The 'Americans Getting Shot' Thread

[Paddy Whackery]

What is the fascination with shootings in America? Does everyone not have anything better to debate or is it that so many enjoy bashing the US?.......

If you are American and have lived in an environment of US gun control, then I would think your opinion is worth listening to. If you are from another country and know fuck all about being a US citizen, then you need to stick to topics you may actually have some knowledge of.

I'm with you Rick. Oh, & I was an FFL holder for 6 years. I know a bit of what I speak. Don't let the paddywhackery Limeys get ya down.

I happen to have lived in NYC for 20 years and gun crime was all around, a daily occurrence. So common place, you almost get used to it. I worked in the worst neighborhoods in Brooklyn, including the housing projects. Chinese food delivery guys have been shot dead for $20 or less... Three kids were shot dead on the corner one night just because somebody thought "somebody was looking at him the wrong way"...Mayor Bloomberg tried everything to halt the flow of handguns into the city. It's just one massacre after another and the politicians (read "Congressmen") are either uninterested or unable to do anything about it.

[Neo]

As you say paddy, it's so commonplace people are just used to it, and with that complacency comes a lack of responsibility. From the perspective of an outsider it borders on a national psychosis how tragic events can be dismissed as everyday occurrences without steps being taken to rectify the root cause of the tragedy.

It's not about responsible gun ownership, it's about the overwhelming irresponsible gun ownership and the consequences of a domestic arms race.

The first article is a case in point. A society in fear. A policeman without culpability. A homeowner that is armed.

Consequence = The death of an innocent man.

The American attitude.. that's just the way it is.

Rather than try to fix a culture in decline, the reaction is to selfishly dismiss it as someone else's problem, the result of someone else's irresponsibility.

As an outsider I have a better perspective than a US citizen as to just how morally corrupt that attitude is.

[Lancelot]

What is the fascination with shootings in America? Does everyone not have anything better to debate or is it that so many enjoy bashing the US?

A lot of miserable guys on Teak Door that only find purpose to their miserable lives by bad mouthing the US...

[helge]

What is the fascination with shootings in America? Does everyone not have anything better to debate or is it that so many enjoy bashing the US?

A lot of miserable guys on Teak Door that only find purpose to their miserable lives by bad mouthing the US...

We only find you exotic. You have your own charm

Please nominate Sarah Palin

[Lancelot]

What is the fascination with shootings in America? Does everyone not have anything better to debate or is it that so many enjoy bashing the US?

A lot of miserable guys on Teak Door that only find purpose to their miserable lives by bad mouthing the US...

We only find you exotic. You have your own charm

Please nominate Sarah Palin

You gotta be kidding me, Sarah Palin? She was out of her depth as Governor of Alaska, let alone POTUS. No matter where you are from, you have your right wing politicians too...

Several of the recent accidental shooting in the US (by kids) is on the parents. WTF were they doing with a loaded weapon in the reach of a two year old? People have forgotten basic weapons training, like NEVER leave a pistol where a child can access it.

If there are too many accidental shootings -which there are- then why don't we also address an even larger menace to society, such as traffic accidents. If the folks that want to dictate how others should live want to be truly progressive, then why not ban automobiles? Tobacco? Alcohol?

Which kills the most people?

Some see any disagreement as "exotic" others see the hypocritical and blatant anti US bias of this web site for what it is...

[BaitongBoy]

If there are too many accidental shootings -which there are- then why don't we also address an even larger menace to society, such as traffic accidents. If the folks that want to dictate how others should live want to be truly progressive, then why not ban automobiles? Tobacco? Alcohol?

I'm sure that these subjects are already being discussed in many venues...

This happens to pertain to guns and "Americans Getting Shot"...

[rickschoppers]

As you say paddy, it's so commonplace people are just used to it, and with that complacency comes a lack of responsibility. From the perspective of an outsider it borders on a national psychosis how tragic events can be dismissed as everyday occurrences without steps being taken to rectify the root cause of the tragedy.

It's not about responsible gun ownership, it's about the overwhelming irresponsible gun ownership and the consequences of a domestic arms race.

The first article is a case in point. A society in fear. A policeman without culpability. A homeowner that is armed.

Consequence = The death of an innocent man.

The American attitude.. that's just the way it is.

Rather than try to fix a culture in decline, the reaction is to selfishly dismiss it as someone else's problem, the result of someone else's irresponsibility.
K
As an outsider I have a better perspective than a US citizen as to just how morally corrupt that attitude is.

At least you have admitted you are an outsider and that your perspective is that of one who does not understand the full story like Paddy. Even though Paddy may be against gun ownership, at least he has lived in an environment where having a weapon for protection might be understood.

Neo, please refrain from acting like you know what the issues are in the US and I will not act like I know your homeland issues, and I am sure there are many.

[bsnub]

I've watched every episode of Deadliest Catch and them fishermen don't wear a sidearm.

They also happen to be in the middle of the Bering Sea. Not all fishing takes place far out at sea. Many boats fish closer in and return to harbor at the end of the day. Those little fishing towns have plenty of bears close by. While I may not of always carried a firearm I was usually not far from one or someone else that had one.

[Topper]

While I may not of always carried a firearm I was usually not far from one or someone else that had one.

That sounds more realistic....the same with me in Kentucky.

So, what 's the solution?

What can lawmakers do?

First, licensing. If you want to drive a car, you've got to pass a test so you don't kill yourself or others. Seems reasonable that owning a gun would carry the same requirement.
No license, no gun.

Secondly, banning the everyday sales of semi automatic pistols and rifles to be a good start. Seriously, what does the average American need an AR-15 or an AK for? Why does anyone need a 15 shot Glock? Also ban the sales of ammo/reloading equipment for the same class of weapons. Let the buyer qualify for a license showing they know how to operate such a weapon safely and then they can buy one.

I think that would be a good start, but getting the NRA to accept that with ownership comes responsibility would be tough.

Last, penalties....

You commit a crime with a gun in which a fatality occurs, you get the death sentence/life in prison with no hope of parole. There's no 20 years for murder plea bargained down to 5 anymore.

Just my musings.....

[Norton]

What can lawmakers do?

Same they been doing since mobi dick was a minnow. Do nothing for fear the gun lobby will make sure they lose the next election.

As is said. Guns don't kill people just makes it easier.

Or something like that.

[Baas Babelaas]

I don't want gun controls in America. I want them to carry on shooting and killing themselves as slowly it's raising the Worlds IQ. In fact let's give them bigger more powerful weapons and let's speed up the process ;-)

What a fucking clown you are. The Keystone Cops are the ones that need to be eliminated, alongside you. Shot to the back of the head, into the ditch yee go.

[fishlocker]

While Im not going to bad mouth my Franchi SPAS (sporting purpose automatic shotgun) again I have often pondered which firearm is my favourite. I can say without a doubt it must be the one you don't control. Oh and I have seen the footage of the police cruiser backing up to let the Charlie killers escape. Out gunned I'd say.
Saw the Thai guy doing a little shuffle dance after he gunned down his girlfriend and her mom in the shop CCTV viewed on pattaya one channel. Crazy perps abound. Many old ladies in Florida packen, crime against them way down after they won the right to carry. Good people get permitted per the law. Fools don't and their kid accidentally shoots them. Kinda makes since to me.

[pseudolus]

Gun crime is a symptom of the abject failure of capitalism USA style.

Simple as that.

[Troy]

I am. And I think American gun laws are beyond stupid. To allow virtually any American adult without a felony conviction to walk the streets, prowl Walmart, or go grocery shopping while carrying a loaded, concealed handgun - which almost all will barely know how to use - is the height of idiocy. I can't think of any other country in the world - or at least in what we claim to be the first/civilized world - that allows Bubba the Braindead the right to stick a .44 Magnum in his pants when he goes down to the local diner for his morning coffee. It's simply a retarded set of laws.

I was going to stay out of this but a pennies' worth to add:

I was a licenced gun holder in the UK and could still be if I lived there. I was trained initially as a child with a .410 bore shotgun as a reward for the many times as a "beater". Military service provided training of various small weapons but in civilian life the 12-bore and .22 rifle were the mainstay of farm work, mainly vermin control as and when required by the community in which I lived. I don't believe there is any problem for me to get a licence renewal in the UK if ever I resettled there and felt the need.

The point is that I never felt the need to own a handgun let alone carry one with me wherever I went so I am surprised the ordinary US housewife feels such insecurity. Certainly in all my time in the US (CA,CO,FL,GA,MN,NV,SC,TN) I never felt the least bit intimidated.

I would say that if I was in DK territory (Philippines) then I would have at least two handguns in easy reach permanently!

[FlyFree]

What is the fascination with shootings in America? Does everyone not have anything better to debate or is it that so many enjoy bashing the US?

