Maybe the worst sitting President ever....

**man with no head** · 23-01-2007, 06:18 PM

Perhaps Jimmy Carter can breathe a sigh of relief in that someone worse than him has come along.

Some highlights:

-Nearly two-thirds of Americans appear to have given up on success in Iraq and also on his presidency.
-Two-thirds believe he shouldn’t move ahead with his troop increase to Iraq.
-Only two in 10 want Bush taking the lead role in setting policy for the country.

“The public really says, ‘I just think it’s over,’” Hart says of Bush’s presidency. “If we had a British parliamentary system, there would be a call for a vote of no confidence. Essentially what the poll is, is a vote of no confidence.”

Maybe if we had a Parliamentary system Bush would be out the door right now.

NBC/WSJ poll: Most have given up on Iraq - Politics - MSNBC.com

**JoGeAr** · 23-01-2007, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by surasak

-Nearly two-thirds of Americans appear to have given up on success in Iraq and also on his presidency.
-Two-thirds believe he shouldn’t move ahead with his troop increase to Iraq.
-Only two in 10 want Bush taking the lead role in setting policy for the country.

But why did it take so bloody long to work it out?

**stroller** · 23-01-2007, 06:29 PM

Just curious, how can you dispose of a pres in the US, there is 'impeachment', but what are the conditions or alternatives?

**man with no head** · 23-01-2007, 06:34 PM

Impeachment is for offences conducted while in office (basically conviction and trial for offences which in themselves aren't necessarily criminal....things like gross negligence, failure to uphold the office of the President, etc). At this point it's bloody unlikely impeachment would remove him prior to January 20, 2009.

Impeachment requires charges to be brought and voted upon by the House of Representatives and then a trial would be held by the Senate. Conviction by the Senate would result in removal from office.

**man with no head** · 23-01-2007, 06:37 PM

Oh, and impeachment is nothing more than removal from office. Subsequent criminal prosecution would then take place once the President was removed.

2/3 of the Senate must vote to convict.

**lom** · 23-01-2007, 06:45 PM

Let him sit and get more swetty.
I want to see even more Americans not supporting him, I want the crook being remembered for long long time.

**JoGeAr** · 23-01-2007, 06:48 PM

I say get him out before he does any more damage.

**lom** · 23-01-2007, 06:53 PM

Isn't he already a lame duck ?

**friscofrankie** · 23-01-2007, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by surasak

-Nearly two-thirds of Americans appear to have given up on success in Iraq and also on his presidency. -Two-thirds believe he shouldn’t move ahead with his troop increase to Iraq. -Only two in 10 want Bush taking the lead role in setting policy for the country.

Good news, the citizens finally starting to wake up. What took 'em so fuckin' long? Now what?

**man with no head** · 23-01-2007, 07:13 PM

The choices right now from the Ds are Billary, an ambulance chaser, and a Muslim.

Edwards is too young. Billary? God help us if the past quarter century we've had Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. Obama? Never going to get elected.

What about the Rs? Is that silence I hear?

Man, how did the political parties in the U.S. get so screwed up?

**raycarey** · 23-01-2007, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by surasak

The choices right now from the Ds are Billary, an ambulance chaser, and a Muslim.

Edwards is too young. Billary? God help us if the past quarter century we've had Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. Obama? Never going to get elected.

What about the Rs? Is that silence I hear?

Man, how did the political parties in the U.S. get so screwed up?

edwards isn't too young, and he's spent the last few years courting labor, so don't count him out.

hillary has the money and name recognition, but approx. half of the country hates her. if anyone is too risky to put up in a general election, it's her.

obama is (gasp!) black and muslim, but 48 years ago people were claiming that a catholic would never be elected.

and don't forget al gore....his campaign theme could be 'let's get america back on track'. granted the US was a mess in the 90s too, but nothing like it is now.

as far as the repugs are concerned, their internal problems will ruin them in '08. guiliani and mccain will never get the nomination because the religious nuts that have the party by the balls won't support them, and the religious nut candidates like brownback and romney are......well...religious nuts, and therefore unelectable in '08.

and finally, in jan 75 nobody knew who jimmy carter was, and the same could be said for jan 91 with clinton.....there could be someone back in the pack like dodd (teamed with hagel?) or richardson who pushes their way to the front.

**stroller** · 23-01-2007, 07:40 PM

Another choice:

**Butterfly** · 23-01-2007, 07:43 PM

More good news this morning

Originally Posted by WSJ

SEN. JOHN WARNER, the top Armed Services panel Republican, broke ranks with Bush ahead of the president's State of the Union speech, saying more U.S. troops should not be put between warring Sunnis and Shiites. 6:57 a.m.

Let's make sure he doesn't leave office before his term is due so he can be humiliated and asskicked by everybody, including his strongest supporters.

At some point, Cheney might consider stepping in to stop the bloodbath.

**friscofrankie** · 23-01-2007, 08:13 PM

The future is looks almost as grim as the past. Bailing out of Iraq? How? When? repairing all the damage done to the constitution? could take a long long time. rebuilding foreign policy? Will the American people start pushing for a return to normalcy or do they just want GWB gone?

The US has had some shitty choices for CEO over the past few elections some have risen to the office while others have debased it. What will hillary do for us? can she get elected? Getting a woman in may be easier than a black muslim but.. If elected is she up to the task? coming out of the past 6 years our choices are way too limited.

**barbaro** · 23-01-2007, 09:10 PM

^^ Agree, FF.

Are choices are too limited.

Corporations and....coporations.

Well I'm sticking my neck out right now: Hillary will be the nominee.

As for W. Bush: I hope he has a miserable 24 months left in office.

I don't see things looking up for him in any way.

There will be more intense fighting in Iraq in the Spring when the insurgents adapt to new American tactics.

This troop surge will also be the 4th troop surge of the Iraq war.

The first three didn't work. Most people know this in Washington.

**mad_dog** · 23-01-2007, 09:27 PM

Look the rest of the world told the US that GWB was a fucking moron six odd years ago when the supreme court picked his name out of a hat. It's just a shame hundreds of thousands of people have died becuase the American voting public are so stupid.

No lessons will be learnt from this either: Top of the list is the New York Jew's First Lady Hellory ... followed by someone who likens himself to Ronald "i watch movies to decide foregin policy" Reagan and that Mc Cain oven chip twat who starts blubbing and crying at stump speaches about the depths of his partiotism ..... And whoever the sepos elect next it is fucking certain the "we're the 51st State" special realtionship will continue to make British people look like ignorant scum ... FUCK England and FUCK AMERICA...

**Butterfly** · 23-01-2007, 10:37 PM

I think change will come if the Clintons make it back, which would be the sensible things to do at this stage. Forget about personalities, it's about skills and experience which the Clintons both have. We know now how disastrous it is to focus on character. GW Bush whole campaign was based on the cult of personality and charisma of a failed businessman. The American public thought they would get a prince out of a frog, and all they got was a drunken frat boy.

**raycarey** · 23-01-2007, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Milkman

Hillary will be the nominee.

21 months before election day.

bold.

Originally Posted by Milkman

I hope he has a miserable 24 months left in office.

guaranteed.

Originally Posted by mad_dog

No lessons will be learnt from this either

i disagree. for how long i'm not sure, but i'm hoping this will be the last major american foreign policy disaster of my lifetime. granted this one is going to last another 5 - 10 years but.... hey, i'm looking for something postive wherever i can find it.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I think change will come if the Clintons make it back

the world needs bill, but not hillary. if she won, she'd probably name him sec. of state or UN ambassador.....what would stop any of the other candidates from doing the same? except gore of course.
bill clinton is an egomaniacal policy wonk who will be involved in setting the agenda and debating policy no matter who the dem president is. except gore of course.

**Little Chuchok** · 23-01-2007, 11:29 PM

Maybe they should watch Robert McNamara.."The Fog of war" and what not to do.

**man with no head** · 24-01-2007, 12:05 AM

Now President 'Mission Accomplished' is telling Iran to back down.

U.S. warns Iran to back down - Yahoo! News

Wait, are those Iranian or U.S. carriers in the Gulf? Does the U.S. border the Persian Gulf? Who really is the aggressor here?

Another Gulf of Tonkin incident (a.k.a. 'Win one for the GOP in 2008') is in the making.

**lom** · 24-01-2007, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by raycarey

i disagree. for how long i'm not sure, but i'm hoping this will be the last major american foreign policy disaster of my lifetime. granted this one is going to last another 5 - 10 years but.... hey, i'm looking for something postive wherever i can find it.

Exactemento.
Bush should stay his last 24 month as president and make the disaster even worser. Some lessons can only be learned if they are very expensive.
Sometimes you must sink down to the very bottom before getting to a turning point.
And the more it hurts, the longer it will take until same mistake is done again.

**stroller** · 24-01-2007, 10:08 AM

B...but Saddam attacked the US on 9/11 and was on the brinck of launching his nucelar WMDs, how can the Iraq invasion be seen as anything negative? It's the fault of the commie traitors and liberal media that Bush hasn't succeeded!

I am afraid they'll learn NOTHING!

**Mr Earl** · 26-01-2007, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by stroller

B...but Saddam attacked the US on 9/11 and was on the brinck of launching his nucelar WMDs, how can the Iraq invasion be seen as anything negative? It's the fault of the commie traitors and liberal media that Bush hasn't succeeded!

I am afraid they'll learn NOTHING!

Your failure to acknowledge the threat of islamic extremism colors your entire perspective.
The brutal and painful facts that islamic extremism exists and threatens everyone are pretty evident. You have to be drunk, stoned, stupid, or painfully obtuse not to see the evidence which manifests itself every day.

The media lost the Vietnam war, things have changed since then. So don't go counting your chickens

just yet!

**Boon Mee** · 26-01-2007, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by stroller

B...but Saddam attacked the US on 9/11 and was on the brinck of launching his nucelar WMDs, how can the Iraq invasion be seen as anything negative? It's the fault of the commie traitors and liberal media that Bush hasn't succeeded!

I am afraid they'll learn NOTHING!

Your failure to acknowledge the threat of islamic extremism colors your entire perspective.
The brutal and painful facts that islamic extremism exists and threatens everyone are pretty evident. You have to be drunk, stoned, stupid, or painfully obtuse not to see the evidence which manifests itself every day.

The media lost the Vietnam war, things have changed since then. So don't go counting your chickens

just yet!

Mr. Earl is the most articulate poster on this here forum.
Excellent post, sir!

**GooMaiRoo** · 26-01-2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by stroller

B...but Saddam attacked the US on 9/11 and was on the brinck of launching his nucelar WMDs, how can the Iraq invasion be seen as anything negative? It's the fault of the commie traitors and liberal media that Bush hasn't succeeded!

I am afraid they'll learn NOTHING!

Your failure to acknowledge the threat of islamic extremism colors your entire perspective.
The brutal and painful facts that islamic extremism exists and threatens everyone are pretty evident. You have to be drunk, stoned, stupid, or painfully obtuse not to see the evidence which manifests itself every day.

The media lost the Vietnam war, things have changed since then. So don't go counting your chickens

just yet!

Mr. Earl is the most articulate poster on this here forum.
Excellent post, sir!

I have to agree that Mr. Earl is clever and articulate. However, many of his "brutal and painful facts" are not facts at all. The book "Dying To Win: The Logic Of Suicide Terrorism" studies the psyches of all suicide terrorists with knowable histories (over 400 of them). The conclusion: they are actually not very religious at all, in fact they're fairly Westernised. Though Middle Easterners, their common thread is not religious fanaticism, it is a feeling that Western countries (and India) are stepping on their turf. It's a scholarly study whose results even surprised it's author, Robert Pape. Bush supporters can be a clever but denial-ridden bunch.

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