Thread: What Will It Take To Get Rid Of ISIS?

I believe I stated toward the front of this thread that it would be fine with me if we just left ISIS and that part of the world alone. There would surely be arab infighting that would keep that region of the world busy for decades.

The west just can't seem to keep their nose out of it due to one thing. OIL. If there were no oil in the region, you would see arab tribes and sects fighting each other in the same way they have for centuries. No need for interdiction.

Now that the west is entrenched there, we have brought the fight to our home countries. Who is at fault? The west is for being greedy bastards. Nobody to blame but ourselves. If we had left all alone in that region the world would not be in the mess it is now.

The west will never learn. Think about that the next time you get angry at any muslim extremists.

Check this out, a politician capable to being objective and truthful and proposes rational action, and on cnn no less.

Someone like this should be president, not cockroaches like obomber and hitlery.

world leaders have fucked up the world before, see WW1 and WW2

what make you think they will not be successful at repeating their mistakes again this time ?

Because we are better informed than our ancestors.. well some of us

the only good news is that those leaders don't survive their own fuckups,

and neither get the trial they deserve

Originally Posted by OhOh

Putin and Xi have stabbed Assad in the back.

It appears that the UNSC passed a resolution last week. It appears to condemn terrorists world wide and asks all countries "near and far" to participate in legal actions against them.

Security Council ?Unequivocally? Condemns ISIL Terrorist Attacks, Unanimously Adopting Text that Determines Extremist Group Poses ?Unprecedented? Threat | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

Unfortunately it only specifically mentions Iraq and Syria as terrorist "havens". One would have suspected some blanket coverage to cover all terrorist actions, throughout the world would have been more appropriate. Who is going to attack terrorists in China, who in Russia, who in Africa, who in Israel, who in Yemen, who in France, who in UK or Ameristan ........? Does a terrorist have to wear a black costume or are bankers, politicians and weapons manufacturers not considered terrorist? Is it just carte blanche, come and bomb who you like in Syria and Iraq?

Their is a call to act legally, but as we know legal to one countries leader may be different form another's interpretation.

Already Turkey has taken some of Syria, threatened Russia if it attacks it's planes, soldiers and called for a no-fly zone. All backed by the unexceptional empire.

http://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-cri...m-daeshhttp://

Turkey gets toehold on Syrian territory, finally | Asia Times

Turkey gets toehold on Syrian territory, finally | Asia Times

"At any rate, the strategic ambiguity has just ended. The ‘breaking news’ from Ankara says Syrian opposition group Al-Sultan Murad Brigades “supported by Turkish and US war planes took control of two Turkmen towns in northern Syria” early Saturday. The reports say six Turkish F-16 aircraft, four US F-15 fighter jets and an American AC-130 took part in the operation along with three drones."

A sad day for the world.

The turks could have choked the life out of isis a long time ago by properly policing its border with syria and not allowing isis to be supplied from turkey, apparently isis fighters can even go yo turkey for medical treatment, they prefer to go after the kurds who are the only force actually fighting isis and doing a good job of it.

And of course the usa could have bombed the oil fields and oil supply chain as they are doing now a long time ago as well as put pressure on the saudis to stop financing isis.

Its no surprise that russian involvement is a caratlyst for concrete steps to be taken to start stabilising the region.

Originally Posted by longway

Check this out, a politician capable to being objective and truthful and proposes rational action, and on cnn no less.

Someone like this should be president, not cockroaches like obomber and hitlery.

She's good. Real good. I like her.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by longway

Check this out, a politician capable to being objective and truthful and proposes rational action, and on cnn no less.

Someone like this should be president, not cockroaches like obomber and hitlery.

She's good. Real good. I like her.

Unfortunately, she is just an historical oddity that come around few and far, as such applies to the mindset and character of the U.S. Congress, whom historically adhere to the firm establishment.

Imagine if she and her mirrored political cohorts were in the majority consistently - cycled in and out.

^^ I like her too.

^ Unfortunately you are right, we should be getting more men and women like her, but unfortunately its the shills that get into positions of power.

All we will get is more war, more terrorism, more instability, and more loss of our liberties.

This is what shillary represents.

Thanks to America's misguided policies, we now have wars and violence raging across a 5,000-mile stretch from Bamako, Mali to Kabul, Afghanistan, with a U.S. hand in starting and stoking the violence. Libya, Sudan, the Sinai, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan are all cases where the U.S. has directly intervened with very adverse results. Mali, Chad, Central African Republic, Somalia are some of the many other countries indirectly caught up in turmoil unleashed by U.S. covert and overt operations.

Of course the U.S. is not solely to blame for all of this. Countries across the Sahel, Horn of Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia are impoverished, suffering from food shortages and hunger, high joblessness, global warming, severe droughts, illiteracy, and the impact of dysfunctional or non-existent schools. The region still reels from the artificial borders and the cynical actions of the colonial powers, Britain and France, after World War I. The British Empire, of course, was key to entrenching radical Wahabism in Saudi Arabia, which now provides cash and ideological support for many of the Sunni jihadists.

Until today, Clinton has not acknowledged the roots of the conflict in the region, including the disastrous role that the U.S. has played, including under her watch as Secretary of State. She has not been a mastermind of it, but has been a loyal backer carried along by the CIA, the broader military-industrial-intelligence complex, and the conventional neocon thinking in DC. That's no doubt good for her national politics. It's hard to run for President as an opponent of the permanent U.S. security state. Being a card-carrying member of the U.S. security establishment is the mainstream media's definition of a "serious" candidate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffre...b_8627042.html

Originally Posted by Neverna

She's good. Real good. I like her.

Indeed. Combat veterans understand more about the futility of war and the need to use it only as a very last resort. Do we see a future prez in the making? Oops. Never mind. She's one of them heathen hindus.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by longway

Check this out, a politician capable to being objective and truthful and proposes rational action, and on cnn no less.

Someone like this should be president, not cockroaches like obomber and hitlery.

She's good. Real good. I like her.

And proper buff too.
Little Angel.

What's [or who] the real destructive force of the world.

Think carefully....
Then you'll realize what entity needs to be rid of.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/brussellockdown

Gotta love Frankie Boyle:

There were a lot of tributes after the horror in Paris. It has to be said that Trafalgar Square is an odd choice of venue to show solidarity with France; presumably Waterloo was too busy. One of the most appropriate tributes was Adele dedicating Hometown Glory to Paris, just as the raids on St-Denis started. A song about south London where, 10 years ago, armed police decided to hysterically blow the face off a man just because he was a bit beige.

In times of crisis, we are made to feel we should scrutinise our government’s actions less closely, when surely that’s when we should pay closest attention. There’s a feeling that after an atrocity history and context become less relevant, when surely these are actually the worst times for a society to go on psychopathic autopilot. Our attitudes are fostered by a society built on ideas of dominance, where the solution to crises are force and action, rather than reflection and compromise.

If that sounds unbearably drippy, just humour me for a second and imagine a country where the response to Paris involved an urgent debate about how to make public spaces safer and marginalised groups less vulnerable to radicalisation. Do you honestly feel safer with a debate centred around when we can turn some desert town 3,000 miles away into a sheet of glass? Of course, it’s not as if the west hasn’t learned any lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan. This time round, no one’s said out loud that we’re going to win.

People seem concerned to make sure that Islam gets its full share of the blame, so we get the unedifying circus of neocons invoking God as much as the killers. “Well, Isis say they’re motivated by God.” Yes, and people who have sex with their pets say they’re motivated by love, but most of us don’t really believe them. Not that I’m any friend of religion – let’s blame religion for whatever we can. Let’s blame anyone who invokes the name of any deity just because they want to ruin our weekend, starting with TGI Friday’s.

The ringleader, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, evaded detection by security services by having a name too long to fit into one tweet. How could the most stringent surveillance in the world not have picked up Abdelhamid Abaaoud before? I mean, they’d have got him even if they just went through lists of terrorists alphabetically.

We’re always dealing with terror in retrospect – like stocking up on Imodium rather than reading the cooking instructions on your mini kievs. The truth is that modern governments sit at the head of a well-funded security apparatus. They are told that foreign military adventures put domestic populations at risk and they give them the thumbs up anyway. Charitably, the safety of their populations just aren’t of great concern to them. Realistically, domestic terrorist attacks play into their agenda: they allow them to grab ever more authoritarian powers with which to police their increasingly unequal and volatile societies. Of course, no one wants to believe that our government isn’t interested in our safety, just like everyone really wanted to believe that Jimmy Savile cared about whether kids got to meet Duran Duran.

It’s not an insult to the dead to wonder why France, a $2tn economy, couldn’t make a better offer to its disenfranchised youth than a bunch of sick bullies grooming them on the internet. It’s not apologism to try to understand why something happened. When Syria’s drought kicked in, 25% of the population became unemployed. The vast majority of the country’s livestock has died over the past decade. A lot of Isis are farmers with nowhere to go, their entire industry destroyed – you’d think they’d have more sympathy for journalists. Those who think radicalising a youngster has nothing to do with climate – have you seen Tatooine?

No one is saying climate change causes terrorism. Stop thinking that a global death cult is caused by one thing – it’s a complex situation involving several different countries and ideologies, not a rattling sound in your washing machine. Personally, I think that for all our blaming religion, there will be peace in the Middle East when the oil runs out. But knowing their luck, then somebody will invent a way of making fuel by mixing sand and falafel.

Maybe the west’s approach is right. After all, if you’ve got a massive fight in, say, a pub car park, the best way of solving it is clearly standing well back and randomly lobbing in fireworks. You can’t get rid of an ideology by destroying its leaders; you’d think if there’s anything “Christian” countries should know, it’s that. Europe has rejected the death penalty on moral grounds, and yet we relax this view when it comes to a group who want to be martyred. You can’t bomb ideas. If your kid shits on the carpet, you can’t stop them by bombing the person who invented shit – though it would tidy up ITV’s Saturday night schedule.

Andrew Neil went viral with an impassioned eulogy that, like most eulogies, was just inaccurate nonsense in the form of nice memorable words strung together with angry sad words. A speech that would have made those named within it proud, but only because a good few of them were nihilistic absurdists. Listing the great French thinkers in a tribute to nuclear power showcased the worst aspect of historical fame: these were figures Neil could name but appeared to know nothing about.

For a list supporting the French government’s foray into bombing its former colony he chose Satie, a composer so questioning of state he put a question mark into La Marseillaise; Zola, a man so adamant about the function of a fair and full trial he may have been murdered for his beliefs; Rousseau – “Those who think themselves masters of others are greater slaves than they”; Ravel, who rejected all state honours; Gauguin, a passionate defender of indigenous peoples; and Camus, the great Algerian-born philosopher, who died in 1960, a year before he would’ve been thrown into the Seine at the orders of the Nazi head of the Parisian police.

Out of his list of peacenik, thoughtful, anti-government icons, one of the few who might have been in favour of bombing Syria was Sartre, and that’s only because he thought we were all dead anyway. Of course, we mustn’t forget Coco Chanel, who Neil threw on to the list in such a blatant “if we don’t include a woman we’ll get into trouble” rush, he didn’t notice a quick wiki would reveal her to be a Nazi spy. These are the people who made France great, because what they asked of France was to question, to look death in the eye, to commit to full trials and never resort to military force, to step away from government, away from indigenous lands, to never see themselves as superior, and most, most of all, for people to stop regurgitating rhetorical cliches and think for themselves.

Neil asked us to consider who will be remembered in 1,000 years, and the answer of course is Thkkkkkkkzzzzxrrkksd, the insane Cockroach Emperor, who revolutionised the mining of our bones for fuel. But let’s go with his conceit. A thousand years is a long time; the first book published in French wasn’t until 1476. Goodness knows what an Islamic caliphate would have been doing 1,000 years ago? They built the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, one of the first universities in the world; they asked scholars of all faiths to translate every text ever written into Arabic; they demanded the first qualifications for doctors, founded the first psychiatric hospitals and invented ophthalmology. They developed algebra (algorithms are named after their Arab father) and a programmable machine … a computer. They introduced Aristotle to Europe, Al-Jahiz began theories of natural selection, they discovered the Andromeda galaxy, classified the spinal nerves and created hydropower using pumps and gears.

And Neil is right – we don’t remember any of that. Not to say that this is what Isis want – Isis are like the group that closed the House of Wisdom, the next caliphate who decided science was irreligious. Isis want to destroy the knowledge that Islam is a beautiful, scientific and intelligent culture, and we are way ahead of them.

We want Paris to be remembered in 1,000 years and we don’t remember the names of the victims 10 minutes after reading them – we don’t remember Amine Ibnolmobarak, a Moroccan émigré who was designing an architectural solution to the 2,000 deaths at Mecca; we don’t remember Elsa Delplace and her mother Patricia San Martin, who died shielding Delplace’s young son from bullets. We remember that the female terrorist was blond and one had no pants on. We remember that the terrorists came in with refugees even though they don’t seem to have done, especially since they were all French or Belgian. We expect our descendants to remember Daft Punk and we don’t even remember that invading Iraq caused the birth and rise of Isis. And we won’t remember any of this once the new series of Britain’s Got Talent starts.

Turkey just blew a Russian military jet out of the sky!

Tensions in that part of the world continue to rise and this will not help.Why would they do that when Turkey knew Russia was flying raids in Syria?

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Tensions in that part of the world continue to rise and this will not help.Why would they do that when Turkey knew Russia was flying raids in Syria?

Because they were flying in Turkey?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Tensions in that part of the world continue to rise and this will not help.Why would they do that when Turkey knew Russia was flying raids in Syria?

Because they were flying in Turkey?

You are sure of that how? Seems to be some cotradicting information. Of course Russia always tells the truth.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Tensions in that part of the world continue to rise and this will not help.Why would they do that when Turkey knew Russia was flying raids in Syria?

Because they were flying in Turkey?

You are sure of that how? Seems to be some cotradicting information. Of course Russia always tells the truth.

Well they just showed a track on the news and it looks pretty unequivocal - but they bit of Turkey they flew through is rather slender.

To give you an idea, I've driven down from Dubai down to Hatta Fort (on the Oman border) and you pass through a "finger" of Oman to get to it.

There's a road sign that says "Welcome to the Sultanate of Oman", and then a minute later there's another one that says "Thanks for visiting the Sultanate of Oman".

If you weren't looking closely, you'd have no idea you'd just entered and left another country....

PM should order inquiry into funding of jihadism, Paddy Ashdown says | Politics | The Guardian

PM should order inquiry into funding of jihadism, Paddy Ashdown says

David Cameron should order a proper inquiry into the funding of jihadism or face questions about the closeness of the Conservative party to “rich Arab Gulf individuals”, Paddy Ashdown, the former diplomat and ex-Lib Dem leader, has said.

Lord Ashdown, who was a high representative to Bosnia and for the UN in Afghanistan, said there had been a “failure to put pressure on the Gulf states, especially Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to stop funding the salafists and wahhabists and secondly to play a larger part” in the campaign against Isis.

The former Lib Dem leader also called for the UK to tackle Isis as a priority over demanding the end to the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad, who is thought to have used chemical weapons on his own people.

“I think we should be impatient about the removal of Isil and I think we should be more patient about the removal of Assad,” he said.

Ashdown’s demand for an inquiry into Saudi funding of jihadism echoes calls by Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, to examine the arming of Isis and role of funds from Saudi Arabian sources.

“Who is arming Isis, who is providing safe havens for Isis? To get there you have to ask questions about the arms everyone’s sold in the region, the role of Saudi Arabia in this. I think there are some very big questions and we have to be careful,” he told ITV1’s Lorraine programme last week.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by longway

Check this out, a politician capable to being objective and truthful and proposes rational action, and on cnn no less.

Someone like this should be president, not cockroaches like obomber and hitlery.

She hasn't got a fucking clue. Essentially saying that Assad should have remained untouched in case it brought the US into conflict with Russia. Great idea....

Assad has pulled Putin's plonker from the beginning and look at the mess we're in now.

Assad should have either helped get rid of him or STFU and let someone else do it.

And she should stick to watching Hawaii Five-0.

Does anyone pay attention to this nitwit?

Sometimes I think he's trying to play devils advocate, but mostly he comes across as having senile dementia

So I assume neither of you morons bothered watching the video then.



Although I have corrected my obvious typo; I meant Putin should have helped get rid of him, etc.

But one hopes you would have been bright enough to work that out, although I'm not entirely sure.