Thread: The Confederate Flag

Hazz and MrG,

Please put up documented facts to support your arguments.

We're waiting.

So what, exactly, is your point about freed slaves, BH?

The Proclamation applied only to slaves in Confederate-held lands; it did not apply to those in the four slave states that were not in rebellion (Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, and Missouri, which were unnamed), nor to Tennessee (unnamed but occupied by Union troops since 1862) and lower Louisiana (also under occupation), and specifically excluded those counties of Virginia soon to form the state of West Virginia. Also specifically excluded (by name) were some regions already controlled by the Union army. Emancipation in those places would come after separate state actions and/or the December 1865 ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment, which made slavery and indentured servitude, except for those duly convicted of a crime, illegal everywhere subject to United States jurisdiction.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation

The reason the Confederate flag has been banned from display on State property (only) is because it has been hijabed, by bigots and racists. Fair enough. But this has nothing to do with the reasons for the Civil War. They are mainly economic. The majority of US federal government revenue was derived from imposts on exports. Some 75-80% of US exports at the time, came from the agricultural south, The South threatened to, indeed wanted to, secede. Can't have that, can we? Do the maths.

Originally Posted by sabang

But this has nothing to do with the reasons for the Civil War. They are mainly economic

A contributing cause but not the primary cause.

Originally Posted by hazz

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Hazz and MrG,

Please put up documented facts to support your arguments.

We're waiting.

The reason you have managed to get it so wrong, is you go round reading websites that tell you a lie, which you believe because you would like it to be true.

They lied to you by cherry picking a short quote from a much larger letter. the quote out of context does support what you want to eb true, but if one has the sense to find and read the whole letter one can see just how badly you have been lied to.

As for documented facts, I have already posted a paragraph or two from the letter your original quote comes from... you probably missed it because its a fact that does not agree with you. As you have funny reasserted this matter I am sure you already know which letter the quotes are from and where to find the whole letter verbatim.

I had to take an American History class to get credits in my second year. It covered the civil war and historians on the matter.

I read up on the Civil War and American hisotry of the 19th Century years ago and recently started watching historical documentaries - made by scholars who've written a lot on the matter.

I've been to Getysburg twice and Manassas/Bull Run. Also, Harper's Ferry, West Virginia where Brown was.

My posts were calling out this 5 minute "history" video by this West Point history teacher had false information - which I've noted about - and also deceit by ommission.

He never mentioned the Tariff Act of 1828 or the Morill Tariff.

How can you in 5 minutes.

Look at history yourself.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

I had to take an American History class to get credits in my second year. It covered the civil war and historians on the matter

I minored in US History at the UW Madison. Had a third year class on the Civil War taught by a very notable scholar. He heavily emphasized the economic reasons for the war, notable, high tarriffs but he always stressed that slavery was the primary cause of the war because the South's economy was only sustainable by slave labor.

Black all I did was red you post, decided it didn't pass the bs sniff test and then check out some of your quotes to see if they were real.

The quotes were real, but carefully cherry picked and edited to give the impression that you wanted, an impression that was the polar opposite one gets by reading the whole text that you quoted from.

The civil war started because the south wanted to leave the union, the north did not want them to and both sides were prepared to kill over this issue.

The south needed to leave the union because it could no longer dominate the politics of the union, thus loosing its ability to prevent changes within the union that were a direct threat to the economic viability of southern society.... a parasitical existence depending upon slave labor for its very existence.... a problem for the north where slavery clashed with the core values of modern Christianity. An issue which escalated into pure nationalism at its worst.

^ Off topic I know but it's weird having a "Hazz" poster and a "hazz" poster.

Originally Posted by Humbert

Originally Posted by Black Heart

I had to take an American History class to get credits in my second year. It covered the civil war and historians on the matter

I minored in US History at the UW Madison. Had a third year class on the Civil War taught by a very notable scholar. He heavily emphasized the economic reasons for the war, notable, high tarriffs but he always stressed that slavery was the primary cause of the war because the South's economy was only sustainable by slave labor.

I know this.

I never said it wasn't.

Time to Change Mississippi Flag, Steve Earle says in Song



JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI—
Country rockers Steve Earle & The Dukes have released a new song exhorting Mississippi to remove the Confederate battle emblem from the state flag.

The single, "It's Time, Mississippi,'' went on sale Friday as a fundraiser for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Virginia native Earle sings that he comes from a "long, long line / of a Rebel strain / but the wind has changed.''

Old South symbols have been widely debated since the June 17 massacre of nine black worshippers at a church in Charleston, South Carolina. The man charged in the slayings had previously posed for online photos, holding the Confederate battle flag.

