Thread: Why Does The U.S Still Have Such a Hardon For Cuba?

It's been 65 years or so, why does the U.S still have such a negative attitude to Cuba?
They treat Vietnam and North Korea better than they do Cuba.
Travel restrictions, trade restrictions....
They know detente is the key to the collapse of communism, why does this little island bug them so much?
Is it the Kennedy thing? All just too embarrassing?

I have no idea. The Bay of Pigs was a huge foul-up, but then we've been awash in them ever since - Haiti, Somalia, Vietnam, Iran hostage situation, Iraq, Afghanistan.....got to be more to it than that.

Much of it has to do with the huge numbers of Cuban-Americans in the US - many of whom arrived with nothing but the shirts on their backs. As a group, they have been very successful, many are quite wealthy, and they wield a lot of political clout - they dominate Florida. Many of their children, and now grandchildren, are military officers - often in Special Ops.

These people hate Castro and his regime with a burning passion, passed on from one generation to the next. They have always maintained that as long as the Castro regime, or its legacy, remained in power, there could/would be no peaceful coexistence between the two countries.

I disagree, as a good dose of capitalism would bring Cuban communism to its knees in months, but they are adamant. And, the huge percentage of today's Cubans, who were born and raised on Castro's speeches, are equally stubborn.

Unfortunate situation all around.

pressure from the old Cuban mafia that were kicked out by Castro and now reside in Florida with their tails between the legs

florida is crawling with cuban-americans, and florida has 29 electoral votes which can swing presidential elections.

take all the cuban-americans out of florida and divide them equally amongst the 50 states, and US policy towards cuba would change quickly.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

As a group, they have been very successful, many are quite wealthy, and they wield a lot of political clout - they dominate Florida.

Many of these people are descendants of rich elites. They did not leave with just a shirt on their backs. They took the name of many fine Cuban cigars with them.

They were an oppressive scum that treated everyone below them like slaves often shooting workers in the back if they could not keep up. That is why Cuba was ripe for a revolution.

America is seeing the failure of the free market so why would you want to impose it on a country like Cuba? The mass exodus of Cubans is a fraud. Faux news would tell you otherwise but the fact is that not that many Cubans cross the boarder. Far more Mexicans do the boarder run and that is a "free market" economy.

Originally Posted by Necron99

It's been 65 years or so, why does the U.S still have such a negative attitude to Cuba?

It's ridiculous but as said above political clout of Cuban Americans. ffs it's not even in the interest of the US to maintain embargoes with Cuba.

"The UN General Assembly has urged the US to end more than 5-decade-old economic embargo against Cuba, which Havana describes as barbaric and amounted to genocide.

This came in a symbolic vote of the 193-nation General Assembly on Tuesday. The unenforceable resolution was 188-2. The United States and Israel voted against it, while Pacific island states of Micronesia, Marshall Islands and Palau abstained."


UN urges end of US embargo on Cuba - Americas - Al Jazeera English

In any case, I believe the travelling restrictions for Americans [to Cuba] has been lifted, if I'm not mistaken....perhaps I am wrong about this. Someone might correct me.

There are regularly scheduled commercial flights from Miami to Havana.

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

In any case, I believe the travelling restrictions for Americans [to Cuba] has been lifted, if I'm not mistaken....perhaps I am wrong about this. Someone might correct me.

There are regularly scheduled commercial flights from Miami to Havana.

Not banned, but heavily restricted.
And you can't leave any money behind.

Americans in Cuba - Wikitravel

Originally Posted by bsnub

They were an oppressive scum that treated everyone below them like slaves often shooting workers in the back if they could not keep up. That is why Cuba was ripe for a revolution.

any revolution that removes thugs and scums is a good one,

there are many reasons for it... that were legitimate 40 years ago.... but in 2014? jesus even china is trading partner of the US!

One of the reasons is the American sugar subsidies... for many years our growers down south did not want a bunch of cheap sugar to reach our shores. Sugar is/was an important crop (see the taking of Hawaii as an example)

lift it... get some good cigars... and let it go... its fucking stupid at this point...

Well it isn't over petrol, they don't have any. Sugarcane perhaps? So many good baseball players who should be Americans? Some of the best fuzzy kitty on the planet?

I arrived from Mexico City in the 80s. My passport wasn't stamped. Tourists were supposed to stay in tourist zones. Forget that!

They have what might be the best beaches in the world. On parts of it you can walk out half a kilometer or more without water reaching your face.

Americans traveling to Cuba in record numbers | Reuters

Originally Posted by Rainfall

"He said it was ironic that Cubans, due to reforms on the island, were now free to travel where they pleased while U.S. citizens were not.

Cubans can be denied travel.

Just criticize the government and your are prohibited from travel.

I have read her blog quite a bit: Yoani Sánchez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by barbaro

As for Cuba, it's a strange place IMO: bans on citizens owning mobile phones and access to Internet, and having to apply for a visa to take a 3 hour bus ride to say, visit your relatives.

Another weird communist hole.

That's what is left for the anti-communists, inventing untruths. Telecommunications in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by barbaro

As for Cuba, it's a strange place IMO: bans on citizens owning mobile phones and access to Internet, and having to apply for a visa to take a 3 hour bus ride to say, visit your relatives.

Another weird communist hole.

That's what is left for the anti-communists, inventing untruths. Telecommunications in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you actually read it?

A special permit is required to use the Internet. Access to the Internet is heavily controlled, and all e-mails are closely monitored

Mobile-cellular telephone service is expensive and must be paid in convertible pesos, which limits subscribership.

^ Rainfall,

Cubans were only recently allowed access to the Internet, and that is only a certain amount of people.

Also, mobile phones were banned and may still be.

A visa is required to take a 2 hour bus ride.

Nice try.

I know Cubans.

No question citizens rights and freedoms are heavily restricted by the Cuban government. So is the case in many countries US citizens and enterprise are allowed unrestricted travel and business. Continuing the embargo and restrictions against Cuba is ridiculous when compared with the human rights record of countries such as Saudi Arabia.

It is a disgrace, especially under the Obama administration which should have brought in far more changes than they have . . . oh, right - how to win an election if you lose Florida.
Guamtanamo anyone?

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

In any case, I believe the travelling restrictions for Americans [to Cuba] has been lifted, if I'm not mistaken....perhaps I am wrong about this. Someone might correct me.

There are regularly scheduled commercial flights from Miami to Havana.

I believe travel by Cubans visiting family is allowed, study trips and a few other exceptions.

Originally Posted by barbaro

bans on citizens owning mobile phones and access to Internet, and having to apply for a visa to take a 3 hour bus ride to say, visit your relatives.

I'd like to see this 'visa' requirement - do you have a link?

As well, the ban on people owning mobile phones and the ban on internet access.

Thank you

Originally Posted by barbaro

Cubans can be denied travel.

As are Americans . . . and not only to Cuba.

In these terms the US is far ore restrictive than Cuba

Originally Posted by Norton

No question citizens rights and freedoms are heavily restricted by the Cuban government. So is the case in many countries US citizens and enterprise are allowed unrestricted travel and business. Continuing the embargo and restrictions against Cuba is ridiculous when compared with the human rights record of countries such as Saudi Arabia.

Well put


In the meantime Europeans are enjoying Cuba, both in terms of business as well as pleasure . . . without America/ns around.

My bother was posted there for three months and simply loved it . . . this was after three months in Ashgabat so the feeling was twice as good

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by barbaro

As for Cuba, it's a strange place IMO: bans on citizens owning mobile phones and access to Internet, and having to apply for a visa to take a 3 hour bus ride to say, visit your relatives.

Another weird communist hole.

That's what is left for the anti-communists, inventing untruths. Telecommunications in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you actually read it?

A special permit is required to use the Internet. Access to the Internet is heavily controlled, and all e-mails are closely monitored

Mobile-cellular telephone service is expensive and must be paid in convertible pesos, which limits subscribership.

I read it. Special permits aren't what they used to be if 26% of the Cubans have internet access, and hundreds of thousands join every year. I bet that's more than in Haiti or Dominican Republic, two countries which always do what big brother desires. That's why they are piss-poor, and Cuba isn't.

Originally Posted by barbaro

A visa is required to take a 2 hour bus ride.

Nice try.

I know Cubans.

Yeah, nice try in slant reasoning. They need no visa to leave Cuba, but possibly for the destination. Just like Thais, part of the 'free world' since 10,000 BC. Yet Cubans can visit several times more countries without having to obtain a prior visa than Thais.

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by barbaro

A visa is required to take a 2 hour bus ride.

Nice try.

I know Cubans.

Yeah, nice try in slant reasoning. They need no visa to leave Cuba, but possibly for the destination. Just like Thais, part of the 'free world' since 10,000 BC. Yet Cubans can visit several times more countries without having to obtain a prior visa than Thais.

He is talking about Cubans needing permits to go to various parts of the island.
Not international travel.

You should be familiar with it.
Ver are your Papers!

I believe the term 'visa' has a narrow definition, it's a permit for non-citizens to enter a country. But you might be right and Barbaro meant this. Certainly, Cubans can travel abroad at will now, but need permissions for journeys within the country. Ok. Whatever.

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

It is a disgrace, especially under the Obama administration which should have brought in far more changes than they have . . . oh, right - how to win an election if you lose Florida.
Guamtanamo anyone?

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

In any case, I believe the travelling restrictions for Americans [to Cuba] has been lifted, if I'm not mistaken....perhaps I am wrong about this. Someone might correct me.

There are regularly scheduled commercial flights from Miami to Havana.

I believe travel by Cubans visiting family is allowed, study trips and a few other exceptions.

Originally Posted by barbaro

bans on citizens owning mobile phones and access to Internet, and having to apply for a visa to take a 3 hour bus ride to say, visit your relatives.

I'd like to see this 'visa' requirement - do you have a link?

Google is your friend.

As I have STATED BEFORE ON THIS THREAD,

I know Cubans and consider them my friends.