Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Neverna

But as for the video, it does not say or even suggest who fired the missile. It could have been fired by an American plane or by some drone operator sitting thousands of miles away and wearing stars and stripes underwear. Have you got anything more substantive to your suggestion the Russians were to blame? Or is reality not on your agenda?

You're so utterly predictable.

First you claim it was strange that there was no video to try and imply it didn't happen.

Then when someone produces said video you try and discredit it.

You're full of shit.

Quite the opposite. By all means post up some videos that claim to show Russia has bombed hospitals or killed large numbers of innocent civilains. I have yet to see one. The video shown makes to claim as to who was responsible. Show a video that claims Russia has been responsible for some of the 140 people (civilians or "terrorists?") who "were killed in government and Russian air strikes" (mentioned in the article posted by bsnub).

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Neverna

But as for the video, it does not say or even suggest who fired the missile. It could have been fired by an American plane or by some drone operator sitting thousands of miles away and wearing stars and stripes underwear. Have you got anything more substantive to your suggestion the Russians were to blame? Or is reality not on your agenda?

You're so utterly predictable.

First you claim it was strange that there was no video to try and imply it didn't happen.

Then when someone produces said video you try and discredit it.

You're full of shit.

Quite the opposite. By all means post up some videos that claim to show Russia has bombed hospitals or killed large numbers of innocent civilains. I have yet to see one. The video shown makes to claim as to who was responsible. Show a video that claims Russia has been responsible for some of the 140 people (civilians or "terrorists?") who "were killed in government and Russian air strikes" (mentioned in the article posted by bsnub).

You wouldn't know one if it sat on your face, and you'd do everything in your power to deny it anyway.

Classic case of confirmation bias and and an even worse case of Putin man love.

As I said, with your stunning command of written Arabic it should be easy to find "Syrian Civil Defence" on Facebook and Twitter.

Russians bomb another market in Dara'a which is DEFINITELY not an ISIS stronghold.



https://twitter.com/SyriaCivilDef/st...613888?lang=en

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Russians bomb another market in Dara'a which is DEFINITELY not an ISIS stronghold.

Have you got a video of that?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

https://twitter.com/SyriaCivilDef/st...613888?lang=en

The "Syria Civil Defence" don't make that claim on their Twitter page.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Russians bomb another market in Dara'a which is DEFINITELY not an ISIS stronghold.

Have you got a video of that?

Point of clarification: Are videos now the only legitimate reporting? There is a lot of stuff that goes on in the world that doesn't have video support. Some reports are more legitimate than others, but you seem to be dismissing all of them out of hand.

Originally Posted by MrG

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Russians bomb another market in Dara'a which is DEFINITELY not an ISIS stronghold.

Have you got a video of that?

Point of clarification: Are videos now the only legitimate reporting?

Of course not.

Originally Posted by MrG

There is a lot of stuff that goes on in the world that doesn't have video support.

Sure.

Originally Posted by MrG

Some reports are more legitimate than others,

I agree.

Originally Posted by MrG

but you seem to be dismissing all of them out of hand.

Really? Where?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Russians bomb another market in Dara'a which is DEFINITELY not an ISIS stronghold.

No, it's a stronghold of the the Al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front. Terrorists in the eyes of the Syrian government and the Russians.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Russians bomb another market in Dara'a which is DEFINITELY not an ISIS stronghold.

No, it's a stronghold of the the Al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front. Terrorists in the eyes of the Syrian government and the Russians.

Rubbish. That's the sort of twaddle Fars put on their website.

(For those that don't know: An Iranian government news agency that would have you believe Iran and its allies are only killing terrorists).

It's where moderate Syrians first decided they didn't want to be governed by a homicidal dictator and first rose up in rebellion, and it remains an enduring symbol of the revolt.

This article seems to think a ground offensive is in the offing in Daraa.

Russian Forces Strike Syria's Southern Rebels In Preparation For Pro-Regime Ground Offensive

The strategy suggests Russia’s unprecedented attacks in the south are a precursor to a large-scale ground operation to retake a strategic area that borders both Jordan and Israeli-occupied Golan Heights.

On Wednesday, Russian planes struck the Tal Hara, Tal Antar, Kafr Nasaj and Aqraba neighborhoods of northern Daraa, according to the U.K.-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. Iran's state-run news agency claimed Russia’s targets were al Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra militants.

