Thread: The Confederate Flag

Originally Posted by Humbert

Hey, good times on a recent Saturday afternoon in South Carolina as the Republican base celebrates it's heritage.




Race to the bottom: These two photos illustrate perfectly how ugly and pathetic white supremacists are

Is that the boontard second from left?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

'Spose we start a thread on Wisconsin Cheese Heads and their bigotry?

Go ahead. You can start with my Aunt Rose and Uncle Harvey from Milwaukee.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by Humbert

Hey, good times on a recent Saturday afternoon in South Carolina as the Republican base celebrates it's heritage.




Race to the bottom: These two photos illustrate perfectly how ugly and pathetic white supremacists are

Is that the boontard second from left?

Guaranteed . . . life in the tropics has rendered him a bit . . . soft . . .

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

'Spose we start a thread on Wisconsin Cheese Heads and their bigotry?

Go for it, should be fun.

^Is that thing male, female, or undetermined?

^ I dont think I want to know.

^Good point.

I don't know why they don't just use the scottish flag, after all that's where they got all the cross burning and shit from.

End of story ...

^ The US Civil War was very complicated.

As a result of this "false flag non-story story" about the so-called Confederate Flag (which it never was), I start brushing up on the Civil war with youtube documentaries and history sites and bios of Lincoln and other actors.

The North and South were basically 2 different countries

South Carolina had publicly threatened to secede in 1831 over tariffs and other Acts by the Federal Government.

Did Lincoln go to war to end slavery? Lincoln said he did not, but went to war to keep the Union together. Maybe he wanted to end slavery as a by-product of the war if the North won, but he just would say it publicly.

Lincoln did specifically say if he could defeat the South sooner withour freeing a single slave he would do it.

When Lincoln did issue the Emancipation Proclamation he only freed the slave in states that were not in Union control. It was a political and military move.

He did not end slavery in Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware and one other state (I've forgotten.

Some of the main causes of the Civil War were:

1. The expansion of slavery (or not) into Western territories

2. Tariffs

Many other factors.

^ You watched the video and still don't think the war wasn't about slavery? The Colonel in the video from the United States Military Academy obviously disagrees with you. And so do I.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

^ You watched the video and still don't think the war wasn't about slavery? The Colonel in the video from the United States Military Academy obviously disagrees with you. And so do I.

Yeah, call me crazy but I'll take what Colonel Ty Seidule, Professor of History at the United States Military Academy at West Point says over the witterings of whatever barbaro has absorbed from YouTube.

Originally Posted by slackula

barbaro

So, Black Heart is barbara who is milkman who is . . .


This is so confusing

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

^ You watched the video and still don't think the war wasn't about slavery? The Colonel in the video from the United States Military Academy obviously disagrees with you. And so do I.

Historians claim yes - it was about slavery - but don't agree on whether ending slavery was the reason.

Only Abe Lincoln knows in himself if he intended to end slavery as a motive to go to war. He was opposed to the institution - but then made other statements that US history omits.

The Colonel gave a great presentation - but he cherry picked Lincoln's quote from the Stephen Douglas debate for Illinois Senate in 1858 - Illinois was a free state.

Lincoln (to say again) claimed he would not have freed a single slave if you could have defeated the South more quickly.

He also supported the "Fugitive Slave Act"

The Colonel also omitted some info - as all presenters do - when making their case.

What historians and we do know - is that expanding slavery into the territories and the new states are a major precursor, as well as Tariffs and some Federal Acts.

Yes, slavery was a main reason. Ending it? We don't know.

Lincoln claimed his goal was to preserve the Union and not to end slavery. I assume that's true on the first point, and perhaps the second point was just for political reasons.

Again, only Abraham Lincoln knows his real intention.

Another hypothetical: if the original 7 states did not secede, and remained in the US, how long would the system of slavery continued? That's a strange hypothetical.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Yes, slavery was a main reason.

OK. So you do agree with the Professor. Sometimes I have a hard time comprehending which way you're going. I think you're asserting that ending slavery wasn't Abe's sole reason for the war which I do agree with but in the end ending slavery was the biggest reason.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Yes, slavery was a main reason.

OK. So you do agree with the Professor. Sometimes I have a hard time comprehending which way you're going. I think you're asserting that ending slavery wasn't Abe's sole reason for the war which I do agree with but in the end ending slavery was the biggest reason.

The "professor" (In uniform) claims that it was "all" or "nothing" with slavery being eradicated or allowed in the North as well.

I've never read that anywhere.

He's correct on slavery - but many historians disagree on his focus on how it was the issue.

