Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 39 of 39
  1. #26
    Banned

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    03-06-2014 @ 09:01 PM
    Posts
    27,545
    Difficult to ponder or speculate upon an entity that is purely illusion and fantasy, is it not...??

  2. #27
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on pacific ocean, south america
    Posts
    21,406
    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    Difficult to ponder or speculate upon an entity that is purely illusion and fantasy, is it not...??
    Yes, I do feel it's an illusion for most and fantasy. But the negative consequences are real.

    These markets are for a small few, yet so many working and middle-class stiffs have their meager saving and the few that have pensions and 401Ks have them tied to this illusion.

    A downturn is coming. You all have been warned.
    ............

  3. #28
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,054
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    A downturn is coming.
    and according to the thread title and date of your OP, it's coming before november 30th.

  4. #29
    Thailand Expat david44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Absinthe Without Leave
    Posts
    25,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    Difficult to ponder or speculate upon an entity that is purely illusion and fantasy, is it not...??

    Nope in rigged markets with insider traders who benefit from corrections you can anticipate there will be more ups and downs than a French whores drawers



    PS The bent socal climbers will be coming round the mountain when they come

  5. #30
    Banned

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    03-06-2014 @ 09:01 PM
    Posts
    27,545
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    Difficult to ponder or speculate upon an entity that is purely illusion and fantasy, is it not...??
    Yes, I do feel it's an illusion for most and fantasy. But the negative consequences are real.

    These markets are for a small few, yet so many working and middle-class stiffs have their meager saving and the few that have pensions and 401Ks have them tied to this illusion.

    A downturn is coming. You all have been warned.
    I believe a Gandhi-esque approach is in order.
    No negitive consequences if you don't play the game to be trapped.

    Unfortunately, it all trickles down - and even those who live off the grid are caught up......because the systems are so universally suppressive. No escape.

  6. #31
    Banned

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    03-06-2014 @ 09:01 PM
    Posts
    27,545
    Why do we continue to insist that there is wealth, value, or worth?

    There isn't.
    Image and hocus-pocus isn't real.

    Live free.

  7. #32
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on pacific ocean, south america
    Posts
    21,406
    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    A downturn is coming.
    and according to the thread title and date of your OP, it's coming before november 30th.
    A good reminder, Ray.

    People need to remember to protect themselves.

  8. #33
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Today @ 11:39 PM
    Posts
    25,348
    the thread reminded me of this piece from last week - the full article is at the link

    He does not say how imminent , but he believes things are close

    I am thinking to remove my money from the market and place it in currency , though I have not decided which currency - USD was the first thought , but I wonder how much confidence is left in it , though there was a slight rush to it last month when things looked a little wobbly

    Asia Times Online :: The makings for a major top


    The makings for a major top

    The thesis has been that unconstrained global credit inherently fuels serial boom and bust cycles. In particular, the dramatic policy response to the 2008/09 collapse of the mortgage finance bubble incited unprecedented financial and economic excess in China and throughout the ''developing'' economies.

    Double-digit credit growth has been compounding over recent years in China, Brazil, India, Turkey and, generally, throughout Asia and Latin America. I have referred to such a late-cycle dynamic as the ''terminal phase'' of credit bubble excess.

    For going on five years now, unprecedented ''hot money'' has inundated emerging market (EM) financial systems and economies. And as ''money'' flooded in, EM central banks ''recycled'' much of this liquidity right back into US Treasuries, German bunds, and sovereign debt around the world. This massive flow of finance into EM also spurred a spectacular expansion in sovereign wealth funds (SWF), hedge funds and the ''global leveraged speculating community'' more generally.

    The rapid growth in both EM central bank reserve assets, as well as the global pool of speculative finance, solidified the perception of unlimited cheap global liquidity. Repeated - and increasingly desperate - central bank measures over recent years have further crystallized the perception that global markets enjoy a powerful liquidity backstop. Accordingly, speculation has run roughshod through the global markets.

    A strong case can be made that recent years have seen the greatest episode of global securities mispricing in history. Global yields collapsed throughout, although nowhere has this mispricing been more pronounced than with EM bond markets.

    For example, Brazilian (dollar-denominated) bond yields collapsed from above 25% in 2002 to a record low 2.5% last year (currently 4.8%). After averaging about 7% for the period 2003-2011, Turkish (dollar-denominated) bond yields sank to a record low 3.17% in November 2012 (currently 5.6%). After last year sinking to record low 2.84%, Indonesian dollar bond yields have jumped back to 6.12%.

    The bullish EM case has been premised on superior fundamentals compared to the developed world. The bear case is that EM markets have been at the heart of historic bubble excess. I posit that EM securities markets have provided the most extreme case of misperceptions, speculative excess and a general mispricing of risk throughout. I would further argue that the EM bubble has begun to burst.

    Moreover, I would expect that global markets have likely commenced a problematic ''periphery'' to ''core'' credit and economic crisis - where risk aversion, de-leveraging and resulting liquidity issues gravitate from one market to the next. This dynamic has been held somewhat at bay by massive Fed and Bank of Japan quantitative easing and the liquidity backstop of European Central Bank president Mario Draghi.

    So far in 2013, the Brazilian real has declined 12.66% and the Argentine peso 12.59%. India's rupee has dropped 13.25%. The Turkish lira is down 10.26%, the Indonesia rupiah 11.44%, the Malaysian ringgit 7.35%, and the Thai baht 3.96%. The South African rand has lost 17.28% and the Russian rouble 7.51%.

    Over the past three months, the Brazilian real has declined 12.98%, the Indian rupee 12.32%, the Indonesian rupiah 11.53%, the Malaysian ringgit 8.10%, the Turkish lira 7.11%, the South African rand 6.98%, the Argentine peso 6.42%, the Thai baht 6.09% and the Philippine peso 5.63%.

    Market action in recent months has caught many participants be surprise, including some of the most sophisticated market operators. In particular, instead of rallying on heightened EM instability, ''core'' sovereign bonds have been hit by unexpected selling pressure. Treasury yields have surged 82 basis points during the past three months and bund yields have jumped 50 bps. Recent atypical correlations between ''core'' (perceived safe haven) bonds and EM risk markets have thrown a monkey wrench into many investment/speculation strategies (including variations of popular ''risk parity'' models).

    August 22 - Financial Times (Robin Wigglesworth): ''Central banks in the developing world have lost $81bn of emergency reserves through capital outflows and currency market interventions since early May, even before the recent renewal of turmoil in emerging markets. The figure, which excludes China, is equal to roughly 2% of all developing country central bank reserves, according to Morgan Stanley analysts, who compiled the data from central bank filings for May, June and July. However some countries have suffered more precipitous drops. Indonesia has lost 13.6% of its central bank reserves between the end of April and the end of July, Turkey 12.7% and Ukraine burnt through almost 10%. India, another country that has seen its currency pummelled in recent months, has shed almost 5.5% of its reserves. 'It's a real regime change compared to what we have been used to for the past decade,' said James Lord, a Morgan Stanley strategist. 'We saw huge reserve accumulation as emerging markets tried to stem currency appreciation, but now we're seeing the exact opposite.'''

    The flood of ''hot money'' finance into EM spurred years of domestic credit system excess and attendant destabilizing loose ''money''. The reversal of ''hot money'' flows has now instigated a problematic tightening of finance. Importantly, years of historic loose finance created credit systems and economic structures vulnerable to any meaningful tightening of financial conditions. Over recent months, this latent fragility has been increasingly on display.

    I have argued that the dramatic policy measures from one year ago (Draghi's ''do whatever it takes'' and the Fed's $85 billion monthly QE) were in response to heightened global fragilities - and that such desperate measures would only work to further destabilize already disorderly global finance. As for EM, unwieldy flows over the past year have, I believe, only created greater fragilities. In Europe, Draghi's OMT (''outright monetary transactions'') backstop was instrumental in both a loosening of finance and a general political backtracking from financial and economic reform (especially at the troubled ''periphery'').

    In the US, open-ended QE has had minimal impact on the unemployment rate, while exerting dramatic effects on stock prices, corporate debt issuance (especially riskier debt) and home prices (particularly at the upper-end). Going on five years of near-zero short-term rates and bond market interventions have coerced an unprecedented shift of saver assets from the safety of ''money'' to the risk market wolves. The belief that the Federal Reserve and global central banks would continue to backstop risk markets has been fundamental to epic market mispricing.

