Thread: The reason why I don't want to live in the UK

There are a number of reasons why I don't want to live in the UK. But this, well, is a reason I won't move back. Who the fcuk do they think they are? They can just walk over any rights we, "so-called", have now.

top and quiz powers considered
Police would stop and question rather than stop and search

The government is considering giving police officers across the UK "stop and question" powers under new anti-terror laws, says the Home Office.
The proposal, allowing police to ask people about their identity and movement, is among measures being considered by Home Secretary John Reid.
The measure is so far used only in Northern Ireland.
Police elsewhere have to have "reasonable suspicion" a crime has been committed before they can stop people.
Anyone who refuses to co-operate could be charged with obstructing the police and fined up to £5,000, according to the Sunday Times.
A Home Office spokeswoman said: "We are considering a range of measures for the Bill and 'stop and question' is one of them."
Political correspondent Norman Smith said the proposals were likely to be "hugely controversial".
'National security'
When it emerged on Thursday that three men suspected of wanting to kill UK troops had disappeared, Mr Reid criticised his political opponents and judges for stopping the use of tougher measures against terror suspects.
He promised new anti-terror measures within weeks which he said he hoped there would be "less party politics" and more about the concern "for national security".
Stopping and questioning anyone you like will backfire because people will be being criminalised


Shami Chakrabarti
Director of Liberty


The Home Office would not comment on suggestions the new laws were to be rushed through before Tony Blair steps down as prime minister on 27 June.
Greater powers to remove vehicles and paperwork for inspection are also believed to be part of the measures.
Writing separately in the Daily Telegraph, Mr Blair said the disappearance of the three suspects under control orders was a symptom of a society which put civil liberties before fighting terror.
The prime minister described this as "misguided and wrong" and said prioritising a terror suspect's right to traditional civil liberties was "a dangerous misjudgement".
'Political machismo'
The Sunday Times claims police minister Tony McNulty told Mr Blair the new "stop and question" measures would be "very useful UK wide".
It quoted a letter sent to the prime minister which said the measures would be "a less intrusive power" than stop and search, which are widely seen as unpopular with the public.
However, campaign group Liberty criticised the proposals saying the police should not have powers to question people "willy-nilly".
Director Shami Chakrabarti said: "This looks like political machismo, a legacy moment.
"Stopping and questioning anyone you like will backfire because people will be being criminalised."
Jane Winter, director of British-Irish Rights Watch, told the Sunday Times the government was using "a sledgehammer to crack a nut".

source: BBC NEWS | UK | Stop and quiz powers considered

I keep waiting for the public to react to the accelerating erosion of rights in the US and UK. Sadly, it just isn't happening. Will people ever wake up?

Originally Posted by William

was a symptom of a society which put civil liberties before fighting terror.

Very strange and disturbing thing for him to say.....I bet he wouldn't have said something like that when he first came to power.

"If you have nothing to hide..."

^the mantra of our era

I guess that's the dichotomy. On the one hand you have a serious and real danger. On the other side, you put in place in laws that have a real, long-term, impact.

Now, where have I seen this before...


... oh "yes", ET phone home

From the Sunday Times:

Under the new laws, police will not need to suspect that a crime has taken place and can use the power to gain information about “matters relevant” to terror investigations.

If suspects fail to stop or refuse to answer questions, they could be charged with a criminal offence and fined up to £5,000. Police already have the power to stop and search people but they have no right to ask for their identity and movements

Jane Winter, director of British Irish Rights Watch, said: “This is one of the most significant moves on civil liberties since the second world war, a sledgehammer to crack a nut. This looks like a return to the ‘sus’ laws, except even then the police needed to have some suspicion.”

Shami Chakrabati, director of the civil rights group Liberty, said: “The police should not have powers to run around questioning people willy-nilly.”

"sledgehammer to crack a nut".....fcking idiot!

We've had all this in 30's Germany: "Are your papers in order?"

Originally Posted by stroller

We've had all this in 30's Germany: "Are your papers in order?"

Well at least our trains might start running on time.

I can understand the fears that people are voicing, but I really do not think that 99.5% of the population will be affected - whereas a significant percentage of the population would be affected by an atrocity - And not just the immediate event, such is the nature and makeup of British society that a violent response could occur - a pogrom maybe - These are the stakes.

^I think it's the other way round danbo, 60 million people will be affected by the new laws, whereas only a small percentage would be involved in any attrocity.

Also, once the terrorist threat has gone will the laws be repealed? Doubt it.

Wasn't the actual threat of attacks greater during the years when the IRA were doing their mainland bombings, it certainly was up in the North West of England.

Originally Posted by NickA

60 million people will be affected by the new laws

Poo and nonsense. It will have absolutely no affect on the lives of the vast, vast majority of people living in the UK

Originally Posted by NickA

whereas only a small percentage would be involved in any atrocity.

The Muslim communities in the UK are concentrated in a few areas. A major atrocity perpetrated in the name of Islam could well trigger a violent reaction against these areas from the non Muslim populace - This could escalate to goodness knows where - The British Government is walking a tightrope in trying to maintain both law and order and community relations.

Originally Posted by NickA

Wasn't the actual threat of attacks greater during the years when the IRA were doing their mainland bombings, it certainly was up in the North West of England.

No, and no it wasn't. Even at their most craven the IRA never attempted deliberate mass murder of civilians - I'm in no way whatsoever defending the actions of the IRA here by the way.

Originally Posted by William

There are a number of reasons why I don't want to live in the UK. But this, well, is a reason I won't move back. Who the fcuk do they think they are? They can just walk over any rights we, "so-called", have now.

Thank God it would never happen in Thailand.

The government is considering giving police officers across the UK "stop and question" powers under new anti-terror laws, says the Home Office.

Just to clarify - these powers are only concerned with investigations into, and suspicions of, suspected terrorist activity.

Originally Posted by danbo

the IRA never attempted deliberate mass murder of civilians

According to the CAIN research project at the University of Ulster, [84] the Provisional IRA was responsible for the deaths of 1,821 people during the Troubles up to 2001. This figure represents 48.4 percent of the total fatalities in the conflict.

• 621 of these casualties were civilians.

From Wiki... Provisional IRA campaign 1969–1997 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by danbo

Just to clarify - these powers are only concerned with investigations into, and suspicions of, suspected terrorist activity.

So it won't affect me or you, they will only stop muslims or people with moustaches.

That's OK then

Oh goodness I feared this....I am in no way disputing the murderous nature of the IRA....You brought them into the discussion by saying that the threat was greater when they were active. I responded by stating that the threat is greater now as the terrorist threat is deliberate mass murder without discrimination.

So it won't affect me or you, they will only stop muslims or people with moustaches.

You are sleepwalking Nick. The unfortunate fact is that you and your ilk are likely to be woken by a very loud bang.

How much freedom are some people willing to give up for the illusion of security? Isn't this more about the government taking the opportunity to seize more power and diminish freedom than really doing anything to protect the whole?

"Trust us." - The Government.

During my recent trip to Thailand I was chastised by an American because I accidentally had a bottle of water in my carry-on bag at CKS Airport in Taiwan (I picked it up from EVA's lounge in Seattle). I promptly told him to go fuck himself...that sheep like him are what the terrorists are counting on to be successful...if he's scared of a bottle of water then the terrorists indeed have won.

If the goverment wishes to protect people then better intelligence gathering and evaulation is proper way to respond...not more and more erosion of rights and pivvys.

Originally Posted by danbo

You are sleepwalking Nick. The unfortunate fact is that you and your ilk are likely to be woken by a very loud bang.

I've got to say that for the first time in your 3730 most respactable and witty posts, you are far wide of the mark, Sonny Jim.

You are so very very wrong.

Very wrong.


It wasn't an elk, it was a llama.



But, what i want to know is how you knew about my dream last night.

I will have to agree with surasak, but I am the only one because it might step on someones HUMAN RIGHTS,,, fuk em, call out the old CIA.

But I have lived longer than some on here, well a lot longer than most on here and I was raised mostly in the high country and away from a town of any size, and I do remember all the freedoms that we had then, and folks now say that they have lots of freedoms, I would like to know where the hell they are.
The govts. are not stupid, take a little from the people every year and do it quietly, then you can pop a biggie every once in awhile, they will remember that one but none of the others, I have 4 generations that are alive now after me, counting my mother there is 6 of us alive today and my great grandkids will never know 1/10 of the freedoms that I had while I was growing up.
But they have been taken so slowly that I sometimes do something that was legal and is now a grey bar offense.

I agree with Danbo on this point. I think most people are overreacting to it.
I don't think it is unreasonable that a police force should be able to question people whom they think are acting suspiciously.