Slavery was the (or one of) the main reasons: but it was NOT whether to continue or end slavery - it was over the expansion of slavery - or NOT expanding slavery into the Western territories.

Lincoln supported the Fugitive Slave Act publicly.

There were Acts of Congress that infuriated South Carolina in particular and the South in general 30 years before the civil war. S. Carolina openly talked of secession then, and a Vice President (Calhoun, I think) resigned his VP post to go back to South Carolina. People though Andrew Jackson would change the tariffs when he got elected, but he did not.

The North-South split goes back too the Articles of Confederation, the precursor to the US Constitution.

This is short:


Here's a short piece.


Some disagree with this author, but many consider it a good piece of work: "Forced into Glory."

Originally Posted by Black Heart

I start brushing up on the Civil war with youtube documentaries and history sites and bios of Lincoln and other actors.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Slavery was the (or one of) the main reasons: but it was NOT whether to continue or end slavery - it was over the expansion of slavery - or NOT expanding slavery into the Western territories.

Your home schooling appears to be working Milky.

Originally Posted by Humbert

Originally Posted by Black Heart

I start brushing up on the Civil war with youtube documentaries and history sites and bios of Lincoln and other actors.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Slavery was the (or one of) the main reasons: but it was NOT whether to continue or end slavery - it was over the expansion of slavery - or NOT expanding slavery into the Western territories.

Your home schooling appears to be working Milky.

This, is a fact.

There is no debate.

The Missouri Compromise was a precursor to the Civil War among many other things like Tarrifs, taxes, the "Force Act" and yes slavery.

But continuing or ending slavery were not the causes for the Civil War.

There was an abolitionist movement in the North, of course.

Did Lincoln want to free the slaves? Only Abe knows. Historians still do not agree on it. He abhored slavery and wrote about it, but then wrote and gave speeches that claimed he "did not know what to do" or did not want to end it.

As for the youtube video of this Professor.

He made at least 2 mistakes:

1. The Missouri Compromise and previous court decisions mean slavery would not and could not ext north of the southern border of Missouri. He claimed salvery could have been expanded in the North - false.

2. Economics: he claimed the North and South were both Agrarian economies.

False.

Of course many northerners had farms. But there were 30,000 miles of rail lines and factories and industries were producing goods and moving them by rail and shipping at ever increasing rates.

The North had a Industrial economy; the South an Agrarian economy.

A third error (I think an inentional deceit by omission) is his cherry picking of Lincolns sound bite in the debate against Douglas in 1858 for US Senate in Illinois.

Lincoln repeatedly said he did not want or intend to end slavery - maybe he was lying for political points or as a strategy, maybe not.

Whether Lincoln actually wanted to end slavery will never be agreed upon.

Check out "Forced into Glory" written by a black historian. The youtube interview with him is above.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Whether Lincoln actually wanted to end slavery will never be agreed upon.

Clearly he did want to or he would not have initiated the Emancipation Proclamation.
Figure it out.

^He has a point, as the world has a substantial number of people like him who start with the answer and in their minds bend reality to agree with what they have decided is true. Thus preventing unanimity on blindingly obvious shit like the earth not being flat.

Originally Posted by MrG

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Whether Lincoln actually wanted to end slavery will never be agreed upon.

Clearly he did want to or he would not have initiated the Emancipation Proclamation.
Figure it out.

You're oversimplifying, MrG.

Lincoln stated that if he could defeat the South sooner without freeing a slave he would.

The Emancipation Proclamation was a political and military strategy. And only some slaves were freed, while other were not.

Originally Posted by hazz

^He has a point, as the world has a substantial number of people like him who start with the answer and in their minds bend reality to agree with what they have decided is true. Thus preventing unanimity on blindingly obvious shit like the earth not being flat.

It's based on quote by Lincoln himself.

The video of this Army has false statements. Why? I'm not sure.

He's in the US army and perhaps putting a spin on things because of that.

Only this "professor' knows, but he has made factually false statements.

He is connected to a "right wing" group that has made other comments about John Kerry being an appeaser to Hitler.

Milky is in a process of discovery. He want to prop up his fundemental belief in the confederate cause. I don't know if he is trying to simplify events or complicate them. One needs to identify primary and secondary causes of the civil war. Slavery was an extremely divisive issue complicated by economics, politics, religion and morality. Ultimately it was secession that precipitated the conflict. And the cause of secession was the ownership and property rights of slave owners which was exacerbated by the addition of new territories to the union. The moral outrage exemplified by abolitionists such as John Brown and the writings of Harriet Beecher Stowe brought all the issues to a breaking point. Of course the civil war was fought over slavery, it was the central issue that led to the conflict.