musharraf's government has been trying to resolve the stalemate at the Red Mosque, or Lal Masjid, since chief cleric Maulana Mohammad Abdul Aziz set up a religious court in the building in April to try to bring Islamic law to the city. Aziz, who has been charged with murder and terrorism, was arrested yesterday while trying to escape from the mosque. Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Hidden in a burka, apparently!

As we all know, there are lots more examples, from all faiths Post them here! Let's expose the true culprit in the limitation of the unity and advancement of our species: dangerous, delusional religion, source of more conflict, death, misunderstanding and misery than any other factor in modern history.

[Whiteshiva]

The militants ``are using women and children as shields'' to stop anyone else from leaving the building, after the surrender of 1,146 students since yesterday, Interior Ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema told reporters. Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao said ``50 to 60 hardcore militants'' are continuing the standoff. The death toll has risen to 19 in the clashes between students and police since July 3, Sherpao told reporters.

It is not that I disagree with you, nor that I think Islamic (or other) religious fanatics are incapable of using human shields, but in this case, I would be loath to put too much faith in Pakistani officials as well. The propaganda machine is working overtime on both sides, and as we all know in war, truth is the first casualty.

In other words, I am not the least bit surprised if it is true, but neither would it come as a great shock to find out later that it was a lie.

Personally I don't think we will achieve true peace on earth until the last priest has been hanged with the last imam's guts.

[Lily]

but neither would it come as a great shock to find out later that it was a lie.

Well, if you have been watching it on TV, the girls in their black burquas (looking for all the world like a flock of bats, flapping their wings), are running in and out of the mosque to yell and throw things, and it doesn't look like they are being held against their will.

[Hootad Binky]

On t.v. there was footage of passersby being shot from militants inside the mosque "for not praying" when they were supposed to (or something). I saw an older man get shot down as he was walking past, but he survived, apparently.

Confused, undignified, lethal & pointless.

[Whiteshiva]

Confused, undignified, lethal & pointless.

Or, you could just say "religious"

[stroller]

footage of passersby being shot from militants inside the mosque "for not praying" when they were supposed to

I am sure the all-merciful one will be proud of the follower who interrupted his prayer to kill a passer-by.

[DrB0b]

Confused, undignified, lethal & pointless.

Or, you could just say "religious"

Hey! That could describe me and I'm an atheist!

[Lily]

Quote: Originally Posted by Whiteshiva Quote: Originally Posted by Hootad Binky Confused, undignified, lethal & pointless. Or, you could just say "religious" Hey! That could describe me and I'm an atheist!

No, surely not lethal!

[Hootad Binky]

Fact: atheists are more intelligent than religious types, and if a highly intelligent religious person tells you they have no misgivings about religious ideas then they're lying They are.

I recently asked my 78-year old mother, a life-long church-going Catholic, if she believed in Hell and she said "how should I know."

I mean, it was the priest who told her to start taking birth control pills, which she fortunately ran out of on a trans-Atlantic voyage, resulting in this post!

[Mr Earl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Whiteshiva Quote: Originally Posted by Hootad Binky Confused, undignified, lethal & pointless. Or, you could just say "religious" Hey! That could describe me and I'm an atheist!

No, surely not lethal!

The arrogance of the atheist is as lethal as the fanatic Islamist. It just manifests differently.

[Sir Burr]

No religious wars have ever been started by atheists.

[Mr Earl]

Perhaps not..But the worst mass murderers in history have been atheists!
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Polpot!
Like I said just as lethal they just manifest differently.
BTW my point isn't defense of religion. Just that vehement anti-religious people are very dangerous as well, perhaps more so.

[Sir Burr]

^
You have a point there.

[Hootad Binky]

true ^ but in each case religion was replaced with a cult of personality, hardly a coincidence

[Hootad Binky]

Category: pedophile
Level: monster
Profession: clergyman


Father Charles Sylvestre was convicted of 47 counts
of indecent assault in 2006.

"For more than four decades, beginning in the 1950s, at least one Catholic priest preyed on the young girls of his parishes. By the time he was arrested and convicted, Father Charles Sylvestre was identified as one of the worst pedophile priests in Canadian history. The number of his known victims is in the dozens, but is potentially far greater than that."