A lot of miserable guys on Teak Door that only find purpose to their miserable lives by bad mouthing the US...

There, there. We are just jealous of US exceptionalism.

[Neo]

As you say paddy, it's so commonplace people are just used to it, and with that complacency comes a lack of responsibility. From the perspective of an outsider it borders on a national psychosis how tragic events can be dismissed as everyday occurrences without steps being taken to rectify the root cause of the tragedy.

It's not about responsible gun ownership, it's about the overwhelming irresponsible gun ownership and the consequences of a domestic arms race.

The first article is a case in point. A society in fear. A policeman without culpability. A homeowner that is armed.

Consequence = The death of an innocent man.

The American attitude.. that's just the way it is.

Rather than try to fix a culture in decline, the reaction is to selfishly dismiss it as someone else's problem, the result of someone else's irresponsibility.
K
As an outsider I have a better perspective than a US citizen as to just how morally corrupt that attitude is.

At least you have admitted you are an outsider and that your perspective is that of one who does not understand the full story like Paddy. Even though Paddy may be against gun ownership, at least he has lived in an environment where having a weapon for protection might be understood.

Neo, please refrain from acting like you know what the issues are in the US and I will not act like I know your homeland issues, and I am sure there are many.

Oh yeah Rick you think you're so smart... then help me understand how the weapon in this situation was used for protection.

Please do your best to explain the full story, to an outsider that doesn't understand

[Bettyboo]

I was a licenced gun holder in the UK

I'll add a tad to this.

I know nothing about guns, in fact the 2 or 3 times I've held them I've felt very uncomfortable and put them down. But, me father has some knowledge. In the UK, the police don't have guns. But, me dad, a policeman did. He was in the flying squad, so his job was to catch armed robbers, and due to British laws of the time you pretty much had to catch them in the act of armed robbery. Now, me dad knew very little in comparison with the likes of Davis, who being an army man well involved with guns and wars knows much more, so I'm just talking about society and guns in a British context. Me dad was a police marksman, so he carried a gun on duty. He was well respected and earned some high honours, he also did some international work taking particularly dangerous criminals to other countries (including the US), protected prime ministers, etc, so I listen to his explications with interest because he doesn't talk crap or glorify violence. He was involved in some shootouts in the UK, some quite famous ones, and has told me many times that TV, films, etc are total bollox. He was a good shot, but still explained how in stressful situations just to hit somebody with a shot was very difficult and low percentage, especially with a hand gun. I mean, he says, waiting outside a bank knowing that you were about to shoot somebody, even from a vantage position and only 50 metres or less, you'd probably miss. That's the reality for a trained marksman. So, when folks on the internet claim that guns make the average Joe safer, I struggle to reconcile their words with my father's experiences...

[helge]

What is the fascination with shootings in America? Does everyone not have anything better to debate or is it that so many enjoy bashing the US?

A lot of miserable guys on Teak Door that only find purpose to their miserable lives by bad mouthing the US...

We only find you exotic. You have your own charm

Please nominate Sarah Palin

You gotta be kidding me, Sarah Palin?

Yes; kidding

Palin is in an entertainment class of her own though

Let her run a bit; it's a sad world these days, put a smile on our faces


Please ?

[BaitongBoy]

Go ahead, make my day...

[PeeCoffee]

re: Neo post # 91

Possibly the subject of 'Professional Policing Not Utilized' would possibly explain a larger issue.

Once she was thrown to the ground - why wasn't she 'restrained' (handcuffed at the very least) ?

Maybe have the Mace or baton in your hand as a precautionary measure instead of pulling out 'deadly force'.

[Cujo]

I am surprised the ordinary US housewife feels such insecurity.

I think the problem is the (ahem) 'criminal element' is so huge and THEY all have guns, whereas in the UK not so much, and in the UK if they do have guns they're generally only got out on special occasions.

[Ozcol]

I see quite a lot of people comparing road statistics and gun statistics but try as I might I have yet to see one instance of a toddler pulling a car out of his mothers purse and running someone down, if you can bring forward the statistics on this I would be very interested.

[pseudolus]

I was a licenced gun holder in the UK

I'll add a tad to this.

