Thread: Racism. Can it be justified? I think so.

^ why did you ever leave your home town?

Although I am not certain I would term it 'racist' in all cases, I think that we are all prejudiced to one degree or another, mostly based on our life experiences. I have never lived in, or visited, Africa, thus have no strong feelings about Africans one way or the other. I have lived in Saudi, and loathe them. I lived for seven years in Southwest Asia, and don't have very positive feelings for Indians, Bangladeshis, or Pakistanis. If I am walking down a city street in the US, my reaction to a group of blacks in military uniforms, and to a group of blacks in gang-banger garb will be quite different. I think it is so for most people; you learn from experience. Religion is something different - I tend to think the radical elements of most major faiths are mental cases, and should be viewed as such.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Although I am not certain I would term it 'racist' in all cases, I think that we are all prejudiced to one degree or another, mostly based on our life experiences. .... If I am walking down a city street in the US, my reaction to a group of blacks in military uniforms, and to a group of blacks in gang-banger garb will be quite different. I think it is so for most people; you learn from experience. ....

I dont think thats racism - I am white, and when I see some white skinheads I cross the street to avoid them.

good OP and hopefully a catalyst for some valid discussion .

I suggest we begin with a agreeable definition of racism .

rac·ism

/ˈrāˌsizəm/

Noun

• The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...
• Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

Linky


with raises an immediate problem in that I'm racist according to point #1


and not according to point #2 ......

Racism is a weak and ignorant reaction in my opinion.

Having said that, stereotyping people is only logical.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Racism is a weak and ignorant reaction in my opinion.

Having said that, stereotyping people is only logical.

I'm none the wiser why you would say that Albert, and then why you would contradict yourself apparently. Reasons behind your thinking would be great please.

tks

Dave B

Interesting OP,

All I would like to add is that you sound perfectly normal and your musings are sound.

Going on your OP we are all Racist in one way or another.

So true, the difference being is that many don't like to express there inner Racism and would never say they don't like a particular race whatever that race might be.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Racism is a weak and ignorant reaction in my opinion.

Having said that, stereotyping people is only logical.

If you stereotype people its the same as Racism.

Two different words containing the same meaning but misinterpreted differently depending on ones thought processes.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I hate all Scots because they are mean, play the bagpipes and wear skirts

I especially dislike anyone from Aberdeen because they smell funny

as for Egyptians, they are great people and very kind, they helped me a lot when I had some probelms there

I have never been helped by anyone from Aberdeen

ha ha ha ha i liked that. Methinks you might have problems wherever you go Doc.
Now, lie down, get comfy and tell me your myriad of problems and see if uncle Dave here can sort something out.

There. Now don't ever say again that the offer of help was never extended to you by an Aberdonian.

Dave B

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I hate all Scots because they are mean, play the bagpipes and wear skirts

I especially dislike anyone from Aberdeen because they smell funny

as for Egyptians, they are great people and very kind, they helped me a lot when I had some problems there

I have never been helped by anyone from Aberdeen

This is a case of stereotyping but in some peoples minds they would say its Racism.

In my mind its neither, its only Doc's personal opinion, others might totally disagree with him.

Does not matter, he is entitled to his opinion the same as the OP is expressing his personal opinion.

Its called Democracy and freedom of Speech.

Originally Posted by terry57

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I hate all Scots because they are mean, play the bagpipes and wear skirts

I especially dislike anyone from Aberdeen because they smell funny

as for Egyptians, they are great people and very kind, they helped me a lot when I had some problems there

I have never been helped by anyone from Aberdeen

This is a case of stereotyping but in some peoples minds they would say its Racism.

In my mind its neither, its only Doc's personal opinion, others might totally disagree with him.

Does not matter, he is entitled to his opinion the same as the OP is expressing his personal opinion.

Its called Democracy and freedom of Speech.

no Terry, it wasn't my opinion, not at all

it was merely a satire on stupidity and racism

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by piwanoi

a member of a religious group walks into a crowed market and detonates 10kgs of semtex strapped to his chest ,killing not only himself but 57 innocent people and wounding 97 others ,would you say that the perpetrator was a white Jehovah,s witness from Cambridge? , A white Mormon from salt lake city in Utah? , a White Co Of E from Hull in Yorkshire? or an Afghan muslim from Kabul in Afghanistan ?

That would depend on when you asked the question, to whom, and where. If you had asked a while fellow in late world war two, he would have likely answered a Jap. Now, he would likely answer a Moslem. If you had asked an Indian on the late 1980's, he would likely answer a Tamil.

To counter the superior numbers of the Chola empire's army in the 11th century AD, suicide squads were raised by the Indian Chera rulers. This helped the Cheras to resist Chola invasion and maintain the independence of their kingdom from the time of Kulothunga Chola I. These warriors were known as the "chavers".[7] Later, these suicide squads rendered service as police, volunteer troop and fighting squads in the region. Now their primary duty was to assist local rulers in battles and skirmishes. The rulers of the state of Valluvanad are known to have deployed a number of suicide squads against the ruler of Calicut.
In the late 17th century Qing official Yu Yonghe recorded that injured Dutch soldiers fighting against Koxinga's forces for control of Taiwan in 1661 would use gunpowder to blow up both themselves and their opponents rather than be taken prisoner.[8] However, the Chinese observer may have confused such suicidal tactics with the standard Dutch military practice of undermining and blowing up positions recently overrun by the enemy which almost cost Koxinga his life during the siege.[9]
During the Belgian Revolution, on February 5, 1831, Dutch Lieutenant Jan van Speijk detonated his own ship in the harbour of Antwerp to prevent its capture by the Belgians.
Another example was the Prussian soldier Karl Klinke on 18 April 1864 at the Battle of Dybbøl, who died blowing a hole in a Danish fortification.
In the 18th century, John Paul Jones wrote about Ottoman sailors setting their own ships on fire and ramming the ships of their enemies, while refusing to leave their vessels, although they knew this meant certain death for them.
Modern suicide bombing as a political tool can be traced back to the assassination of Tsar Alexander II of Russia in 1881. Alexander fell victim to a Nihilist plot. While driving on one of the central streets of Saint Petersburg, near the Winter Palace, he was mortally wounded by the explosion of hand-made grenades and died a few hours afterwards. The Tsar was killed by a member of Narodnaya Volya, Ignacy Hryniewiecki, who died while intentionally exploding the bomb during the attack.
Andrew Kehoe detonated explosives in his car to end the Bath School disaster.
Rudolf Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff intended to assassinate Adolf Hitler by suicide bomb in 1943, but was unable to complete the attack.[10]
During the Battle for Berlin the Luftwaffe flew Selbstopfereinsatz against Soviet bridges over the Oder River. These missions were flown by pilots of the Leonidas Squadron under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Heiner Lange. From 17 April until 20 April 1945, using any aircraft that were available, the Luftwaffe claimed that the squadron destroyed 17 bridges. However the military historian Antony Beevor when writing about the incident thinks that this was exaggerated and that only the railway bridge at Küstrin was definitely destroyed. He comments that "thirty-five pilots and aircraft was a high price to pay for such a limited and temporary success". The missions were called off when the Soviet ground forces reached the vicinity of the squadron's airbase at Jüterbog.[11]
Following World War II, Viet Minh "death volunteers" fought against the French Colonial Forces by using a long stick-like explosive to destroy French tanks.
An Arab Christian military officer from Syria, Jules Jammal, used a suicide bomb attack to bring down a French ship during the Suez Crisis in 1956.[12][dubious – discuss]
The Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) used proxy suicide bombers in a series of attacks in 1990s. These consisted of civilian employees of the British army or other government organisations being captured and forced to drive explosive-laden vehicles into army checkpoints or government establishments. In the most lethal incident, five British soldiers and a civilian employee of the British military were killed when the employee (a cook) was forced to drive a 1,000lb bomb into a checkpoint in Derry. The IRA quickly ceased using the practice as many of their supporters were outraged over the use of such tactics.

Suicide attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm a bit bemused really at the inordinate amount of attention paid to suicide bombing- I mean, if that 10kg of semtex where in a bag loaded with shrapnel, it would cause a lot more death & destruction than strapped to a torso, which absorbs a good deal of the blast. I suppose it is the sheer fanaticism involved- but the victims of suicide bombings are a fraction of those killed by IED's in general. Not to mention military bombing, mining etc. I cannot think of any examples of suicide bombings carried out on behalf of superior military forces- it is generally the preserve of those fighting much greater conventional military strength.

You only had 4 choices and you had to pick one of them, remember?

I'm racist , I see race and think different races have different qualities , myself I like the European race as it's the most intelligent , beautiful, creative, artistic etc.
But while I think this race has the right to defend it's self from other races invading our land and lowering us to thier level.
I disagree with the OP that being better gives us a right to invade others, that's fascism, called social darwinism - and to be avoided ,even if it means the conquered peoples are better off eg Africans under the British Empire.

Originally Posted by blue

I'm racist , I see race and think different races have different qualities , myself I like the European race as it's the most intelligent , beautiful, creative, artistic etc.
But while I think this race has the right to defend it's self from other races invading our land and lowering us to thier level.
I disagree with the OP that being better gives us a right to invade others, that's fascism, called social darwinism - and to be avoided ,even if it means the conquered peoples are better off eg Africans under the British Empire.

I like your post very much.
However, i do believe in 'Social Darwinism'. I believe it's humanities best way forward.

Dave B

For me, it's pretty much all shaped by experience. In Asia, my exposure to North Asians (Chinese, Korean and Japanese) has been much more limited than my exposure to South Asians. I find Chinese to be rude and pushy, Koreans to be thoroughly obnoxious, and Japanese to just be flat out weird. But, I have only done extended visits to those countries. I have lived/worked in Southeast Asia for almost 25 years. I generally like Thais, Cambodians, Lao and Filipinos. I generally find the females to be much more useful than the males. I doubt that I will ever see Vietnamese as anything other than pop-up targets.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

I doubt that I will ever see Vietnamese as anything other than pop-up targets.

I was tempted to make a crass reference to an "interesting" evening spent with three of HCMC's finest in KL once, but I won't.

Brutal honestly from the Knowltonmeister though. Top work.

People who are deliberately overtly not racist are just as dangerous as the thugs aberlour described though. What I mean by that are those who go to extreme lengths to not be seen as in the slightest bit racist, and in doing so, excuse and condone some pretty horrendous activities as a result. I mentioned in on another thread saying that if an Indian or an African cold calls me I will assume it is a con more than a Brit, Aussie or an Yank did. To be fair, it is stupid because the whities are more likely to be calling with the scam, especially in Asia.

As an example, imagine you are taken to a party by a mate, know noone and your mate buggers off and leaves you a room with this lot.



Now asaide from thinking your mate knew some fucking weird people....who would you most likely chat with?

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

I doubt that I will ever see Vietnamese as anything other than pop-up targets.

I was tempted to make a crass reference to an "interesting" evening spent with three of HCMC's finest in KL once, but I won't.

Brutal honestly from the Knowltonmeister though. Top work.

People who are deliberately overtly not racist are just as dangerous as the thugs aberlour described though. What I mean by that are those who go to extreme lengths to not be seen as in the slightest bit racist, and in doing so, excuse and condone some pretty horrendous activities as a result. I mentioned in on another thread saying that if an Indian or an African cold calls me I will assume it is a con more than a Brit, Aussie or an Yank did. To be fair, it is stupid because the whities are more likely to be calling with the scam, especially in Asia.

As an example, imagine you are taken to a party by a mate, know noone and your mate buggers off and leaves you a room with this lot.



Now asaide from thinking your mate knew some fucking weird people....who would you most likely chat with?

Socal, on the right, would be entertaining.

Originally Posted by rovingdave

Originally Posted by blue

I'm racist , I see race and think different races have different qualities , myself I like the European race as it's the most intelligent , beautiful, creative, artistic etc.
But while I think this race has the right to defend it's self from other races invading our land and lowering us to thier level.
I disagree with the OP that being better gives us a right to invade others, that's fascism, called social darwinism - and to be avoided ,even if it means the conquered peoples are better off eg Africans under the British Empire.

I like your post very much.
However, i do believe in 'Social Darwinism'. I believe it's humanities best way forward.

Dave B

You are pretty confused, mate. In today's context, racism and Social Darwinism are almost diametrically opposed. In short, a rich Nigerian has a greater right to live and reproduce than you. I suggest you give it some serious thoughts where your priorities are.

Originally Posted by rovingdave

Originally Posted by blue

I'm racist , I see race and think different races have different qualities , myself I like the European race as it's the most intelligent , beautiful, creative, artistic etc.
But while I think this race has the right to defend it's self from other races invading our land and lowering us to thier level.
I disagree with the OP that being better gives us a right to invade others, that's fascism, called social darwinism - and to be avoided ,even if it means the conquered peoples are better off eg Africans under the British Empire.

I like your post very much.
However, i do believe in 'Social Darwinism'. I believe it's humanities best way forward.

Dave B

In a parallel world, what if Darwin was of an Asian or African ethnicity?
His ingrained theories and thought being contradictory to the expected European model of evolving and invented inferior/superior factors.

Might we find things different?

At certain levels racism is justified.
If you wanted to build a swim team from scratch you could pretty much restrict it to whitey.
Attraction, I think abo's are throwback ugly and no amount of tolerance or kumbayah singing is going to change that.
To not like or tolerate someone purely on their race is stupidly limiting so don't count myself racist on that count. Race itself doesn't define whether I find someone agreeable.
I don't however think there is anything wrong per see with being culturalist. There are certain cultures and belief systems that are antithetical to my core beliefs. I could not, for instance find myself being friends or wanting to engage with a creationist, or a hard line Muslim, or someone from a culture that didnt wash, or treated women as chattels, the list is extensive. People who spit on the floor, or wipe their arse with their hand and eschew plumbing...