Outsourcing

**barbaro** · 11-04-2007, 07:01 PM

Of course this has been in existence for some time, and it continues to this day. Do you know anyone personally that has lost their job (I know many have directly in many industries in Europe, UK, North America, Korea, etc.

The article below just goes to show (as member here already know) that outsourcing of many jobs is happening. Even Smith Barney Financial Brokerage Houses and loan collections.

ue Apr 10, 2:16 PM ET NEW YORK (Reuters) - Citigroup Inc. (NYSE:C - news) is likely to cut a "net" 15,000 jobs as part of its cost-cutting plan, and is in the process of laying off more than 1,000 employees, the Wall Street Journal and Dow Jones Newswires said on Tuesday....

A Citigroup spokesman declined to comment. Citigroup plans to unveil the restructuring plan Wednesday morning.

They include layoffs in the trading and prime brokerage units of Citigroup's investment banking division, the report said, citing people familiar with the matter.

Planned cuts are widespread, including the shuttering of some Smith Barney brokerage offices, the moving offshore of loan collection jobs in Arizona, Florida and Texas, and a possible loss of 10,000 or more U.S. jobs, the report said, without saying where the information came from. Many affected jobs will be in U.S. consumer operations, the report said.

The cuts follow a review of expenses by Chief Operating Officer Robert Druskin that began in December. Shareholders are pressuring Chief Executive Charles Prince to slash Citigroup's $52 billion operating expense base even as the bank grows, especially outside the United States.

Citigroup shares were up 71 cents to $52.29 in afternoon trading.

Link: Citigroup plans 15,000 "net" job cuts: report - Yahoo! News

**man with no head** · 11-04-2007, 07:07 PM

Layoff thousands while Chuck Prince takes nearly $100 million:

According to Jim Cramer from CNBC's Mad Money he should be included under the definition of executive overcompensation. He has taken approximately US$93 million in compensation from Citigroup while adding little value in return. He currently occupies the #1 position on Cramer's Wall of Shame.

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/PA...ewsItemId-3824

**William** · 11-04-2007, 11:41 PM

In short, it's called Globalization.

And guess what, it works two ways.

As someone who has experienced this, most outsource agents I use are as equally well qualified as those I previously used (at half the cost). The upside: I don't worry about whether or not you have 401k, etc. You do! The downside, fuck all loyalty - but hey, that's the ticket I sold.

**man with no head** · 12-04-2007, 03:24 AM

Is it a good idea to trust outsiders with people's financial information?

Would we want call centers in China having access to millions of Americans' most personal details?

Tech support is bad enough when it's done overseas. I think it should be illegal to outsource financial call centers outside the domain of one's own country.

If Citigroup wants to outsource to some outfit in Texas, CA, or Oregon that should be OK. But not India, China, The Philippines, etc.

**William** · 12-04-2007, 07:00 AM

^ha. As if offices of finance houses in NY and elsewhere in the US are any good at keeping financial info. What was the latest item I read - credit card etails of something like 29 million "lost"?

As far as the UK goes, nothing improper with outsourcing this sort of info. Obviously you want the employees to sign a confidentiality agreement.

Face it, outsourcing is a modern way of getting skilled labor cheap. That's it.

**man with no head** · 12-04-2007, 09:11 AM

But the difference is the jurisdiction of the law.

If an employee here loses data there is recourse. If it happens overseas there is not.

**William** · 12-04-2007, 09:25 AM

^why not? If I outsource, do you think I don't have a contract...?

**El Gibbon** · 12-04-2007, 10:40 AM

outsourcing ... I have been personally involved in both sides, mostly in production of electronic components.

This is a double edged sword. It is often mistaken for a quick remedy for labor costs. Without substantial investment on both sides of the equation it becomes an albatross very quickly.

Communication skills between the two cultures are a major hurdle. Even between partners that speak/write the same language there are major difficulties based around context, jargon etc. It can be successful with hard work, it can also be a disaster causing tremendous financial reprecussions for both parties.

Having been involved, mostly in production, I really don't see the advantage of 'service' applications depending on verbal communication being that much of a cost savings. Programming, strictly labor intesive hand work, and some other readily documented tasks work well with the correct preparation.

I sincerely doubt the savings being promoted by Citibank will ever reach the stated goals. It is nice PR for the stockholders but will incur hidden costs that are never detailed. For an example of these hidden costs, travel expenses are generally lumped into a single category and not tagged to a specific project. Travel expenses can be very high with outsourcing projects.

Granted, loan collection is made up of a lot of paperwork, letter after threatening letter and then having the debtor added to some 'bad debt' list. Actual collection very seldom involves personal contact until it ends up in court.

If I'm a debtor in Singapore or Japan and I get a dunning letter from Somchai whatever, what is the reaction going to be?

Many books written on the subject from both points of view. A complicated subject.

rgds

E. G.

**forreachingme** · 12-04-2007, 10:48 AM

I think Halliburton with all it's nice contracts in Irak and mid and far east is on the tax escape delocalisation / outsourcing list, to mention one more such company...

When only the money of a few counts !!

**man with no head** · 12-04-2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by William

^why not? If I outsource, do you think I don't have a contract...?

I'm talking about from the perspective of a consumer.

If I have a Citibank account and they are negligent in the United States with my data I can sue them in court. Do I still have the same rights if the data loss occurs in India instead? I wouldn't expect such.

Outsourcing cheap labor while providing obscene executive compensation is immoral and unethical if it undermines the rights of consumers.

**Wallace** · 12-04-2007, 10:17 AM

Agreed. Outsourcing is just another ridiculous justification for buying in cheap labour to reduce operating costs. Sometimes it's justified - for example, I used to work for a holiday company. Their main job - selling and organising holidays. They also happened to run a massive IT department. This was outsourced to IBM so the company could concentrate on the job of selling holidays. I don't see the problem with this type of outsourcing.

When it fails, is when companies outsource vital aspects, like customer service, to a company in India, where, though the staff may well be better off doing this than anything else, means that when you have a customer service issue, you don't actually get to talk to the company itself, just an outsourced department, not even in the same country as the service you're talking about. This is the worst kind of passing the buck and betrays a cynical attitude on the part of these companies to their own customers.

**William** · 12-04-2007, 10:22 AM

^whenever I call any service provider, I'm faced with a computer telling me to "dial 2 for English" etc. These days there's not such thing as a "service provider" per se.

Outsourcing is not the issue. De-skilled labor is. I don't know about the rest of Europe, but IME labor skills in the UK are being dumped down.

As the saying goes "you cannot get the staff these days"

**William** · 12-04-2007, 12:00 PM

^I wholly agree with you on the issue of executive pay

**El Gibbon** · 12-04-2007, 02:24 PM

Surasak, just because the info was "lost" in India does not exempt Citigroup from any lawsuit. The outsource resource is STILL a representative of the parent company.

Contracts on outsourcing generally address specifically, lost data, copyright infringement, unauthorized use and intellectual property rights. This is a normal part of any contract between a US based company and any partner.

The way they can get around it is to "sell" that business unit to a second party, but then they do lose control and not many are ready to do that. In even that case if Citigroup sends your info to a second party and they flock it up I bet your case against the originator (Citigroup) is as strong as otherwise.

Rgds
E. G.

**forreachingme** · 24-04-2007, 08:52 AM

Barclays Bank and ABN Amro joint for 76 Billion Euro wedding...

They already plan to cut off 20'000 jobs in Europe, and second step make the rest of employees more efficient and outsource labourt in cheaper countries...

It will be the second banking group in Europe

Just a few other crazy investement and golden chutes numbers :

Lagardere invested 120 Million Euro in EADS just a few years back , and at worst time of the company takes back 2 Billion Euro from this investment, 10'000 people got sacked.
The CEO receives a 8.5 Million Euro golden chute for his bad job ...

What a wonderfull world...

**Wallace** · 25-04-2007, 09:42 AM

It's incredibly sad, isn't it? When you listen to the chief execs you can visibly see them counting their bonuses whilst those 20,000 people look for another job. I mean, what exactly would 90 billion dollars do if it was invested in both companies instead of being spent on a merger? Imagine if both companies just stayed the same and gave 90 billion dollars to a worthwhile cause, like eradicating malaria in the ENTIRE WORLD. But that wouldn't help get those guys their new yachts and chateaux in the countryside, would it?

**mad_dog** · 26-04-2007, 05:45 PM

The free market in action. The British and Americans fought a 50 year war in the name of Capitalism but get very protective when people in their own countires are adversly affected by the free market. America and Europe are a joke; they preach neo-liberal economics and won't allow their front organisations like the IMF and WB to lend money to countries who refuse total free market reforms but thier own economies are the most subsidised in the world. Hypocrits!

**barbaro** · 26-04-2007, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by mad_dog

The free market in action. The British and Americnas fought a 50 year war in the name of Capitalism but very protective when people in their own countires are adversly affected the free market. America and Europe are a joke they preach neo-liberal economics and wont allow their front organisations like the IMF and WB to lend money to countries who refuse total free market reforms but thier own economies are the most subsidised in the world. Hypocrtis!

Yeah,

The whole concept of the Neo-Liberal "free trade" only applies to those that make and benefit from the rules.

It is truly, B.S.

**Black Heart** · 23-03-2016, 01:14 PM

United Technologies shuts down and moves jobs to Mexico.

This company enjoyed great tax breaks.

Why do some/many support Sanders and Trump?

This is one of the main reasons.

**BobR** · 24-03-2016, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Black Heart

United Technologies shuts down and moves jobs to Mexico.

This company enjoyed great tax breaks.

Why do some/many support Sanders and Trump?

This is one of the main reasons.

My ex Father in Law worked for Carrier Transitcold in Montebello, California. In the 1980's they moved their manufacturing out of California and into Indiana and Georgia since those states were less friendly to workers rights and unions, now they're taken it a step farther.

As I recall, he was offered a job in Georgia with a large pay cut.

**harrybarracuda** · 23-03-2016, 01:32 PM

Yes, but they don't ask why Trump outsources the manufacturing of his overpriced line of shit clothes to China and Mexico, because they're as thick as shit.

**Black Heart** · 23-03-2016, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Yes, but they don't ask why Trump outsources the manufacturing of his overpriced line of shit clothes to China and Mexico, because they're as thick as shit.

We do not know if the people in the video support Trump, or anyone else for that matter.

**harrybarracuda** · 23-03-2016, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Yes, but they don't ask why Trump outsources the manufacturing of his overpriced line of shit clothes to China and Mexico, because they're as thick as shit.

We do not know if the people in the video support Trump, or anyone else for that matter.

Excuse me you fucking idiot, do you have an attention span shorter than a forgetful mosquito with ADHD?

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Why do some/many support Sanders and Trump?

This is one of the main reasons.

**Black Heart** · 23-03-2016, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Yes, but they don't ask why Trump outsources the manufacturing of his overpriced line of shit clothes to China and Mexico, because they're as thick as shit.

We do not know if the people in the video support Trump, or anyone else for that matter.

Excuse me you fucking idiot, do you have an attention span shorter than a forgetful mosquito with ADHD?

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Why do some/many support Sanders and Trump?

This is one of the main reasons.

You stated "they."

I presumed yoymeant the people in the video.

My misinterpretation.

And, Trump have criticed outsourcing g and H1-Bs in contrast to HRC.

**harrybarracuda** · 23-03-2016, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Yes, but they don't ask why Trump outsources the manufacturing of his overpriced line of shit clothes to China and Mexico, because they're as thick as shit.

We do not know if the people in the video support Trump, or anyone else for that matter.

Excuse me you fucking idiot, do you have an attention span shorter than a forgetful mosquito with ADHD?

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Why do some/many support Sanders and Trump?

This is one of the main reasons.

You stated "they."

I presumed yoymeant the people in the video.

My misinterpretation.

And, Trump have criticed outsourcing g and H1-Bs in contrast to HRC.

Seriously, when was the last time you visited a neurologist?

Thread: Outsourcing

Thread Tools

Display

Hybrid View

Outsourcing

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions