SNP want to keep the £ and independence.

**KEVIN2008** · 30-05-2014, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

^^ Nope
What it wants is to be a republic like Eire (Southern Ireland) Could still retain the Queen as head of state as Australia New Zealand and Canada.

As a new Nation it would have to apply for membership to the EU. Scotland going its own way would be a complex and very expensive way for both countries. Armed services, Military installations, residency, passports border requirements etc. My god the civil service would be in heaven!

As to wealth I believe that 80% of UK wealth is generated by the 1sq mile of the financial district within the city of London. Scotland independence will be a pain in the arse for all, but then if they want to go that road good luck to them.

WHERE IS EIRE ??.............anyway read more:

IN OPINION KEVIN TOOLIS

But who really knows what the future brings when you are ending a 300-year-old political union?

Scots should recall the poverty of the Irish Free State
By Kevin Toolis

A nationalist state has carved itself out of the UK before. It was a disaster, writes Kevin Toolis

Karl Marx was right about one thing. History, in the form of secessionist nationalism within the UK, repeats itself – first as tragedy in Ireland and then as farce in Scotland. With his saltires and swagger, Alex Salmond has brought Scotland to the nationalist boil and shifted the very axis of democratic politics to a simplistic Yes or No.

Great things lie ahead in the Scottish National party’s promised land. No more Conservative governments. No more Westminster rule. No nuclear weapons (but continued membership of Nato). An English pound that is somehow also a Scottish Pound. Immunity from foreign economic woes in a global economy regardless of the declining oil reserves. And the arts, too, will flourish. Let 1,000 thistles bloom!

But who really knows what the future brings when you are ending a 300-year-old political union?
We do have one good historical model of what it is like to carve out a nationalist state from within the political union of the UK but it is not one the SNP is keen to cite.
For Ireland’s nationalist leaders Padraig Pearse and Eamon de Valera, nationhood could be hewed out in blood and rebellion. But the Irish Free State that arose in the 1920s was a parochial disaster – a backward step even from English rule, which was far from benign.
In creating its new Gaelic-Irish identity the Free State cremated its own twin British-Irish identity, constructed out of 400 years of colonisation and cultural exchange. Whole chapters of Irish history, such as the 200,000 Irish who fought in France in the first world war, just disappeared. And the Irish Free State turned in on itself, its politics reduced to a continual squabble over the lost battles of a civil war – who had betrayed whom; who was the faithful, who the traitorous.
Single-party misrule was to last for decades. Economic fortunes sank. Irish Taoiseachs – prime ministers – such as Charles Haughey almost openly looted the state’s treasuries. Far from being economically independent, the Irish punt was slave-pegged to the English pound. In all but name Ireland remained an economic vassal of the UK Treasury.
But that was not the worst. From the 1920s to the 1970s, millions of Irish were forced to flee – ironically to the UK, in search of work and social freedom. Amid that stream of exiles were Ireland’s greatest artists and writers, figures such as James Joyce, Samuel Beckett and Edna O’Brien, refugees from the suffocating social prohibitions of the new nationalist order. Rather than bloom, the shamrock withered.
In depth

Scotland will decide in a referendum to be held on September 18 2014 whether or not to end the 306-year-old union with England

A minor rebellion on the streets of Dublin in 1916 spawned a terrible beauty and an abysmal failed state. The Irish Free State did not make the Irish people free. It bound them in chains. It has taken nearly a century for Ireland to recover and for a real democracy to emerge from the ashes of the Easter rising.

For all his bluster and his mesmerising appeal, Mr Salmond is merely re-enacting the same empty farce in the would-be Scottish Free State.

There is no obvious merit in the SNP’s economics. Scotland can no more break free of the economic pull of the rest of the UK than the moon can break free of Earth’s gravity. This is physics, not philosophy. Actuarial tables do not lie and it is self-evidently true that sharing future risk across a nation of 60m rather than 5m will always be a safer option.
For nationalists, either Irish or Scottish, such economic uncertainties do not matter. Worrying about the welfare of ordinary Scots is beside the point; once Scotland gains her “independence”, the world will ipso facto be a better place. This is a self-evident moral truth. Those who deny it are misguided, malign or treacherous.

For a Scot like me, born in Edinburgh of Irish parents, Mr Salmond’s version of “independence” is a truly frightening project. Like its Irish antecedents, an independent Scotland will be founded not on the future promised land but in the flames of the pro-union Scottish identity. Already under the SNP government there has been a heavily felt redefinition of Scottish culture.

Single-party misrule was to last for decades. Economic fortunes sank. Irish Prime Mimnisters almost openly looted the state’s treasuries

Scotland is a small country and the hand of the SNP is felt in every arts funding round. Who can afford to break with their masters in Holyrood and speak up for the union? What has happened in the arts is a sign of things to come.
So-called cybernats prowl social media, trolling anyone who dissents. The referendum debate has collapsed into a slanging match where the best lack conviction and the worst are full of passionate intensity. Are you for us or against us? A traitor? Or one of the faithful?
After 300 years of political union, who defines “true” Scottishness? If you cannot be a Scot and a unionist then whole parts of our identity will have to disappear – or flow into exile just like the Irish.
Mr Salmond would no doubt like to be remembered for leading his people into the promised land. In his hubris, he is leading Scotland into the sterile wilderness and the chains of another empty nationalism.

The writer is a chronicler of Northern Ireland’s Troubles and playwright of ‘The Confessions of Gordon Brown’

**KEVIN2008** · 30-05-2014, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by Thormaturge

Originally Posted by patsycat

Jeez, I even know stuupid americans who have Irish passports because Grand daddy O'Reilly sailed into New York in 1903,

I'm waiting for Barack O'Bama to tell us about his Irish roots.

There's No One as Irish as Barack O'Bama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**Begbie** · 30-05-2014, 07:21 PM

It appears to be an alliance of neo nazis and orangemen who oppose Scottish independence.

**Chittychangchang** · 30-05-2014, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Begbie

It appears to be an alliance of neo nazis and orangemen who oppose Scottish independence.

The Scottish Nazi party SNP

Any other nationalist organisation is labelled racist, It's about time Herr Salmond and his ideological storm trooper's are labelled appropriately and outed as the racist's that they are.

It's unfortunate for the rest of the U.K that the canny Scot's put money before any ideology and are 60/40 in favour of a No vote.

**Chittychangchang** · 01-06-2014, 02:30 AM

Alex Salmond has been accused of a panicked and botched response to a Treasury analysis telling Scots they will be £1,400 per person better off every year if they reject independence.
Danny Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, unveiled a 73-page report that he said contained the most comprehensive long-term projections for a separate Scotland’s economy.
It concluded that Scots enjoy a substantial “UK dividend” and that independence would mean coping with sharply declining oil revenues, a more rapidly ageing population and £1.5 billion of start-up costs creating new institutions.
In an effort to limit the impact of the Treasury’s report, Mr Salmond arranged a press conference just before Mr Alexander’s and issued his own report arguing Scots would be £1,000 better off after 15 years of independence.
The document, held together by a paper clip, argued this figure could be achieved if Scotland could achieve higher economic growth, greater productivity and attract more immigrants.

SNP disarray over claims UK 'dividend' worth £1,400 to every Scot - Telegraph

**Chittychangchang** · 05-06-2014, 12:53 AM

SCOTTISH nationalists have reacted with fury after a Met Office study found the country’s weather was really quite unpleasant.

According to the research Scotland gets ‘a lot’ of rain, often accompanied by wind, and that the amount of sunshine is ‘statistically insignificant’.

But SNP leader and first minister, Alex Salmond, dismissed the study as a ‘pathetic attempt by unionist weathermen to talk Scotland down’.

He added: “The Met Office thinks Scotland is too wee and too wet to be a successful nation. An independent Scotland would enjoy the same climate as other small northern European countries, such as Norway and Iceland.”

Salmond insisted that, based on ‘perfectly reasonable assumptions’ Scotland’s weather would improve by four per cent in the 10 years after independence, delivering an annual per capita increase of six and a half hours of sunshine.

The SNP leader also highlighted figures which showed that Dunbar, a small town on the east coast, was already one of the sunniest places in Britain. Bill McKay, from Dunbar, added: “It’s raining. Again.”

A Met Office spokesman stressed it was ‘pretty sure’ its figures were correct, adding: “We use these little beakers to measure rainfall.”

Meanwhile, in a separate study, the London School of Economics claimed an independent Scotland could make an ‘enormous’ amount of money by exporting water.

**Chittychangchang** · 07-06-2014, 05:08 PM

Scottish independence: Shock as Barack Obama weighs into debate.. and says he hopes Scots vote No

Scottish independence: Shock as Barack Obama weighs into debate.. and says he hopes Scots vote No - Daily Record

**billy the kid** · 07-06-2014, 05:47 PM

103 days to Independence or

**dirk diggler** · 07-06-2014, 06:16 PM

Scotland is the only country in the world where a biased media and corrupt establishment have left many of it's people afraid of Independence.

“To call yourself Scottish after a No vote would be an embarrassment, because any population that votes not to be a country would be the laughing stock of the world. We would be the first country in history to reject our own independence. We would be considered weak and timid, a people who sing songs about being brave, and being a nation again, but when it came down to it were too cowardly to grasp it. Singing the Flower of Scotland would invite derision and laughter everywhere. People will be dumbfounded that such a rich country would prefer to let England take all its wealth and spend it as THEY see fit. That is what a No vote will be viewed like in the eyes of the world”
- Unknown

**dirk diggler** · 07-06-2014, 06:18 PM

And lets not forget that Cameron absolutely refuses to go to a debate with Salmond.

Pussy.

**Chittychangchang** · 07-06-2014, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Scotland is the only country in the world where a biased media and corrupt establishment have left many of it's people afraid of Independence.

“To call yourself Scottish after a No vote would be an embarrassment, because any population that votes not to be a country would be the laughing stock of the world. We would be the first country in history to reject our own independence. We would be considered weak and timid, a people who sing songs about being brave, and being a nation again, but when it came down to it were too cowardly to grasp it. Singing the Flower of Scotland would invite derision and laughter everywhere. People will be dumbfounded that such a rich country would prefer to let England take all its wealth and spend it as THEY see fit. That is what a No vote will be viewed like in the eyes of the world”
- Unknown

Kuwait was very "independent" in 1990 gulf war(selective memory, perhap's)...

**Neverna** · 07-06-2014, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

“To call yourself Scottish after a No vote would be an embarrassment, because any population that votes not to be a country would be the laughing stock of the world. We would be the first country in history to reject our own independence. We would be considered weak and timid, a people who sing songs about being brave, and being a nation again, but when it came down to it were too cowardly to grasp it. Singing the Flower of Scotland would invite derision and laughter everywhere. People will be dumbfounded that such a rich country would prefer to let England take all its wealth and spend it as THEY see fit. That is what a No vote will be viewed like in the eyes of the world”
- Unknown

That's a pretty persuasive argument to put to Scots before the vote, IMHO.

**Begbie** · 07-06-2014, 10:20 PM

**dirk diggler** · 08-06-2014, 08:06 AM

Let's have a quick look at The McCrone Report.

And here's the one it tells you to look up next

I've worked on the BP Clair and the extension, The Clair Ridge, is currently being built here in the Hyundai Ship Yard, South Korea. It has almost 3 million man hours on it to date and is coming along pretty nicely.

Anyway, any Scot must feel ripped off and angry after watching that first one.

“Of all the small nations of this earth, perhaps only the ancient Greeks surpass the Scots in their contribution to mankind.” ― Winston Churchill.

**Chittychangchang** · 11-06-2014, 02:24 AM

ALEX Salmond has finally admitted he hates Scotland and wants the country to be independent so he can abolish it.

The Scottish first minister insisted his fellow countrymen are the worst people in the world who spend most of their time ‘either threatening to kill you, or vomiting on you’.

He said: “I can’t keep lying. It’s a hellhole filled with drunken nutters, ghastly housing estates and food that is simply disgusting.

“I’m going to win independence, bankrupt the place, set fire to the buildings and then move to France – as long there aren’t any Scottish people there.

“I want to leave this place a wasteland, populated only by scavenging piss-artists and thousands of bastard folk singers.

“Now I’ve finally come clean, I suspect I will have the backing of the vast majority of Scots, who all hate each other as much as I hate every single one of them.”

Mr Salmond also revealed he ‘loves the way Vladimir Putin holds ordinary Russians in utter contempt’ and would gladly hand Scotland’s economy to the terrifying president and his gangster cronies.

He added: “All Scottish people are sexual deviants.”

**dirk diggler** · 11-06-2014, 10:45 PM

Just as well we're not voting for him then.

**Chittychangchang** · 11-06-2014, 10:52 PM

JK Rowling donates £1 million to Better Together campaign to fight Scottish independence
JK Rowling, the bestselling author of Harry Potter, compares extreme Scottish nationalists to Death Eaters, as she announces a £1million donation to the Better Together campaign
JK Rowling donates £1 million to Better Together campaign to fight Scottish independence - Telegraph

**dirk diggler** · 11-06-2014, 10:56 PM

She clearly lives in a fantasy world.

We're not voting for her either and we have nothing against gingers.

You're losing your way on this thread.

**Chittychangchang** · 11-06-2014, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

She clearly lives in a fantasy world.

We're not voting for her either and we have nothing against gingers.

You're losing your way on this thread.

What are you voting for? And how can you justify your vote?

CCC

**Albert Shagnastier** · 11-06-2014, 11:39 PM