"...senior clergy in the Diocese of London knew as far back as 1962 that young girls had complained about Father Sylvestre's abuses. Their response, at the time, was to send Sylvestre to a retreat in Montreal before police investigators could question him. They would send him two more times to treatment facilities. Over time, victims reported the abuse to their teachers and parents; many weren't believed, and "Sylvestre the Molester," as he became known, kept on. He retired in 1993."

I saw the documentary (at: CBC News: the fifth estate - The Good Father) in which he callously denies everything. Apparently he was just one of many pedophile priets routinely circulated through the dioceses of Ontario for many decades...


Runs: 41:18
Video available in Windows Media Player.

[DrB0b]

Perhaps not..But the worst mass murderers in history have been atheists!
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Polpot!
Like I said just as lethal they just manifest differently.
BTW my point isn't defense of religion. Just that vehement anti-religious people are very dangerous as well, perhaps more so.

Hitler wasn't an atheist, he considered himself a true Christian and believed that the churches had been contaminated by Judaism and Bolshevism. In this quote socialism means national-socialism and not the communist-style socialism.

Socialism is a question of attitude toward life, of the ethical outlook on life of all who live together in a common ethnic or national space. Socialism is a Weltanschauung!
But in actual fact there is nothing new about this Weltanschauung. Whenever I read the New Testament Gospels and the revelations of various of the prophets and imagine myself back in the era of the Roman and late Hellenistic, as well as the Oriental world, I am astonished at all that has been made of the teachings of these divinely inspired men, especially Jesus Christ, which are so clear and unique, heightened to religiosity. They were the ones who created this new worldview which we now call socialism, they established it, they taught it and they lived it! But the communities that called themselves Christian churches did not understand it! Or if they did, they denied Christ and betrayed him! For they transformed the holy idea of Christian socialism into its opposite! They killed it, just as, at the time, the Jews nailed Jesus to the cross; they buried it, just as the body of Christ was buried. But they allowed Christ to be resurrected, instigating the belief that his teachings too, were reborn!
It is in this that the monstrous crime of these enemies of Christian socialism lies! What the basest hypocrisy they carry before them the cross-- the instrument of that murder which, in their thoughts, they commit over and over-- as a new divine sign of Christian awareness, and allow mankind to kneel to it. They even pretend to be preaching the teachings of Christ. But their lives and deeds are a constant blow against these teachings and their Creator and a defamation of God!
We are the first to exhume these teachings! Through us alone, and not until now, do these teachings celebrate their resurrection! Mary and Magdalene stood at the empty tomb. For they were seeking the dead man! But we intend to raise the treasures of the living Christ!
Herein lies the essential element of our mission: we must bring back to the German Volk the recognition of those teachings! For what did the falsification of the original concept of Christian love, of the community of fate before God and of socialism lead to? By their fruits ye shall know them! The suppression of freedom of opinion, the persecution of the true Christians, the vile mass murders of the Inquisition and the burning of witches, the armed campaigns against the people of free and true Christian faith, the destruction of towns and villages, the hauling away of their cattle and their goods, the destruction of their flourishing economies, and the condemnation of their leaders before tribunals, which, in their unrelenting hypocrisy, can only be described as balaphemous. That is the true face of those sanctimonious churches that have placed themselves between God and man, motivated by selfishness, personal greed for recognition and gain, and the ambition to maintain their high-handed willfulness against Christ's deep understanding of the necessity of a socialist community of men and nations. We must turn all the sentiments of the Volk, all its thinking, acting, even its beliefs, away from the anti-Christian, smug individualism of the past, from the egotism and stupid Phariseeism of personal arrogance, and we must educate the youth in particular in the spirit of those of Christ's words that we must interpret anew: love one another; be considerate of your fellow man; remember that each one of you is not alone a creature of God, but that you are all brothers! This youth will, wit loathing and contempt, abandon those hypocrites who have Christ on their lips but the devil in their hearts, who give alms in order to remain undisturbed as they themselves throw their money around, who invoke the Fatherland as they fill their own purses by the toil of others, who preach peace and incite to war....

- Hitler in Memoirs of a Confidant, Otto Wagener, edited by Henry Ashby Turner, Jr.. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1985, p.139-140

[Hootad Binky]

The suppression of freedom of opinion, the persecution of the true Christians, the vile mass murders of the Inquisition and the burning of witches, the armed campaigns against the people of free and true Christian faith, the destruction of towns and villages, the hauling away of their cattle and their goods, the destruction of their flourishing economies, and the condemnation of their leaders before tribunals, which, in their unrelenting hypocrisy, can only be described as balaphemous.