    Moreover, trillions have flowed into myriad perceived ''money-like'' products, strategies and funds (exchange-traded funds, hedge funds, SWFs, ''bond'' and ''total return'' funds, and various ''structured products'' and other derivatives) where investors have little appreciation for the degree of associated price, credit and liquidity risks.

    The protracted period of massive flows significantly impacted the markets in the underlying securities acquired through these strategies, in particular distorting perceptions of marketplace liquidity (in particular for EM securities and US municipal debt). Misperceptions coupled with significantly inflated securities prices create latent market fragilities.

    It's not difficult for speculators and investors alike in US markets to disregard the unfolding EM crisis along with market risk more generally. After all, ignoring global macro issues has been rewarded handsomely for some time now. Moreover, with the Fed and Bank of Japan combining for about $160 billion of monthly QE, ample (developed) marketplace liquidity has seemingly been ensured. And increasingly unstable ''periphery'' markets also seem to ensure rotation from EM to developed markets, especially US stocks.

    This is particularly the case with the highly inflated (performance-chasing and trend-following) ''global pool of speculative finance''. Indeed, the confluence of acute EM fragilities, $85 billion monthly QE and highly-speculative markets has spurred progressively more dangerous speculative excess throughout the US equities marketplace.

    August 21 - Wall Street Journal (Juliet Chung and Rob Barry): ''Short sellers are facing their worst losses in at least a decade, a Wall Street Journal analysis has found, as many of the rising stocks they bet against have only continued to soar. That has stung several high-profile hedge-fund managers, including William Ackman and David Einhorn, who have placed prominent short bets. In the Russell 3000 index, the 100 most heavily shorted stocks are sharply outperforming the average returns of stocks in the index, according to a Journal analysis of data provided by S&P Capital IQ. The shorted stocks are up by an average of 33.8% through Aug 16, versus 18.3% for all stocks in the index. The gap between the performance of the most-shorted shares ... and the market as a whole is wider than it has been in at least a decade ... 'It's actually more painful now than it was in '99,' said veteran short seller Andrew Left of ... Citron Research.''

    My ''Issues 2013'' premise was that an increasingly distended ''global government finance bubble'' was susceptible to significant bipolar risks: an intensified bubble might either begin to falter or it would become a case of ''how crazy do things get''. Well, at this point, there are cracks to go along with a lot of craziness. Comparisons to 1999 speculative excesses resonate. And while it is easy for most to dismiss (or, better yet, relish) the pain being inflicted upon those caught short, the bludgeoning of the bears is indicative of a highly speculative marketplace that has become disconnected from underlying fundamentals.

    Global markets have become keenly sensitive to Fed ''tapering'' risks. On the one hand, the unfolding EM crisis has sparked de-risking and de-leveraging dynamics. ''Hot money'' has begun to flee EM, in the process initiating the self-reinforcing downside to what has been a historic credit boom. EM central banks have been forced to sell international reserves (Treasury, bund, etc.) to bolster their flagging currencies and vulnerable debt and securities markets. Resulting higher yields have forced de-risking and de-leveraging in (''safe haven'') Treasuries, which has worked to pressure US MBS and muni debt, in particular.

    On the other hand, Fed QE is fueling major market distortions. The Fed liquidity backstop has provided a magnetic pull for global ''hot money,'' giving a competitive advantage to US risk assets, stocks, corporate debt and, ultimately, the US economy. In a replay of the late-'90s, the ''king dollar'' dynamic has been exacerbating EM outflows and attendant fragilities. Meanwhile, the supposed inevitable winding down of QE provides an incentive for EM central banks and the speculator community to commence de-risking prior to the withdrawal of the Federal Reserve's market liquidity backstop. If bonds trade this poorly in the face of the Fed's $85 billion monthly purchases, who is content to wait and see the marketplace liquidity profile when our central bank is no longer a huge buyer.

    The unfolding tightening of EM financial conditions portends trouble for the global economy. EM markets have begun to adjust to harsh new realities. Developed markets, if they were functioning normally, would have begun to adjust to mounting risks to global financial and economic systems. Instead, market players assume heightened fragilities will only extend the period of unprecedented developed central bank ''money printing'' and market intervention. This view was bolstered by Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke's comments that the Fed would ''push back'' against any tightening of financial conditions.

    The upshot has been a late-cycle speculative melt-up in US equities, in particular. Popularly shorted stocks have been targeted for ''squeezes'' the most aggressively since 1999. So-called ''high beta'' stocks have become market darlings like it's 1999. Stocks with minimal earnings (hence, little risk of earnings disappointments) have become the target of market game-playing and shenanigans to an extent not experienced since 1999.

    The excesses from 1999 set the backdrop for a major market bubble top in early-2000. Yet the late-'90s bubble was relatively contained, chiefly impacting a narrow group of stocks, the technology sector and only a segment of the US and global economy. The now well-entrenched ''global government finance bubble'' has become deeply systemic in the US and abroad. The bubble essentially enveloped all risk market and myriad strategies. It has fueled conspicuous speculative excess in risky strategies. It has, as well, fueled unappreciated excesses throughout perceived low-risk strategies.

    If you torture data for enough time , you can get it to say what you want.

  9. #34
    Thailand Expat
    poorfalang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Online
    27-02-2020 @ 08:01 PM
    Location
    in the sticks
    Posts
    1,427
    end of the US dollar.Economy owned by the world.
    new world order or at least american order ( we are fucked, we no longer control the world, and we must take care of ourselves and leave others to themselves)

  10. #35
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on pacific ocean, south america
    Posts
    21,406
    Even I....can be off....but the question is: by how much?

    15 Signs That We Are Near The Peak Of An
    Absolutely Massive Stock Market Bubble

    Michael Snyder

    One of the men that won the Nobel Prize for economics this year says that "bubbles look like this" and that he is "most worried about the boom in the U.S. stock market."
    But you don't have to be a Nobel Prize winner to see what is happening. It should be glaringly apparent to anyone with half a brain.

    The financial markets have been soaring while the overall economy has been stagnating. Reckless injections of liquidity into the financial system by the Federal Reserve have pumped up stock prices to ridiculous extremes, and people are becoming concerned. In fact, Google searches for the term "stock bubble" are now at the highest level that we have seen since November 2007.

    Despite assurances from the mainstream media and the Federal Reserve that everything is just fine, many Americans are beginning to realize that we have seen this movie before. We saw it during the dotcom bubble, and we saw it during the lead up to the horrible financial crisis of 2008. So precisely when will the bubble burst this time? Nobody knows for sure, but without a doubt this irrational financial bubble will burst at some point. Remember, a bubble is always the biggest right before it bursts, and the following are 15 signs that we are near the peak of an absolutely massive stock market bubble...

    #1 Bob Shiller, one of the winners of this year's Nobel Prize for economics, says that "bubbles look like this" and that he is "most worried about the boom in the U.S. stock market."

    #2 The total amount of margin debt has risen by 50 percent since January 2012 and it is now at the highest level ever recorded.
    The last two times that margin debt skyrocketed like this were just before the bursting of the dotcom bubble in 2000 and just before the financial crisis of 2008. When this house of cards comes crashing down, things are going to get very messy...

    "When the tablecloth gets pulled out from under the place settings, you're going to have a lot of them crash and smash on the floor," said Uri Landesman, president of Platinum Partners hedge fund. "That margin's going to get pulled and everyone's going to have to cover. That's when you get really serious corrections."

    #3 Since the bottom of the market in 2009, the Dow has jumped 143 percent, the S&P 500 is up 165 percent and the Nasdaq has risen an astounding 213 percent. This does not reflect economic reality in any way, shape or form.

    #4 Market research firm TrimTabs says that the S&P 500 is "very overpriced" right now.

    #5 Marc Faber recently told CNBC that "we are in a gigantic speculative bubble".

    #6 In the United States, Google searches for the term "stock bubble" are at the highest level that we have seen since November 2007 - just before the last stock market crash.

    #7 Price to earnings ratios are very high right now...

    The Dow was trading at 17.8 times the past four quarters of earnings of its 30 components, according to The Wall Street Journal on Friday. That was up from 13.7 times its earnings a year ago. The S&P 500 is trading at 18.7 times earnings. The Nasdaq-100 Index is trading at 21.5 times earnings. At the very least, the ratios are signaling that stock prices are rich.