Syrian Civil Defence, a volunteer rescue organization in Daraa, said airstrikes targeted civilian and rebel-held positions.

Regime ground forces and their allies are massing in the area in preparation to retake the Daraa triangle, an area of roughly 60 square kilometers that stretches southwest of the Syrian capital Damascus to southern Daraa city and back up to Quneitra in the Golan Heights.

Troops from the Syrian army’s 5th armored and 7th mechanized divisions along with fighters from the pro-regime National Defense Forces were deployed to Daraa’s northern countryside earlier this week, al-Masdar news reported.

Among Wednesday night’s bombardment were targets some 15 km from the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights and others on the border with Jordan.

A report from the Institute for the Study of War said if confirmed, Russian airstrikes "in southern Syria could be a sign of Russian cooperation with Israel and Jordan.

Jordan and Israel, two important American allies in the fight against ISIS, share borders with Syria’s southern provinces, potentially dragging them into the conflict if Russia persists with its bombardment of the south. Both countries, which backed the U.S. strategy to support moderate Syrian opposition groups, have already discussed military cooperation with Russia.

Last week, Russia and Jordan met and agreed to coordinate their operations in Syria through a "special working mechanism" in the Jordanian capital of Amman. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu traveled to Moscow to discuss how the two countries could operate in Syria without getting in each other’s way.

Originally Posted by Neverna

This article seems to think a ground offensive is in the offing in Daraa.

Russian Forces Strike Syria's Southern Rebels In Preparation For Pro-Regime Ground Offensive

The strategy suggests Russia’s unprecedented attacks in the south are a precursor to a large-scale ground operation to retake a strategic area that borders both Jordan and Israeli-occupied Golan Heights.

On Wednesday, Russian planes struck the Tal Hara, Tal Antar, Kafr Nasaj and Aqraba neighborhoods of northern Daraa, according to the U.K.-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. Iran's state-run news agency claimed Russia’s targets were al Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra militants.

Syrian Civil Defence, a volunteer rescue organization in Daraa, said airstrikes targeted civilian and rebel-held positions.

Regime ground forces and their allies are massing in the area in preparation to retake the Daraa triangle, an area of roughly 60 square kilometers that stretches southwest of the Syrian capital Damascus to southern Daraa city and back up to Quneitra in the Golan Heights.

Troops from the Syrian army’s 5th armored and 7th mechanized divisions along with fighters from the pro-regime National Defense Forces were deployed to Daraa’s northern countryside earlier this week, al-Masdar news reported.

Among Wednesday night’s bombardment were targets some 15 km from the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights and others on the border with Jordan.

A report from the Institute for the Study of War said if confirmed, Russian airstrikes "in southern Syria could be a sign of Russian cooperation with Israel and Jordan.

Jordan and Israel, two important American allies in the fight against ISIS, share borders with Syria’s southern provinces, potentially dragging them into the conflict if Russia persists with its bombardment of the south. Both countries, which backed the U.S. strategy to support moderate Syrian opposition groups, have already discussed military cooperation with Russia.

Last week, Russia and Jordan met and agreed to coordinate their operations in Syria through a "special working mechanism" in the Jordanian capital of Amman. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu traveled to Moscow to discuss how the two countries could operate in Syria without getting in each other’s way.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

I trust that Saudi and the US have made sure they are armed well enough to defend themselves.

So, just how dangerous is Vladamir Putin proving to be? And what's the point of this game?


International Business Times
Christopher Harress
2 days ago

Russian bomber warplanes came within one nautical mile of the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan earlier this week, prompting the nuclear-powered vessel to scramble fighter jets, according to spokesperson from the U.S. Navy’s 7th Fleet, who spoke with Stars and Stripes Thursday. The giant Tupolev bomber aircraft, also known as the Bear, flew as low as 500 feet as it approached the Reagan, which had been conducting scheduled maneuvers with the South Korean Navy in the Korean Peninsula.

As the two Tupolevs approached, the Reagan launched four F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jets to intercept and identify, a standard procedure when encountering unidentifiable aircraft, according to 7th Fleet spokeswoman Lt. Lauren Cole.

Tupolev Russian bombers fly in formation© Provided by IBT US Tupolev Russian bombers fly in formation While the USS Ronald Reagan sent up four combat aircraft to deal with the two bombers, the entire incident took place in international waters, making the approach completely legal if not somewhat provocative and potentially dangerous.

“We are advocates of any country being able to operate within international norms,” Cole said. “We do caveat that with the fact that all of these operations need to be conducted in accordance with the rights and regulations of other countries, and within a safe manner.”

Russian aircraft have made a habit over the last year of using its aircraft to test international boundaries by violating the airspace of other countries and approaching U.S. and NATO ships in what the U.S. have previously described as “provocative” action.

Originally Posted by MrG

And what's the point of this game?

Tit for tat of some sort, I would say.

the entire incident took place in international waters, making the approach completely legal

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by MrG

And what's the point of this game?

Tit for tat of some sort, I would say.

the entire incident took place in international waters, making the approach completely legal

Where is the tat that called for the tit.

If all you can focus on is the legality of flying in international waters, you are eithr being a coy little thing or you've clearly missed the point. I suspect the former.

Using your warplanes to buzz another country's warship in international waters is clearly povocative. The question remain's; what's Shirtless Wonder up to.

Originally Posted by MrG

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by MrG

And what's the point of this game?

Tit for tat of some sort, I would say.

the entire incident took place in international waters, making the approach completely legal

Where is the tat that called for the tit.

If all you can focus on is the legality of flying in international waters, you are eithr being a coy little thing or you've clearly missed the point. I suspect the former.

Using your warplanes to buzz another country's warship in international waters is clearly povocative. The question remain's; what's Shirtless Wonder up to.

It all depends on your viewpoint (and here I don't mean mine or yours, I mean the likes of Russia, China and the USA). Geopolitical power posturing. Here's one recent example. (China/USA, not Russia)

South China Sea: Beijing calls US Navy warship's route a 'provocation'

Beijing has accused the United States of threatening its sovereignty in a "deliberate provocation" by sending a US Navy warship through disputed waters in the South China Sea, in a direct challenge to China's territorial claims.

The manoeuvre comes after months of deliberation in Washington and is designed to uphold the principles of freedom of navigation in international waters ...

South China Sea: Beijing calls US Navy warship's route a 'provocation'

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by MrG

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by MrG

And what's the point of this game?

Tit for tat of some sort, I would say.

the entire incident took place in international waters, making the approach completely legal

Where is the tat that called for the tit.

If all you can focus on is the legality of flying in international waters, you are eithr being a coy little thing or you've clearly missed the point. I suspect the former.

Using your warplanes to buzz another country's warship in international waters is clearly povocative. The question remain's; what's Shirtless Wonder up to.

It all depends on your viewpoint (and here I don't mean mine or yours, I mean the likes of Russia, China and the USA). Geopolitical power posturing. Here's one recent example. (China/USA, not Russia)

South China Sea: Beijing calls US Navy warship's route a 'provocation'

Beijing has accused the United States of threatening its sovereignty in a "deliberate provocation" by sending a US Navy warship through disputed waters in the South China Sea, in a direct challenge to China's territorial claims.

The manoeuvre comes after months of deliberation in Washington and is designed to uphold the principles of freedom of navigation in international waters ...

South China Sea: Beijing calls US Navy warship's route a 'provocation'

I would call that two different things.

One is making a clear point that China's claim of territorial waters in what are long established international waters is illegitimate and will not be recognized. It would be more appropriate to call China's building on the disputed islands as power posturing. The US, any nation for that matter, has a right to sail in international waters. The US is not alone in this; it's just big enough to balance China.

Russia's buzzing a military craft of another country, on the other hand, is a pointless stick in the eye. It is designed to accomplish what...?

Again, what is Vlad the Bad up to here? What is his POV that would call for this kind of provocation?

Originally Posted by MrG

So, just how dangerous is Vladamir Putin proving to be? And what's the point of this game?


International Business Times
Christopher Harress
2 days ago

Russian bomber warplanes came within one nautical mile of the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan earlier this week, prompting the nuclear-powered vessel to scramble fighter jets, according to spokesperson from the U.S. Navy’s 7th Fleet, who spoke with Stars and Stripes Thursday. The giant Tupolev bomber aircraft, also known as the Bear, flew as low as 500 feet as it approached the Reagan, which had been conducting scheduled maneuvers with the South Korean Navy in the Korean Peninsula.

As the two Tupolevs approached, the Reagan launched four F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jets to intercept and identify, a standard procedure when encountering unidentifiable aircraft, according to 7th Fleet spokeswoman Lt. Lauren Cole.

Tupolev Russian bombers fly in formation© Provided by IBT US Tupolev Russian bombers fly in formation While the USS Ronald Reagan sent up four combat aircraft to deal with the two bombers, the entire incident took place in international waters, making the approach completely legal if not somewhat provocative and potentially dangerous.

“We are advocates of any country being able to operate within international norms,” Cole said. “We do caveat that with the fact that all of these operations need to be conducted in accordance with the rights and regulations of other countries, and within a safe manner.”

Russian aircraft have made a habit over the last year of using its aircraft to test international boundaries by violating the airspace of other countries and approaching U.S. and NATO ships in what the U.S. have previously described as “provocative” action.

He flies those crates into UK airspace all the time.

I suspect a Sopwith Camel could take one out they're so old.

The Daraa offensive (June–July 2015) was a rebel operation in the Daraa Governorate, during the Syrian Civil War. It was led by the Southern Front of the Free Syrian Army and also included the Army of Conquest "southern sector", of which the Al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front and Ahrar al-Sham are part of, against Syrian government forces defending Daraa city and surrounding town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daraa_...0%93July_2015)

Originally Posted by Neverna

The Daraa offensive (June–July 2015) was a rebel operation in the Daraa Governorate, during the Syrian Civil War. It was led by the Southern Front of the Free Syrian Army and also included the Army of Conquest "southern sector", of which the Al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front and Ahrar al-Sham are part of, against Syrian government forces defending Daraa city and surrounding town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daraa_...0%93July_2015)

Who the fuck added that shit?

"of which the blah blah blah are part of"?

Most likely carefully edited by a Syrian intelligence agent with poor English skills.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Neverna

The Daraa offensive (June–July 2015) was a rebel operation in the Daraa Governorate, during the Syrian Civil War. It was led by the Southern Front of the Free Syrian Army and also included the Army of Conquest "southern sector", of which the Al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front and Ahrar al-Sham are part of, against Syrian government forces defending Daraa city and surrounding town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daraa_...0%93July_2015)

Who the fuck added that shit?

"of which the blah blah blah are part of"?

Most likely carefully edited by a Syrian intelligence agent with poor English skills.

Perhaps the quality of the English in the International Business Times is more to your liking.

Syrian Rebel Groups Merge To Take On Assad In Dera’a, But Deep Divisions Remain
June 26 2015
Syrian rebels launched a major joint offensive Wednesday against President Bashar Assad’s forces in Dera’a, south of the capital Damascus, where the revolution began in 2011. The two main factions now fighting together against the regime there are among the strongest opposition groups in the country, and they may have a chance to inflict severe damage on the Assad’s forces. Yet, even though they were formed from the remnants of the original Free Syrian Army (FSA), they have different ideologies and are not ready to share leadership, fighters with both factions told International Business Times.

Jaysh al Fatah (Arabic for “Army of Conquest”) partnered with the group known as the Southern Front -- as well as with some battalions in the al Qaeda offshoot in Syria, known as Jabhat al Nusra or the Nusra Front -- in a new offensive called Southern Storm.
Syrian Rebel Groups Merge To Take On Assad In Dera?a, But Deep Divisions Remain

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Neverna

The Daraa offensive (June–July 2015) was a rebel operation in the Daraa Governorate, during the Syrian Civil War. It was led by the Southern Front of the Free Syrian Army and also included the Army of Conquest "southern sector", of which the Al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front and Ahrar al-Sham are part of, against Syrian government forces defending Daraa city and surrounding town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daraa_...0%93July_2015)

Who the fuck added that shit?

"of which the blah blah blah are part of"?

Most likely carefully edited by a Syrian intelligence agent with poor English skills.

Perhaps the quality of the English in the International Business Times is more to your liking.