Soon after the killings, the Confederate battle flag was removed from state Capitol grounds by lawmakers in South Carolina and by the governor in Alabama. But Mississippi continues to fly the state flag it has used since 1894, with the rebel emblem in one corner.

more Time to Change Mississippi Flag, Steve Earle says in Song

Dear God, we'll have several posters along in a minute all 'ya'll' over this

Yes but they'll be all hat and no cattle.

Why not take a Statewide referendum on the State flag, M'suppi? Let the people decide.

Wow....when did this policy for the Marines go into effect?

Arkansas teen says he was turned away from Marines because of his Confederate flag tattoo

Anthony Bauswell, 18, has the rebel flag inked on his rib
He said he got 'Southern Pride' added so it wouldn't be seen as racist
But the recruiter told him it was an 'automatic DQ'

The military prohibits all racist, extremist or gang-related tattoos

By ANNETA KONSTANTINIDES FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED 22 January 2016

An Arkansas teen said he was turned away from joining the Marines when he revealed he had a Confederate flag tattoo.

Anthony Bauswell, 18, has the rebel flag inked on his rib, with the words 'Southern Pride' emblazoned underneath.
Bauswell was in the process of enlisting at the Marine Corps Recruiting Center in Conway on Monday when the recruiter said it made him ineligible.

Antony Bauswell, 18, said he was disqualified from the Marines when he revealed he had a Confederate flag tattoo

'He says DQ, just automatically, DQ,' Bauswell told KARK 4.

While each branch of the military has its own specific rules, the prohibition of racist, extremist or gang-related tattoos is all-encompassing.

'I felt pretty low,' he said. 'My own government wasn't going to let me serve my country because of the ink on my skin.'






Read more: Arkansas teen turned away from Marines because of his Confederate flag tattoo | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Easy. Have it lasered off, or tattoo over it. Stupid kid.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Easy. Have it lasered off, or tattoo over it. Stupid kid.

Yes, that's what I tought, also.

Maybe he's sending an opinion or message, and will cover it.

High School Students Face Misdemeanor Charges for Waving Confederate Flag

Ashley Rae Goldenberg | March 17, 2016


Three high school students are facing criminal misdemeanor charges for displaying a Confederate flag on public school property.

WWAY reports three students at West Brunswick High School in Shallotte, N.C. are facing disorderly conduct charges after bringing a Confederate flag to school and allegedly taking photos with it.

According to the summonses obtained by WECT, one of the students is accused of “hanging a Confederate flag in the school’s cafeteria and courtyard and taking photographs of students with the flag” while another was allegedly “waving a Confederate flag in the school’s cafeteria and courtyard.”

A third student is facing a disorderly conduct charge for “standing on top of a cafeteria table during lunch hour and chanting.”

Two other students who were involved in the apparent “incident” were not charged because they are juveniles.

The criminal misdemeanor charges come after school officials vowed to punish the five students for their “disruption.”

In a statement on the incident, West Brunswick High School Principal Brock Ahrens wrote, “With your help, our school has worked very hard to build a culture of unity, tolerance, and civility. We must continue to work together.”

“This incident should bring our communities together...not to perpetuate a problem but to engage in civil conversations about solutions to the larger societal issues our children are grappling with,” Ahrens continued.

In his statement, Ahrens notes, “These issues simply cannot be resolved through our public schools.”

These issues, however, can apparently be “resolved” through misdemeanor charges for students who had the audacity to display a Confederate flag on public school property.

High School Students Face Misdemeanor Charges for Waving Confederate Flag | MRCTV

Ah, bless the little wannabe Trump voters.

Every time I see this thread pop up and think about my nutter friends who support this flag I ask myself, "What would a Union soldier from Ohio or New York think if they came back to life and saw the good old boys of 2016 in those states driving around in their Ford trucks flying the confederate flag?".

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Every time I see this thread pop up and think about my nutter friends who support this flag I ask myself, "What would a Union soldier from Ohio or New York think if they came back to life and saw the good old boys of 2016 in those states driving around in their Ford trucks flying the confederate flag?".

The flag has evolved to mean different things.

One of which is southern culture, IMO.

The Confederacy used 3 different flags.

The so-called 'confederate' flag was he battle flag of 3-4 Virginia units and the flag was used on a Confederate ship.

That said, it's interesting just to think what a different nation and world it was back then.

Soldiers literally walked through several states. Most walked back home across different states after the end of the conflict.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

One of which is southern culture, IMO.

Southern white culture.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Black Heart

One of which is southern culture, IMO.

Southern white culture.

Generally speaking, that's true.

I have a Korean-American friend in Atlanta who identifies with the Rebel flag however. I've known southerners that didn't like living in the north and vice-versa.


And black American polling data is the opposite of white American polling data (including whit and black northerners and southerners).