I know nothing about guns, in fact the 2 or 3 times I've held them I've felt very uncomfortable and put them down. But, me father has some knowledge. In the UK, the police don't have guns. But, me dad, a policeman did. He was in the flying squad, so his job was to catch armed robbers, and due to British laws of the time you pretty much had to catch them in the act of armed robbery. Now, me dad knew very little in comparison with the likes of Davis, who being an army man well involved with guns and wars knows much more, so I'm just talking about society and guns in a British context. Me dad was a police marksman, so he carried a gun on duty. He was well respected and earned some high honours, he also did some international work taking particularly dangerous criminals to other countries (including the US), protected prime ministers, etc, so I listen to his explications with interest because he doesn't talk crap or glorify violence. He was involved in some shootouts in the UK, some quite famous ones, and has told me many times that TV, films, etc are total bollox. He was a good shot, but still explained how in stressful situations just to hit somebody with a shot was very difficult and low percentage, especially with a hand gun. I mean, he says, waiting outside a bank knowing that you were about to shoot somebody, even from a vantage position and only 50 metres or less, you'd probably miss. That's the reality for a trained marksman. So, when folks on the internet claim that guns make the average Joe safer, I struggle to reconcile their words with my father's experiences...

I think your Dad is right which is why they use Heckler & Koch assault rifles; greater accuracy than the hand guns the crims use.

I personally would not want to walk around with a gun all the time; I have a decent sized penis so don't have the self esteem problems that most gun toters have. However, in my youth I did enjoy target shooting (went to Bisley AOSC don't ya know as a yoof cadet and came 3rd in 500 yds). Shooting like this is a sport but unfortunately because a load of idiots think a loaded hand gun in a handbag is a suitable thing to have with young kids about, the rest have to suffer.

Besides, government don't give a fook about the people of their countries, so gun laws are all about finding a balance between selling lots of guns and not allowing too many in the hand of the people who might one day want to use them on the people raping their countries.

[OhOh]

Why dont we discuss why any country would have a queen in todays world when she is basically ineffective and spending a fair amount of the tax payers money?

Oh, but the US does have such a person in the Whits House presently. He is innefective and spends enormouse amounts of taxpayers money. Some of it goes to changing the past versions of police officers to the now compulsary SWAT teams used where more than one unarmed citizen "protests". The Kennedy, Bush and Clintons tried their best to be "royalty" and hand down "power" to their kin.

in fact we can arrest actual dangerous criminals without using guns and without killing anyone.

Try walking home with a table leg in the North! try walking past a police officer in central London. One push and your dead!

Dixon of Dock green is a pleasant but not accurate picture of UK policing now.

I grew up on a 100-acre tree farm in rural New Hampshire

Many people in the UK have access to farms where they shoot all manner of game. They return home with their produce and eat it. They put their shotgun or rifle away in their home.

There is simply NO reason for the average citizen to feel the need for a concealed handgun. NONE.

Their is no reason to OWN a handgun accourding to BSNUB.

America is frankly not very dangerous however I do support the rights of others to do so.

The right to own a gun in the USA was when the government forces has similar weapons to the citizens. That is not the case now and any inference that the citizens would be able to rise up against the government, state or even city "law enforcers" is laughable.

[rickschoppers]

As you say paddy, it's so commonplace people are just used to it, and with that complacency comes a lack of responsibility. From the perspective of an outsider it borders on a national psychosis how tragic events can be dismissed as everyday occurrences without steps being taken to rectify the root cause of the tragedy.

It's not about responsible gun ownership, it's about the overwhelming irresponsible gun ownership and the consequences of a domestic arms race.

The first article is a case in point. A society in fear. A policeman without culpability. A homeowner that is armed.

Consequence = The death of an innocent man.

The American attitude.. that's just the way it is.

Rather than try to fix a culture in decline, the reaction is to selfishly dismiss it as someone else's problem, the result of someone else's irresponsibility.
K
As an outsider I have a better perspective than a US citizen as to just how morally corrupt that attitude is.

At least you have admitted you are an outsider and that your perspective is that of one who does not understand the full story like Paddy. Even though Paddy may be against gun ownership, at least he has lived in an environment where having a weapon for protection might be understood.

Neo, please refrain from acting like you know what the issues are in the US and I will not act like I know your homeland issues, and I am sure there are many.

Oh yeah Rick you think you're so smart... then help me understand how the weapon in this situation was used for protection.

Please do your best to explain the full story, to an outsider that doesn't understand

Oh yeah Neo, oh yeah. You sound like a scholllyard bully looking for a scuffle. Grow up Neo and get a clue.

I have no wish to explain your silly video to you and how it relates to firearm ownership in the US. You have already admitted to being an outsider and therefore explaining anything you do not understand is a waste of time.