Sounds like Hitler's invasion of Europe!

love one another; be considerate of your fellow man; remember that each one of you is not alone a creature of God, but that you are all brothers!

What a sweet man Hitler was, so misunderstood

[Mr Earl]

^Hitler was quite psychotic. Perhaps he's not atheist, but he's certainly no christian!

[stroller]

No, he was not an atheist, so you may take the holocaust and WW2 casualties of your list, which, I note, stands entirely unsubstanciated, even less credible after this major blunder.

Hard to tell whether Hitler really believed or used Christianity, as with many leaders.

I'd venture to say that it was not "the atheists", but the Christians who have the worst record of massmurder, if one considers a concerted, organised effort over a period of almost 2000 years of torture and slayings, much of it killing each other in the name of their god.

Barbaric - isn't this what you enjoy so much accusing Islam of? - 2 versions of the same god, it seems.

[Wallace]

If people didn't wage war in the name of one religion or another, they'd only find something else to provide an excuse.

You need to separate the fundamentalist ideals that we should all be Christian, Muslim, or whatever faith, from the fact that most wars are only fought for economic reasons.

The occasional nutter turns up who wants to rule the world, but on the whole, it's usually about power and wealth, or sometimes just trying to survive.

[Hootad Binky]

Barbaric - isn't this what you enjoy so much accusing Islam of? - 2 versions of the same god, it seems.

Who is "you"? And yes, all religions are stupid

How about the Crusades, any economic motive there? or just fanaticism? Yes economics ard geopolitics have a lot to do with it but some people are just dangerously fanatic, or just evil, willing to use religion as a way of increasing their profile, massaging their ego, but also being able to amass fortunes, and manipulate and exploit other people. Psychopaths. How about some of the nastier popes? Or Osama Bin Laden? He certainly qualifies (he hasn't really been in the news lately, though: a really pathetic endictment of the incompetency of American special ops that OBL, once Public Enemy Number One, is now just old news, just a second-hand parody of the bogeyman). Didn't GWB say something about "God told me it was ok to bomb Iraq" or something? God seems to be talking very exclusively to all these people.

[stroller]

Who is "you"?

The poster whose quote I responded to.

[Hootad Binky]

Just heard this on the news:

Archdiocese of Los Angeles may pay victims $650 million

Pending accord said to be largest sex abuse payout


Cardinal Roger M. Mahony has cast himself as an ally of victims but has been accused by them of intransigence. (Stefano Paltera/Associated Press-file)

By Laurie Goodstein, New York Times News Service | July 15, 2007

LOS ANGELES -- Lawyers for more than 500 victims of sexual abuse by Roman Catholic clergy members say they are on the verge of settling their lawsuits against the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for as much as $650 million.

If completed, it would be the largest payout made by any single diocese since the clergy sexual abuse scandals first became public in Boston in 2002. It would dwarf the $85 million paid for 552 claims by the Archdiocese of Boston.

The lawyers in the Los Angeles cases said the settlement could be announced tomorrow , when jury selection is set to begin in the first of the cases. But they said many details remained to be settled and cautioned that the deal could still fall apart because there were so many parties involved. Also, any agreement would require a judge's approval.
Tod M. Tamberg, spokesman for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, said the only comment he could make was, "The Archdiocese will be in court Monday at 9:30 a.m."

A lawyer for the archdiocese did not return calls for comment.

Raymond P. Boucher, the lawyer who is representing 242 of the plaintiffs in the Los Angeles cases, and his co-counsel, Laurence E. Drivon, confirmed yesterday that a deal was imminent, but cautioned that it could still dissolve.

"I think we're committed to getting to the point where we could get it resolved and announce a settlement. I'm more optimistic than I have been," Boucher said.

Drivon said, "The primary motivation for the archdiocese to settle is that it is substantially likely that if they don't resolve these cases they're going to get hit" for much more than $650 million.

The Los Angeles cases have been particularly fraught because they involve so many victims, multiple insurance companies, many Catholic religious orders whose own priests and brothers stand accused, and a prominent archbishop, Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, who has cast himself as an ally of victims but has been accused by them of intransigence.

Lawsuits over sexual abuse have already cost the Roman Catholic Church in the United States more than $1.5 billion. Each diocese must handle the costs on its own, with no assistance from the Vatican. Few cases have gone to trial, usually because of laws on the statute of limitations.

Settlements are far more common, and victims in California have consistently won some of the largest payouts. In California, the Diocese of Orange paid $100 million for 90 abuse claims in 2004 and the Diocese of Oakland paid $56 million to 56 people in 2005. The Diocese of Covington, Ky., paid about $85 million to about 350 people.

The payment settlement reached the Diocese of Orange in 2004 was the largest to date.

Five dioceses have filed for bankruptcy protection: San Diego; Davenport, Iowa; Portland, Ore.; Spokane, Wash.; and Tucson .

Many dioceses in California have been hit by large numbers of lawsuits because the state passed a law in 2002 that opened a one-year window for cases to be filed without regard to the statute of limitations.

Steven Sanchez, a 47-year-old financial adviser who is one of the plaintiffs in the case set to begin tomorrow , said he had been girding himself to testify about the abuse he suffered when he was 9 or 10 years old, and he said he wanted to see church officials called to account in a courtroom. Sanchez said he would believe there was a settlement when it was a done deal.

Asked what he would do with the money, should the anticipated settlement be reached, he said simply, "Where can you take that check and cash it that will make you 10 years old again?"

Mahony announced in May that, to raise money for a settlement, the archdiocese would sell its administrative building on Wilshire Boulevard, and might sell about 50 other church properties that were not being used by parishes or schools.

The Associated Press was the first news organization to report yesterday that the Archdiocese of Los Angeles had agreed to a settlement for $600 million to $650 million, and attributed the report to two plaintiffs lawyers who asked for anonymity. Katherine K. Freberg, a lawyer in Irvine who represents 109 victims, said, "We are hopeful that this is going to happen, but we still have some remaining details to work on."

Mahony is expected to be called to testify in the case that is set to begin today, involving what the archdiocese knew about two decades of alleged abuse by one priest -- the late Rev. Clinton Hagenbach, who died in 1987. Mahony became archbishop of Los Angeles in 1985. The trial is only one of more than a dozen scheduled to start before January.

Any settlement would require the archdiocese to make public its confidential files that could shed light on which church officials knew of the abuse accusations, and when they knew, Boucher said. Many of the accused priests had multiple victims because they were moved by their superiors from one parish to another after accusations arose.

The Los Angeles Archdiocese, its insurers, and several Roman Catholic religious orders, including the Carmelites, the Franciscans, and the Jesuits, have already paid a total of $114 million in several separate agreements -- to settle 86 claims.

Mary Grant, 44, an abuse victim whose case was settled by the Diocese of Orange, in California, and is a plaintiff in the Los Angeles cases. Grant is Western regional director of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, and counsels other victims. She said any settlement in Los Angeles would be "a bitter release."

"We understand there are survivors who are desperately in need of medical care, therapy," she said. "They may not be able to go through a trial. But on the other hand, there are many survivors really who've wanted their day in court."

She added: "It's been a long, hard five-year battle for survivors in Los Angeles. So I think that probably a sense of temporary relief that may come from it."

[barbaro]

Just heard this on the news:

Archdiocese of Los Angeles may pay victims $650 million

Pending accord said to be largest sex abuse payout


Cardinal Roger M. Mahony has cast himself as an ally of victims but has been accused by them of intransigence. (Stefano Paltera/Associated Press-file)

By Laurie Goodstein, New York Times News Service | July 15, 2007

LOS ANGELES -- Lawyers for more than 500 victims of sexual abuse by Roman Catholic clergy members say they are on the verge of settling their lawsuits against the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for as much as $650 million.

It just seems these horrible stories never-end. All over the countries. A lot of adults are still screwed up because of these twisted fiddlers.

I have not respect for the Catholic church - they covered these abuses up for many decades.

[kerux]

I'd venture to say that it was not "the atheists", but the Christians who have the worst record of massmurder, if one considers a concerted, organised effort over a period of almost 2000 years of torture and slayings, much of it killing each other in the name of their god.

Let's conveniently ignore the 60 million killed by the Jewish Bolsheviks [atheists] during the Bolshevik Revolution of 1920-1945. And every Communist leader - as Communism was/is a Jewish construct.

A true Christian wouldn't kill anyone but would instead be killed as history shows to be the case. Those you ignorantly refer to were part of Christendom, not Christianity.