He is telling Angela Merkel he's removing some troops. Saying and doing are two different things. Intel will confirm soon enough. Or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
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He is telling Angela Merkel he's removing some troops. Saying and doing are two different things. Intel will confirm soon enough. Or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
H
The gas from the US is already being sourced through fracking,I have no idea and don't care, who is doing the franking. We are close to only having oil from fracking, you might as well get used to it.
Funny thing about intel. It is information pumped out by, well, the worlds biggest collection of liars (the intelligence community), fed through the PR machines of political parties, and handed to the public through a press and media that just take the governments press release, add a few pictures and Big Font words, all neatly bundled for the people to swallow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
About as reliable as a bar girl - you know they are lying their arse off, but for some reason people like to believe that this time she is telling the truth.
If Putin has some smarts, he would keep lots of soldiers on with 24 / 7 video surveillance to record the false flag operatives who will be dashing across with their rockets and sniper rifles, killing a load of Ukrainians, blaming it on the Russians just to get the nice profitable war the war mongers like Kerry want.
Intel is like beauty. All in the eye of the beholder. Of course Putin proclaiming troops are being removed doesn't make it so either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert
Troops on the border or not, Putin has got what he wants. The Crimea. Too much risk going too far. We won't be seeing Russian troops invading Ukrainian in near future. Let things cool off a bit then maybe.
Lets just hope that the external influencers that provoke these things will agree. Doubt they will though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
Putin is owning Kerry and Obama,
Kerry is a fool and Obama lives in a bubble, Putin is a real man and a real gay male icon
Just so I can get up to speed, how does this actually work?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert
Are the intelligence gathering agencies rogue and out of government control? So do they have a private agenda of deliberate misinformation which the governments are naive about or does the misinformation come about accidentally due to unreliable gathering procedures or has the government specifically requested to be misinformed in order to cover their own backs when they act in error?
Is it just the US intel that is a affected or all intel gathering organisations or maybe just western democratic governments?
Does the problem affect private and government owned intel gathering organisations or just government?
It sounds serious. What can be the solution to this problem?
The government is owned by big business and told what to do,. Therefore, agencies do what they are told as well. One in the same. Corrupt, and sold out to big business and those that own big business. Same all around the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
There are many big businesses so do they collude in private meetings about how to manipulate the government or do they each act alone? Is there an annual turnover thresh-hold which qualifies you to apply for membership of this elite organisation?
Go do some research that does not include CNN or the BCC, Looper. As a starter for 10, think about lobbyists, party and personal donations, think about other legal graft and corruption.
Never saw him as gay, but now I can see him as just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
Might sound naive, but whilst agreeing with your view that the Western intel services seem to be going rogue with mis- and disinformation, my guess is it's by design of their respective governments that no longer trust the people, to some extent are afraid of them, and would rather pump them with whatever the oligarchs deem most comfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Lobbying a government is not corrupt. Big business has a lot of power but they each act for their own interests which is to build wealth. The government acts for the benefit of the state and its subjects. It controls all legitimised violence. Army, police, prisons the law so they are also quite powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert
Macho posturing has been 'gay' since the village people put on a police uniform!Quote:
Originally Posted by leemo
I do not follow this Leemo. Why is the government afraid of the people? Which government are we talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by leemo
Really? You seriously believe that? The Government of the UK wanted / was desperate to go to war in Syria. Was that for the good of the people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
This is surreal - you actually believe that government and all the Sir Humphies in the shadows do anything for the good of the people? You think politicians are selfless kind souls, and it is only an accident that they rape and pillage expenses, take bungs left right and centre, front Pedofile groups, cover up child rape and murder, fudge me the list goes on and on so much that you couldn't make it up if you tried. If you wrote a movie with the types of activity that these Governments get up to, no one would believe it!
Look at oboma with the rhetoric about gmos whilst at the same time appoints Monsantos people as his closest advisors and allows EVERY law that might stop gmos, which most people in the world do not want, by the way, he lets them go. His work in Africa is all funded and a gateway for monsanto. He's doing it for the good of the people?????
Pull the other one.
Federal reserve - a private bank that basically has been set up to f#$k the world. No other word for it, to f#$k over the world. World bank. Same. World Trade organisation - Same. The list goes on and on and on and yet people such as you Looper sit there and defend these pricks oblivious to the fact that you, along with everyone else, is getting raped by these bastards every single day. Your parents were raped by them every single day. Your children will be raped by them every single day and in so many way, not least in that every single dollar / pound these people create with their banking scams devalues the dollar in your pocket. Remember when you could buy a can of pop and a mars bar for 10p? Even I do! Over a quid now I bet, and this is them, leeching money away from us all. Its not that long ago in Thailand that 25 setang could buy you something - no chance now!
Wake up pal -- wake up.
What is the ultimate motivation here? If you don't think governments are acting in the best interests of the nation and its subjects who are they acting for?
'Big business' is a bit vague. Are you saying that leaders of certain businesses act together in a secret organisation with a secret agenda? What is their ultimate goal in the Machiavellian scheme?
Why do they allow transparent democratic processes to work? It would be much easier to pursue an evil agenda if the government was subverted as an autocracy or dictatorship.
They collude, I think the Bilderburg group are meeting in Denmark this year to plot and scheme.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! :gwbush:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert
Alex Jones Speaks to thousands at Bilderberg 2013 - YouTube
a new world orderQuote:
Originally Posted by Looper
New World Order (NWO) Speech George H.W. Bush New World Order 9/11/1991 - YouTube
Interesting how Bush senior made the NWO speech exactly 10 years before '9/11'
Not leaders. Owners. The people that own the world. The people that own you. The people that own all the land, all the oil and gas, the people that make up the education, the people own all the media. The people that own all the politicians. The people that own all the banks. The people who own everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Go and investigate the real wealth in the world. Go and investigate the real money families that are usually not mentioned in the Forbes Rich lists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert
So are you going to spend the rest of your life studying, and worrying about these people who you say own you, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Do they have you so tied up you can not have a life, why can't you get over your paranioa and get on with life, there is a good life still to be had. I know I have one.
It would be nice of we could share all the oil and gas and land and banks equally between everybody but communism just doesn't seem to work.
At least you are relatively free to pursue a life/career/education, enjoy the safety of living in an organised society where you are relatively free from violence and exploitation and free to say what you like within reason and travel pretty much anywhere.
I guess it is a glass is half full/empty situation.
You've obviously accepted you're on the home stretch and wish to bury your head in the sand and find peace and nice times in your final chapter. Fair enough and good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPETER65
Lot of us younger people with young kids are ready to fight these fvckers when the time comes.
"Nothing you can do about it"
??
Tell that to Goliath.
Humans are evolved to be sceptical and distrustful of other humans up to a point to avoid being taken advantage of by cheaters in a group, but in order to live in communal hunter/gatherer groups we are also evolved to be largely trusting and cooperative. We are also not evolved to live in large organised societies which is an artificial construct which we have to learn about as we grow up.
I think this notion that there are malevolent and Machiavellian unseen forces at work at high levels in societies that are in fact largely transparent and democratic is some kind of crossover wiring in the brain from our naturally evolved scepticism and the fact that modern society is an unnaturally complex environment which we as individual subjects cannot understand completely in the same way that we could understand the social mechanics of a hunter/gatherer group.
It's all about acceptable risk between competitive business environments flourishing and crossing the very thin line to huge amounts of people suffering.
In a couple of paras, Western governments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
I believe they are becoming less trustful of the people, and their attraction to paramilitary defences against civil unrest, for which they are well equipped in terms of manpower, hardware, resources and legislation, makes them rightfully less trusted by the people. Why? Because we vote for them but tend to know that our best leaders are at best the best of the worst.
Also, imho, Western liberal democracy is not working, needs to be but won't be revamped to cope with the slow but insidious shocks to a fraying system (that would be an admission no politician is prepared to make), and is heading for (or debatably being steered towards) dramatic upheaval. Better to keep the people distracted by who's wearing what or slept with whom.
Nothing will happen tomorrow or even next month, and the buses will probably run on time well into the next decade, but it's a gradual process that becomes increasingly difficult to correct as it gathers momentum.
What we have in common with every extinct major civilisation, is the belief that we are too big to fail.
This is a delusion. Humans are psychologically wired to see society as fraying and falling apart based on the popularity of news reports covering murders and violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by leemo
The fact is that the age we live in now is the least violent age that humans have ever lived in. See Rainfall's graph of falling murder rate? You can see the same graph from almost every democratic country in the world and the murder rate is a good indicator for all other kinds of violence and unrest.
Don't worry. Be happy.
Good for you, mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
First, scratch your heads in disbelief with so much going so wrong that your own leaders kept it in the background. Then do your bit to bring what's left back into workable order. Then, I trust you youngsters remember the dangers of becoming prosperous and technologically advance, which include idleness of thought and complacency.
Probably not. Well, you may, but the more successful you become the easier it will be for your grandkids to be seduced by the same folly of your parents, which started the cycle.
Good insight. It takes discipline.Quote:
Originally Posted by leemo
You know what, I often think that the official secrets act and the variations around the world are the biggest tell that something not quite right is occurring. Usually these are things that people "in power" have done or asked officials / bodies to do that are so heinous, so against what is actually right, so damaging to them that ultimately they never want the people of the country to find out. Why? It's our bloody country! These bastards work for us. They are supposed to represent us, and yet they do such bad things that they have a law to cover them up for up to 100 years! And then extended!
Outrageous.
Do you think everything should be in the public domain?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert
When Alan Turing was at work cracking the enigma code to stop the Nazi u-boats should news of his daily progress have been published in the paper each day?
And by extension all classified information on modern-day terrorist threats should be public?
How about design digrams, embedded software and schematics for all the defence departments weaponry?
Daft example. However, I don't think that 2 minutes after the war was over this should have been kept secret. I don't think that, for example, the mass communication gathering against the public should have been covered. I don't think that bliar and bush should be able to hide behind it in relation to their discussion about cooking up the 2nd iraq war, invading Afghanistan to secure opium production. I don't think that all the shit around the JFK murder should be kept secret from the US public for 100 years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
There are times and places for secrecy. I would guess that the vast majority of things covered by it and only still a secret because it would damage the reputation or jail some big wig.
The secrets act allow government departments, mostly in the spying and enforcement arena, to do what ever they like with complete impunity. This is a bad state of affairs.
What if they gather useful information that prevents a terrorist attack that saves lives. That is a good outcome. There are many protocols in place governing the methods and use of secretly gathered information. Are you not aware of the hoops that the government has to go through before a judge grants a permit for a wire-tap to snoop on a citizen? Don't you find it reassuring that the government's freedom in these matters is self-restricted in such ways?
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Judges and wiretaps? Where have you been for the past 20 odd years?
McDonald's Corporation has closed its restaurants in Crimea, prompting fears of a backlash as a prominent Moscow politician calls for all of the US fast food chain's outlets in Russia to be shut.
Crimea's annexation by Russia, which Ukraine and the West do not acknowledge, has worried companies with assets in the Black Sea peninsula as it is unclear how the change may affect their business.
McDonald's says the decision was strictly based on business and had "nothing to do with politics".
Nevertheless, its move to temporarily close restaurants in Simferopol, Sevastopol and Yalta is likely to be seen as emblematic of the rift in Western-Russian relations, now at their lowest point since the end of the Cold War.
"Like many other multi-national companies, McDonald's is currently evaluating potential business and regulatory implications which may result from the evolving situation in Crimea," McDonald's said in a statement. "Due to the suspension of necessary financial and banking services, we have no option but to close our three restaurants in Crimea."
The Crimean outlets are not franchises, but owned and operated by McDonald's itself.
The closures follow Geneva-based Deutsche Post's announcement that it was no longer accepting letters bound for Crimea as delivery to the region was no longer guaranteed.
Economic relations between Russia and Ukraine have worsened since Russia annexed Crimea last month in response to the ouster of Russian-backed president Viktor Yanukovich after months of street protests in Kiev.
Targeted sanctions imposed on a number of prominent Russians by the United States and the European Union have alarmed some foreign investors.
Russia applies economic pressure
Russia raised the price it charges Ukraine for gas on Thursday for the second time this week, almost doubling it in three days by cancelling previous discounts.
While that may hurt Russian sellers, it piles pressure on Ukraine which is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
Moscow has often used energy as a political weapon in dealing with its neighbours, and European customers are now concerned Russia might again cut off deliveries.
The Ukrainian government said it was looking at alternatives including buying gas from western neighbours, an option that would mean reversing flows in transcontinental pipelines.
Meanwhile, Russian riot police last month took control of a factory belonging to a Ukrainian confectionery magnate in the city of Lipetsk as part of an investigation into the company's affairs, the Ukrainian government said.
Petro Poroshenko, a billionaire oligarch known as the "Chocolate King", is the front-runner in Ukraine's presidential election, which has been set for May 25.
Ukraine this week temporarily banned seven Russian food companies from selling some of their products on Ukrainian territory.
Calls for McDonald's to pull out of Russia
McDonald's said it would help relocate staff to positions in mainland Ukraine, signalling it did not expect its Crimean businesses to reopen in the near future.
The deputy speaker of Russian parliament, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, known for his anti-Western rhetoric, demanded that McDonald's pull its business out of Russia.
"It would be good if they closed here too ... if they disappeared for good. Pepsi-Cola would be next," Russian media quoted Mr Zhirinovsky as saying.
Mr Zhirinovsky, whose nationalist Liberal Democratic party largely backs president Vladimir Putin in parliament, said the party would organise pickets at McDonald's restaurants across the country.
McDonald's, which operates more than 400 restaurants in Russia, was the first international fast food chain to tap the Russian market when it opened in Moscow's Pushkin Square before the collapse of the Soviet Union. That branch had the highest sales and served the most customers of any McDonald's outlet in 2012.
A Russian backlash against McDonald's products would have a significant impact on company profits. McDonald's sees Russia as one of its top seven major markets outside the United States and Canada, according to its 2013 annual report.
Russian moves to shun McDonald's could backfire, according to Russian newswire RBK, which says Russian companies supplying food to McDonald's would suffer as a result.
McDonald's quits Crimea as fears of trade clash grow, politician urges fast food chain to shut all Russian outlets - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
I don't think information gathered during anti-terrorist snooping is admissable in court for prosecution of citizens for other crimes. But in the end I think the public has to weigh the balance of benefits versus costs of information gathering by the government which may mean giving up some privacy in times of higher danger.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
How will they survive without their daily dose of udder meat, soaked in formaldehyde or what ever they use these days to turn meat not suitable for rat food into a bigmac.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Woe is them. :rolleyes:
The reason it is interesting is that no two nations that both have McDonald's have ever gone to war. It is known as the Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention. There are few areas of the world where McDonalds has withdrawn from so this is new territory for the Golden Arches Theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert
Not wrong mate. The misery caused by not being allowed to purchase overpriced unhealthy shit food must be killing them :)
You should be aware, or not, that most governments "snoop" or as some "citizens" hold, illegally intercept, every piece of digital data transmitted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Most citizens were unaware of this but, with the information released by a US soldier, it became clear that the scope and amount of the "snooping" became public knowledge.
But as you say all this is to help governments "fight terrorism". While at the same time they, the same governments, aid and abet "our terrorists" to wage war against democratically elected governments worldwide.:confused:
Were "the public" asked if they wished their, here today gone tomorrow government, to act illegally on their behalf?
I think this whole snooping thing is a bit of a beat-up. We live in the information age. It used to be hard to collect information. Now it is easy. Your ISP keeps records of every website you visit and they are a private organisation without the same levels of oversight that the government has. I was not really shocked by Snowden's 'revelations'. Everybody was aware that the government listened for terrorist 'chatter' on the wires and everybody joked about putting keywords like 'bomb', 'anthrax', 'hijack' in their emails to waste their time. How did everybody imagine the gov was doing this if not by snooping?
The ISP's and software vendors know which side of their bread is buttered. If the were to refuse the "requests" they would be promptly taken out. Either individually murdered or their business ruined,Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
The "elected" politicians ask their voters to "trust us we know what we are doing". Unfortunately they fail to justify to their voters the results of their "snooping", murder and terror. On many occasions where they do crack open their sealed door it is shown that they have in fact either lied or have taken actions which have made an irritation into a full blown lethal threat - to their voters. The recent disappearance of a fully loaded airplane, full of men, women and children was a result of their meddling.
Even, allegedley, the CIA itself agrees with the blowback.
When he talks of the "threat to U.S. persons both overseas as well as in the homeland" his audience is a US one, don't think the rest of the "Free World" intelligence agencies are in any way disagreeing with him. It is reassuring to hear that they "think" they have reduced the threat but are unable, or unwilling, to provide understandable evidence to their "trusting" voters.
"And of course they assure us that it's all good, with the CIA's Director John Brennann providing a moment of unintentional hilarity with his apodictic certainty that drones are 'mitigating the threats to the homeland'.
The intelligence community has shown little appetite for Schiff’s proposal, which he previewed in a Feb. 4 House Intelligence Committee hearing with CIA Director John Brennan and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper.
[...]
Rep. Jan Schakowsky, a Democrat on the committee, asked Brennan whether signature strikes might be motivating people to join extremists groups, effectively increasing the threat of attacks on the United States.
“From an intelligence community perspective, we're always evaluating and analyzing developments overseas to include any counter-terrorism activity that we might be involved in to see what the impact is,” Brennan replied. "And I think the feeling is that the counter terrorism activities that we have engaged in with our partners — we the U.S. government broadly, both from an intelligence perspective as well as from a military perspective — have greatly mitigated the threat to U.S. persons both overseas as well as in the homeland.”
The irony not lost on you then that where the US mega business war machine is not prevalent in the form of their market domination, the yanks invade them and enforce regime change on them?:chitown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper