Evolution vs Bible

**kingwilly** · 08-10-2006, 07:14 PM

their (female hyena's) female genitalia is evolved to facilitate it.

MrK, just as a matter of interest, what is your position on evolution ?

As a scientist I understand that organisms on this planet have evolved and continue to do so, there is plenty of evidence for this.

As a religious person I have no problem understanding that the book of Genesis is humankinds attempt to explain the beginning of the world before our understanding of science became more sophistcated. A creation myth, if you will. Something that my Church also now supports.

I have no problem with the two ideas co-existing.

I remember a converstation I once had with a g/f's father who was IMO a bible bashing preacher. (he quite his church and did his own bible studies coupled with frequent watchign of Kenneth Copeland prayer studies on TV

I asked him about this... he takes every word in the bible literally, his reply was evolution did not exist and that the entire sceince of Paleontology is flawed because...

Dinosaur bones were not evidence of previous life forms but put into the ground by the devil to confuse humankind into beleiving the Bible was wrong.

How can anyone reasonably argue with that sort of logic? We amicably agreed to disagree.

**Butterfly** · 08-10-2006, 07:16 PM

oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!

**kingwilly** · 08-10-2006, 07:25 PM

just interested in his reply....

BTW you welcome to offer your opinion also.

**Stocky** · 08-10-2006, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

Dinosaur bones were not evidence of previous life forms but put into the ground by the devil to confuse humankind into beleiving the Bible was wrong.

I'm a geologist so I'm with the Devil!

**kingwilly** · 08-10-2006, 09:14 PM

yah - me too!

where did u study?

I did my degree in Melbourne Univeristry and thus had the privelege of being a student of Professor Ian Plimer.. who has received no less than 8 serious death threats and attempted kneecappings from those lovely law abiding Christian folks from the scientology group

he's written several books, my favourite is "telling lies for God"

great stuff....

**RandomChances** · 08-10-2006, 09:26 PM

Is this one of those split threads that no one could be arsed to mention?

**kingwilly** · 08-10-2006, 09:44 PM

^ no i started this based on another quote in another thread about a slightly different topic. i didnt want it to get lost in the hyperbole

besides i might hit a century with this one! Fck off Nooners!

**Stocky** · 08-10-2006, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

yah - me too!

where did u study?

I did my degree in Melbourne Univeristry and thus had the privelege of being a student of Professor Ian Plimer.. who has received no less than 8 serious death threats and attempted kneecappings from those lovely law abiding Christian folks from the scientology group

he's written several books, my favourite is "telling lies for God"

great stuff....

Whoaa, that's a surprise, I've not met another geo on a forum before.
London, Kingston when it was still a polytechnic.
Over 25 years in gold exploration, with a little tungsten and diamonds thrown in.
Presently consulting on gold projects in Siberia, Russia Federation.

**kingwilly** · 08-10-2006, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Stocky

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

yah - me too!

where did u study?

I did my degree in Melbourne Univeristry and thus had the privelege of being a student of Professor Ian Plimer.. who has received no less than 8 serious death threats and attempted kneecappings from those lovely law abiding Christian folks from the scientology group

he's written several books, my favourite is "telling lies for God"

great stuff....

Whoaa, that's a surprise, I've not met another geo on a forum before.
London, Kingston when it was still a polytechnic.
Over 25 years in gold exploration, with a little tungsten and diamonds thrown in.
Presently consulting on gold projects in Siberia, Russia Federation.

jing jing

but i a science teacher instead... cos i enjoy it!

i almost became a geological engineer instead.....

but the math compent fckedc me

**ceburat** · 08-10-2006, 10:00 PM

As a scientist I understand that organisms on this planet have evolved and continue to do so, there is plenty of evidence for this.

As a religious person I have no problem understanding that the book of Genesis is humankinds attempt to explain the beginning of the world before our understanding of science became more sophistcated. A creation myth, if you will. Something that my Church also now supports.

I have no problem with the two ideas co-existing.

Is it not possible that scientific evidence is simply the proof of what God caused or let happen?

**kingwilly** · 08-10-2006, 10:08 PM

i wouldnt say proof...

but i would say that the Bible and other srcipture is humankings attemot to exaplin science.......

**BillyZ** · 08-10-2006, 10:09 PM

I recently read A Short History About Nearly Everything and towards the end, he talks a lot about dinosaur bones. Somewhere in the middle, he's talking about evolution.

Anyway, I'm an evolutionist. But there were some parts in the book that made me think, "How can this all be?"

The part that really made me think was, in the womb, how do the cells that split up from one and then turn into a human being know where they're supposed to go? How does one know that it will be a heart cell while the other one knows that it's gotta be a scrotum cell?

If you believe in evolution (and science), then you can only trust that the DNA is coded in that first cell, that's it's so exact and precise as to not have any imperfections to screw the whole process of a baby being formed. An analogy would be traveling 10,000 (or 10 billion) miles and being off a fraction of a degree from the start. You'd never make your destination.

I can see why creationists are so adamant that they are right. I mean, the formation of a human is something so amazing that you can't put into words. But the knee cap breakers must fear that the scientists and evolutionists might be right. Their only supporting evidence is a man-made book, the same awe for the formation of a baby and a lot of hype. They certainly don't have the compassion for others who have a different view on life that Jesus, whom they 'serve', reportedly did.

But I find that I have to go with proof. A few months ago, I posted a thread asking that if the two camps went to court, who would win?

For me, the proof is cells that you can see under a microscope. That's bones from many, many years ago that show change. That's theories (Darwin) that match evidence that's been found, and that same evidence. If I were the judge in this court case, I would have to go with that over a book and "You gotta believe me, Your Honor. Just read it in the book for yourself...."

When you look at the picture of the progression of the monkey turning into homo sapien, it's hard to argue with evolution. Maybe a higher power started it all. Who knows? I'm not saying that it's not true. But I wouldn't call that higher power 'God'. Not until he makes his World Tour and I can buy the shirt.

**Bung** · 08-10-2006, 10:28 PM

I would love to hear how some of the chritian fanatics disprove evolution. I mean there is scientific proof of it! It is proven that we are desendant from apes. Where is the scientific proof that God created man? A book? A story?

**Begbie** · 08-10-2006, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Stocky

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

yah - me too!

where did u study?

I did my degree in Melbourne Univeristry and thus had the privelege of being a student of Professor Ian Plimer.. who has received no less than 8 serious death threats and attempted kneecappings from those lovely law abiding Christian folks from the scientology group

he's written several books, my favourite is "telling lies for God"

great stuff....

Whoaa, that's a surprise, I've not met another geo on a forum before.
London, Kingston when it was still a polytechnic.
Over 25 years in gold exploration, with a little tungsten and diamonds thrown in.
Presently consulting on gold projects in Siberia, Russia Federation.

Odd you must have been in the same class as a friend of mine. Small world.

**Stocky** · 08-10-2006, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Begbie

Originally Posted by Stocky

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

yah - me too!

where did u study?

I did my degree in Melbourne Univeristry and thus had the privelege of being a student of Professor Ian Plimer.. who has received no less than 8 serious death threats and attempted kneecappings from those lovely law abiding Christian folks from the scientology group

he's written several books, my favourite is "telling lies for God"

great stuff....

Whoaa, that's a surprise, I've not met another geo on a forum before.
London, Kingston when it was still a polytechnic.
Over 25 years in gold exploration, with a little tungsten and diamonds thrown in.
Presently consulting on gold projects in Siberia, Russia Federation.

Odd you must have been in the same class as a friend of mine. Small world.

1976-79?

**ceburat** · 08-10-2006, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Bung

I would love to hear how some of the chritian fanatics disprove evolution. I mean there is scientific proof of it! It is proven that we are desendant from apes. Where is the scientific proof that God created man? A book? A story?

What scientific proof is there of evolution?

**Bung** · 08-10-2006, 10:59 PM

Neanderathal man.

What became of them?

They are now washing their cars on Sunday and going to church.

**keda** · 08-10-2006, 11:00 PM

The problem with each of the holy texts that rely on miracle, is that people tend to take them literally. Once this happens, they have no choice but to fall back on the absurd, or the ever present bolthole of blind faith.

When I once asked a respected religious figure about the scientifically provable age of planet Earth to the nearest billion or so years, he offered me a figure in the region of some 6000 years, though we may be confused, he added, because God had another universe up and running long before this one, but destroyed it because of Man's evil...leaving behind remnants, such as heavenly bodies, fossils, oil and other time-produced minerals, and other traces that tend to confuse the uninitiated.

**Bung** · 08-10-2006, 11:23 PM

Science has done more for the development of Western civilization in one hundred years than Christianity did in eighteen hundred years.

**kingwilly** · 09-10-2006, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by ceburat

Is it not possible that scientific evidence is simply the proof of what God caused or let happen?

agreed.

**kingwilly** · 09-10-2006, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by BillyZ

Anyway, I'm an evolutionist. But there were some parts in the book that made me think, "How can this all be?"

I can see why creationists are so adamant that they are right.

That's theories (Darwin) that match evidence that's been found, and that same evidence.

lets be clear about something... I do not believe in the evolutionist vs creationist debate.

The scientologists would have you believe that evolution is a theory and that scientists are divided about opinion on this matter....

THIS IS NOT TRUE AND THERE IS NO DEBATE AMOUNG SERIOUS SCIENTISTS!

Darwin did not propose the so called theory of evolution! His work was about the mechanism of evoltution! Or natural selection. His work was not controversial. His mistake was to include a small section in his book that suggested Homo sapiens were descended from a common ancestor to the apes and monkeys - this is what upset everybody!

But I find that I have to go with proof. A few months ago, I posted a thread asking that if the two camps went to court, who would win?

They already did! (i'll provide the source of this later when I find it again, as I've just moved many of my texts and files are still packed away)

The Supreme court of America (i think it was this court) a number of years ago oversaw the case of something like Scientologists vs the rest of the sane world. Some of the witnesses included well respected scientists in all fields, major leaders from the worlds major religions (ie Catholics, Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc)

Their findings......

Scientology (now remodeled as Natural Design but really we are talking about the Christian fundamentalists, or Bible literalists) was

NEITHER A REAL RELIGION AND WAS ALSO NOT A REAL SCIENCE!

**kingwilly** · 09-10-2006, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Begbie

Odd you must have been in the same class as a friend of mine. Small world.

who knows? possible.

Originally Posted by Stocky

1976-79?

You flatter me, I'm not quite that old, in fact I had not even discovered girls yet in the 70's.

**kingwilly** · 09-10-2006, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by ceburat

Originally Posted by Bung

I would love to hear how some of the chritian fanatics disprove evolution. I mean there is scientific proof of it! It is proven that we are desendant from apes. Where is the scientific proof that God created man? A book? A story?

What scientific proof is there of evolution?

Evolution is considered to be fact. The mechanics of evoltution is the theories still being developed. We can observe it now.

eg1: Bacterial deveoplment of resistance to antibotics.

eg2: Horses on Fraser Island have developed a hoof that has is more adapted to a soft sandy surface and now cannot be moved back to the mainland to walk on hard ground anymore.

eg3: Pepper Moth in England changed from a cream coloured camoflage to a black colour as a response to the changes in their environment caused by the Industrial evolution.

**kingwilly** · 09-10-2006, 04:49 AM

Lets us consider the Great Flood story in context.

Where was the birth of Christianty and the Flood story born? In the area of modern day ME.

The whole world was flooded?

What was their whole world? Had these people discovered the Americas? Australia ?

NO. Their world was limited to a small area around the Mediterrain Sea.

Archeological evidence shows an that this area was once dry land and the straights of Gibraltar held back the ocean. This same evidence shows that at some stage a few thousands of years ago, the ocean flooded in, much as a dam breaking would cause catestrophic floods.

I think most of us can then understand that a great flood did happen, this great flood would have inundated their whole known world for a period of time. Stories about this flood would have been passed down the generations of people. These stories became the Great Flood story.

**Stocky** · 09-10-2006, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

Originally Posted by Begbie

Odd you must have been in the same class as a friend of mine. Small world.

who knows? possible.

Originally Posted by Stocky

1976-79?

You flatter me, I'm not quite that old, in fact I had not even discovered girls yet in the 70's.

Was Begbie talking to you or me? I thought it was me, hence the dates I was at Kingston, I'd already assumed you were probably still at your mother's tit

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