Syrian Rebel Groups Merge To Take On Assad In Dera’a, But Deep Divisions Remain
June 26 2015
Syrian rebels launched a major joint offensive Wednesday against President Bashar Assad’s forces in Dera’a, south of the capital Damascus, where the revolution began in 2011. The two main factions now fighting together against the regime there are among the strongest opposition groups in the country, and they may have a chance to inflict severe damage on the Assad’s forces. Yet, even though they were formed from the remnants of the original Free Syrian Army (FSA), they have different ideologies and are not ready to share leadership, fighters with both factions told International Business Times.

Jaysh al Fatah (Arabic for “Army of Conquest”) partnered with the group known as the Southern Front -- as well as with some battalions in the al Qaeda offshoot in Syria, known as Jabhat al Nusra or the Nusra Front -- in a new offensive called Southern Storm.
Syrian Rebel Groups Merge To Take On Assad In Dera?a, But Deep Divisions Remain

Or perhaps they used the same source you did.

All of which originates from Iranian and Syrian propaganda to justify their assault on civilian areas or those that harbour Syrian rebels fighting to free themselves from the genocidal dictator.

Haven't you ever watched Press TV? Or Syrian TV?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Neverna

The Daraa offensive (June–July 2015) was a rebel operation in the Daraa Governorate, during the Syrian Civil War. It was led by the Southern Front of the Free Syrian Army and also included the Army of Conquest "southern sector", of which the Al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front and Ahrar al-Sham are part of, against Syrian government forces defending Daraa city and surrounding town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daraa_...0%93July_2015)

Who the fuck added that shit?

"of which the blah blah blah are part of"?

Most likely carefully edited by a Syrian intelligence agent with poor English skills.

Perhaps the quality of the English in the International Business Times is more to your liking.

Syrian Rebel Groups Merge To Take On Assad In Dera’a, But Deep Divisions Remain
June 26 2015
Syrian rebels launched a major joint offensive Wednesday against President Bashar Assad’s forces in Dera’a, south of the capital Damascus, where the revolution began in 2011. The two main factions now fighting together against the regime there are among the strongest opposition groups in the country, and they may have a chance to inflict severe damage on the Assad’s forces. Yet, even though they were formed from the remnants of the original Free Syrian Army (FSA), they have different ideologies and are not ready to share leadership, fighters with both factions told International Business Times.

Jaysh al Fatah (Arabic for “Army of Conquest”) partnered with the group known as the Southern Front -- as well as with some battalions in the al Qaeda offshoot in Syria, known as Jabhat al Nusra or the Nusra Front -- in a new offensive called Southern Storm.
Syrian Rebel Groups Merge To Take On Assad In Dera?a, But Deep Divisions Remain

Or perhaps they used the same source you did.

All of which originates from Iranian and Syrian propaganda to justify their assault on civilian areas or those that harbour Syrian rebels fighting to free themselves from the genocidal dictator.

Haven't you ever watched Press TV? Or Syrian TV?

The wiki page used the International Business Times page that I posted as the source for the comment. You'll have to ask the IBT or the author of that article, Erin Banco, where they got their information. Here you go. Fill your boots. Twitter: @ErinBanco - Email: [email protected]

Go Assad, go

you can win this,

and repeal the illegal coalition invasion attempts

I am pissed off with the Wests propaganda , most folks here recognise it for what it is, propaganda so that Western countries can sell more military hardware to the Middle East . Profits profits is all that counts.
Now the BBC bullshitters are continuing to tell us that Assad is bad because he uses barrel Bombs. What, our Western Bombs are good Bombs because our western armament manufactures are good people so our bombs are the good kind of bombs.
Home made barrel bombs are bad, and only bad people use them.
Most people in Britain are severely pissed off with our illegal interference in the ME.
The states propaganda machine is having the opposite effect, hardly anybody finds them credible .
The other great piece of propaganda is that Assad has been indicted by the international criminal court for war crimes. So fkn what, it's just another evil ploy to fool the peasants. Until Tony Blair and Bush junior are standing in the dock at the ICC nobody will take it seriously .

see in western propaganda it's bad when you bomb your own people, but perfectly acceptable if someone else bomb them for you

the world is really upside down, with fuckwits like kerry, holland and Cameron trying to play war games to pay for their next political campaign