    #8 According to CNBC, Pinterest is currently valued at more than 3 billion dollars even though it has never earned a profit.

    #9 Twitter is a seven-year-old company that has never made a profit. It actually lost 64.6 million dollars last quarter. But according to the financial markets it is currently worth about 22 billion dollars.

    #10 Right now, Facebook is trading at a valuation that is equivalent to approximately 100 years of earnings, and it is currently supposedly worth about 115 billion dollars.

    #11 Howard Marks of Oaktree Capital recently stated that he believes that "markets are riskier than at any time since the depths of the 2008/9 crisis".


    #12 As Graham Summers recently noted, retail investors are buying stocks at a level not seen since the peak of the dotcom bubble back in 2000.

    #13 David Stockman, a former director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan, believes that this financial bubble is going to end very badly...

    "We have a massive bubble everywhere, from Japan, to China, Europe, to the UK. As a result of this, I think world financial markets are extremely dangerous, unstable, and subject to serious trouble and dislocation in the future."

    #14 Bob Janjuah of Nomura Securities believes that there "could be a 25% to 50% sell off in global stock markets" over the next couple of years.

    #15 According to Tyler Durden of Zero Hedge, the U.S. stock market is repeating a pattern that we have seen many times before. According to him, we are experiencing "a well-defined syndrome of 'overvalued, overbought, overbullish, rising-yield' conditions that has appeared exclusively at speculative market peaks – including (exhaustively) 1929, 1972, 1987, 2000, 2007, 2011 (before a market loss of nearly 20% that was truncated by investor faith in a new round of monetary easing), and at three points in 2013: February, May, and today."

    As I mentioned at the top of this article, this stock market bubble has been fueled by quantitative easing. Easy money from the Fed has been artificially inflating stock prices, and this has greatly benefited a very small percentage of the U.S. population. In fact, 82 percent of all individually held stocks are owned by the wealthiest 5 percent of all Americans.

    When this stock market bubble does burst, those wealthy Americans are going to be in for a tremendous amount of pain.

    But there are some people out there that argue that what we are witnessing is not a stock market bubble at all. That includes Janet Yellen, the new head of the Federal Reserve. Recently, she insisted that there is absolutely nothing to be worried about...


    "Stock prices have risen pretty robustly," Yellen said. "But I think that if you look at traditional valuation measures, you would not see stock prices in territory that suggests bubble-like conditions."

    We shall see who was right and who was wrong. Let's all file that one away and come back to it in a few years.

    So where are stocks going next?

    If you had the answer to that question, you could probably make a lot of money.

    Yes, the current bubble could burst at any moment, or stocks could continue going up for a little while longer.

    After all, the S&P 500 has risen in December about 80 percent of the time over the past thirty years.

    Perhaps that will be the case this December as well.

    Perhaps not.

    Do you feel lucky?

    theeconomiccollapseblog.com

    http://www.silverbearcafe.com/privat...3/massive.html

  11. #36
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,054
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    Even I....can be off....but the question is: by how much?
    about 4 years with your israel imminent attack on iran thread.


    and btw, regarding the article in your above post....just what do you expect from theeconomiccllapseblog.com....a bullish perspective?

  12. #37
    I am in Jail

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Online
    19-06-2023 @ 09:10 PM
    Location
    Chiang Mai
    Posts
    5,734
    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post

    about 4 years with your israel imminent attack on iran thread.

    TBF, the Israel/Iran thread was a poll and it was asking whether people thought that Israel would attack Iran or not, the thread didnt state that Israel WOULD attack Iran, it asked whether it would or not.

  13. #38
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on pacific ocean, south america
    Posts
    21,406
    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    Even I....can be off....but the question is: by how much?
    about 4 years with your israel imminent attack on iran thread.
    Note the Question Mark on that thread -->

    I never predicted or implied an attack was imminent. In fact, I've stated the opposite.

  14. #39
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last Online
    14-09-2014 @ 04:20 PM
    Location
    Bangkok, the City of Angels!
    Posts
    3,071
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro View Post
    The American stock / equity market will see a downturn within 16 weeks.

    Today is August 10th, 2013.
    Tick tock, tick tock...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •