Thread: 9/11 was an inside job

Originally Posted by koman

NOTE FROM THE EDITORS
This feature is somewhat different from our usual
purely scientific articles, in that it contains some
speculation. However, given the timing and the
importance of the issue, we consider that this
feature is sufficiently technical and interesting
to merit publication for our readers. Obviously,
the content of this article is the responsibility
of the authors.

It might be a scientific journal, but as noted above, they are quite willing to publish "speculation" and distance themselves from the opinions of the authors of the article.

Why bother with a demolition anyway? Is not 2 passenger jets smashing into the twin towers big enough on its own? it seems a lot of trouble to go to for what is ultimately just an extra dramatic effect.

The case put forward, despite the speculation, must be fairly convincing for a scientific journal to decide it warrants publishing.

Originally Posted by longway

Why bother with a demolition anyway? Is not 2 passenger jets smashing into the twin towers big enough on its own? it seems a lot of trouble to go to for what is ultimately just an extra dramatic effect.

The case put forward, despite the speculation, must be fairly convincing for a scientific journal to decide it warrants publishing.

2 Passenger jets coupled with the particular design and construction of the WTC towers.....apparently yes, it was enough....but then we have plenty of people who don't think any planes hit the buildings at all....

Fairly convincing? Yes it's a well presented case offering opinion and speculating about how the towers could have been "demolished" in a controlled way.

There are numerous equally convincing articles by highly qualified engineers/scientists explaining the why's and wherefores of the eventual collapse after the inferno of burning jet fuel weakened the structure, causing all the upper floors to collapse. The weight of all the upper floors coming down pancaked the whole building. There are engineers who have always disputed this but it's the most widely accepted and convincing version of events.

Face it, we will never get anything like consensus on this issue. The result did look like a controlled demolition, but the reasons for that have been explained at great length.

The journal actually states that it published this piece because it is "interesting"; with lots of "technical" stuff that offers an alternative to other technical explanations. We should always be open to opposing theories and opinion. The kind of disclaimer at the beginning of the article is there for good reason however.

Originally Posted by longway

Is not 2 passenger jets smashing into the twin towers big enough on its own?

No because the towers were designed/constructed to remain standing after such an incident.

Originally Posted by koman

NOTE FROM THE EDITORS
This feature is somewhat different from our usual
purely scientific articles, in that it contains some
speculation. However, given the timing and the
importance of the issue, we consider that this
feature is sufficiently technical and interesting
to merit publication for our readers. Obviously,
the content of this article is the responsibility
of the authors.

It might be a scientific journal, but as noted above, they are quite willing to publish "speculation" and distance themselves from the opinions of the authors of the article.

It is not a scientific journal. It is a magazine. The critical difference is the lack of peer review.

Might as well quote Marvel comics.

Originally Posted by koman

Originally Posted by longway

Why bother with a demolition anyway? Is not 2 passenger jets smashing into the twin towers big enough on its own? it seems a lot of trouble to go to for what is ultimately just an extra dramatic effect.

The case put forward, despite the speculation, must be fairly convincing for a scientific journal to decide it warrants publishing.

2 Passenger jets coupled with the particular design and construction of the WTC towers.....apparently yes, it was enough....but then we have plenty of people who don't think any planes hit the buildings at all....

Fairly convincing? Yes it's a well presented case offering opinion and speculating about how the towers could have been "demolished" in a controlled way.

There are numerous equally convincing articles by highly qualified engineers/scientists explaining the why's and wherefores of the eventual collapse after the inferno of burning jet fuel weakened the structure, causing all the upper floors to collapse. The weight of all the upper floors coming down pancaked the whole building. There are engineers who have always disputed this but it's the most widely accepted and convincing version of events.

Face it, we will never get anything like consensus on this issue. The result did look like a controlled demolition, but the reasons for that have been explained at great length.

The journal actually states that it published this piece because it is "interesting"; with lots of "technical" stuff that offers an alternative to other technical explanations. We should always be open to opposing theories and opinion. The kind of disclaimer at the beginning of the article is there for good reason however.

I've never bought into the controlled demolition hypothesis as the risk of being discovered far outweighs any gain in the dramatic effect of collapsing both towers to increae the spectacular nature of the event, but when I saw this article I thought it was significant; I guess it isnt that significant. Oh well.

However, I think that elements of the gwb administration knew a massive terrorist event was going to occur, perhaps they might not have known what it was going to be, though thats neither here nor there, but it was allowed to happen, so Iraq could be attacked.

It was all so convinient wasn't it? Just after the invasion of Afghanistan was complete, WMD were discovered in Iraq, and to me that was always their primary goal. Then years later it turns out Osama was living next to a Pakistani military base, and he was killed and his remains disposed of at sea.

I hope one day the truth about all of it will emerge.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by longway

Is not 2 passenger jets smashing into the twin towers big enough on its own?

No because the towers were designed/constructed to remain standing after such an incident.

I mean why bother with the demolition, what does that gain anyone, other than making look more spectacular?

Originally Posted by longway

I mean why bother with the demolition, what does that gain anyone, other than making look more spectacular?

As far as I know the towers and WTC 7 were past their best. All contained asbestos that couldn't be easily removed and the costing would be huge. Simple enough to stage a fake hijacking and use that cover to demolish the buildings with controlled explosions.

As of September 2009, the organization 9-11 Health Now reported that 817 World Trade Center workers had died from various causes. About 40,000 were enrolled in medical monitoring and 20,000 were "sick and under treatment." Many had upper respiratory issues, while some reported multiple medical concerns.

https://www.asbestos.com/world-trade-center/

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

As far as I know the towers and WTC 7 were past their best. All contained asbestos that couldn't be easily removed and the costing would be huge. Simple enough to stage a fake hijacking and use that cover to demolish the buildings with controlled explosions.

So you believe that the owner managed to persuade a bunch of guys to hijack 4 passenger jets, commit suicide by flying two of them into the WTC towers, while sending two more off on a mission to distract attention..... and killing over three thousand people.......just to get rid of some asbestos?

Kind of a risky adventure just to launch an insurance claim don't ya think? I mean the risks of something going wrong, or somebody breaking ranks, and the whole plot being exposed would very likely be about 99% certain

.....and if those buildings were past their best in just over 30 years... it's hard to imaging what the rest of NYC must be like.

All the highly skilled people needed to set all those demolition charges, organize the hijackings, and build the cover story.....and nobody said a word about any of it....somehow the notion that all this would be "simple enough" would seem to stretch the definition of simple rather a lot....

Still, open minds are always willing to listen to new and original ideas......

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I believe there was no hijacking. And Silverstein is the man with all the answers.

OK, so is this just some kind of "blind faith" belief, (along the lines of the Prophet ascending to heaven on a winged horse) or it it based on some kind of reason, logic, or evidence? The whole 9/11 argument seems a bit like the creationist versus evolution discussions at times......

The Towers’ buried treasure.

By Geoffrey Gray Published Aug 27, 2011

Earlier in the morning, before the attack, an armored truck had made its way through an underground tunnel below the World Trade Center. Inside the truck was millions of dollars’ worth of bullion. Through a maze of underground tunnels, the truck had just left a vault in which Comex, the commodities exchange, kept thousands of gold [G2] and silver bars stacked on pallets, a warehouse of megariches beneath the city surface.

G2: Ingot Inflation
Value of a gold bar on September 10, 2001:
$214,392.24

Value of a gold bar on August 22, 2011:
$1,498,859.48

Source: Kitco.com

The armored truck and the bullion inside were found in the first couple of days of the recovery effort, crushed along with other cars in the subbasement by falling steel; the driver had evidently escaped before the collapse. People thought the gold in the vault might be accessible to looters. But it turned out that the most difficult problem was bringing in electricity to rewire the vault doors. Soon, under the watch of dozens of armed guards, thousands of bars of gold and silver were hauled out of the bi-level 6,000-square-foot vault. All told, there were 379,036 ounces of gold, stacked in 30-pound ingots. There was much more silver, in bars as big as bread loaves, weighing 70 pounds per loaf. Eventually, workers hauled out all 29,942,619 ounces.

All the precious metal under the Towers was accounted for. At one point, as workers were hauling out the treasure, they broke for lunch. There were no tables or chairs. Instead, they ate their meals on stacks of gold bars.

Gold Buried Under the World Trade Center - 9/11 Encyclopedia - September 11 10th Anniversary – NYMag

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

That already occurred post-9/11 because of a bunch of Saudis.

So we've been told...by the official narrative, which was established on 9/11/2001, while the smoke and dust were still rising into the air and prior to any real forensics investigation. How the 9/11 narrative was sold to the public... early on the day of occurence(Harley guy and Jerome Hauer know how and who very quickly):



But then Dick Cheney sez:



Maybe there was another mastermind that isn't Saudi...






And what about that 2.3 Trillion $$(probably more like 3 Trillion +) ...was that the financing for the 9/11 debacle?



These are some of things that have caused me to have a problem with the whole 9/11 story from the very beginning. Look what it has lead to. Maybe we're not winning 'the war on terror' because we're fighting the wrong enemy. Go ahead and call me a tin-foil hat nutter, I don't care.

Mod(s)If you don't like this here, move it to the 9/11 thread...

Sweet Baby Jesus. I can't even.

Don't. Just... don't.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Don't. Just... don't.

Why? Question nothing the 'authorities' tell you?

Originally Posted by SKkin

Why? Question nothing the 'authorities' tell you?

No, believe that you're possessed of special insight and knowledge that the rest of the sheeple aren't in order to try to make sense of a scary world where mankind inflicts all kinds of horror and depravity on itself and sometimes bad shit happens just because...

If it makes you feel better.

I'm glad to see the thread's been bumped.

^Yeah I was hangin out for that bump

Time for TD CSI to regroup.

Get out your barf buckets and don your neural protection....ENT will be along shortly.

This was another factor in forming my opinion on 9/11...early on...long before Loose Change and 9/11 'Truthers'. When I read this interview in late September 2001, I was reading something that sounded more truthful to me than anything the establishment and its media mouthpieces(of my own country, USA) had been feeding me up to that point. Especially in this part I will excerpt(this is not from the source where I originally read it almost 16 years ago now):

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia? Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti-Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims.

The U.S. has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates. However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of the United States, or the U.S. itself considers them as its enemies.

The countries which do not agree to become the U.S. slaves are China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria [Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia] and Russia. Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American-Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.

Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union [ended? SKkin] but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.

~ Osama bin Laden, Ummat Interview Septemer 28, 2001

I'm certainly no fan of his religion, or of any of the Abrahamic religions for that matter, but his words in that interview rang true for me.

I obsessed over the 9/11 subject for years and when I get pulled back into it makes me mentally, physically and spiritually tired...and sick(more than I already am). Thinking about the primrose path we were lead on to and where its ended in today's world, it disgusts me what's been done in our name and all IMHO based on lies.

I'm not here(on this thread) to argue about it or make any further case. I'll carry my opinion on this subject to my grave...or my urn.

I'm done with it.

It's very unlikely but i'd love to see the day Bush and Blair are in the dock in The Hague facing charges of starting a war on false pretenses.
9/11 would be a further charge.

Originally Posted by SKkin

Go ahead and call me a tin-foil hat nutter,

Not at all. You have put forward a lot of compelling information.
There is a lot, but people will bury their head in the sand. It's all too horrifying to admit to.
I've been questioning the whole official version ever since the official version came out.
I remember waking up that morning and turning on the TV to the news. I should have been getting ready for work, but stayed glued to the TV. One thing struck me very early on: A Saudi passport was found in the rubble, even before the dust had settled! WTF!
Later, that tidbit of information became even more astounding, upon refelection: how did a paper document survive a conflagration so intense that it (apparently) melted the support beams and why was a passport carried on a domestic flight....that was my first "WTF" moment on that day and the next.