Thread: Switching from rubber to fruit trees

My wife and I almost finished building our house not far from Chiang Saen. Behind the house down the hill my wife owns some land with rubber trees. The trees are about 10 years old and nobody is taping them.
We both know nothing about rubber trees and don't intend to become rubber farmers.
Since we soon will have more time we are thinking about cutting a few of them, maybe 3-4 rows, about 100 trees max. We intend to plant different fruit trees instead, mostly Jackfruit and Durian. We both are absolutely newbies and have just started to do some research.
I discovered this forum and thought I seek some advice here..
After looking around a bit we found one company who would cut our trees and pay 30 Baht per tree. Seems not much to me but we don't have any costs and get some Baht+free space to plant some fruit trees. They will only cut the trees and leave the stumps and the roots in the earth.
We were thinking to plant the fruit trees between the rubber tree stumps.
Anyone has some experience on this? The rotting rubber tree roots should enrich the soil over time, similar to a hugelculture bed, or am I wrong? Or is the price of 30 Baht per tree + free cutting too low? Is it even possible to sucesfully grow fruit trees in a manner like that?
Any advice on this subject and in growing Durian and Jackfruit in particular are greatly appreciated.
Please excuse my grammar, English is not my 1st language.

I'm no expert, just an observer, but you may as well leave the rubber trees to grow to full height before felling them rather than grow Durian. Durian trees need plenty of water and if you ain't got that then you're just pissing into the wind. KHAOMAHACHAI PARAWOOD CO.,LTD. Rubberwood - timber from the rubber tree - Green Living Tips

Originally Posted by ifonly

After looking around a bit we found one company who would cut our trees and pay 30 Baht per tree. Seems not much to me but we don't have any costs and get some Baht+free space to plant some fruit trees. They will only cut the trees and leave the stumps and the roots in the earth.

Ifonly, welcome to Teakdoor.

Regards the rubber trees i think they are taking the piss, especially leaving the stumps and what are their plans for all the branches. Rubber tree wood is quite nice as a medium timber. You could pay someone with a chain saw to come along and take them down, burn the branches and trim the logs and you could store them to season and perhaps use them in a few years, It seem a hell of waste for a few Baht - but its your choice.

Two members here i know of Thaiguzzi and Jamecollister are both rubber farmers and may be able to give you more of a steer on taking the trees out (and what you can do with them inc costs) vs tapping them.

Regards fruit trees i don't think there's many here who are fruit plantation owners just interested gardeners.

My advice would be if you want to take this forward than take time to travel around and see what crops are grown in the area, I am a bit forward so if it was me i'd just drive up with your lady to a farm and politely enquire if they would mind if you asked than for some advice.

Durian is fussy. Many fruit crops can be fussy regards soil type, local climate and altitude. Remember most fruit crops but once a year so that's it one lump of income and that's weather and market price dependent.

Anyway don't take it negatively if you don't get much advice and good luck.

James McCollister be a good guy to ask.

If you do Durian, they take around 4/5 years to bear fruit.

^ they don't like getting their feet wet. I have unsuccessfully tried to grow some for 10 years despite Mrs Toots family having Durian farms - i have officially given up.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I'm no expert, just an observer, but you may as well leave the rubber trees to grow to full height before felling them rather than grow Durian. Durian trees need plenty of water and if you ain't got that then you're just pissing into the wind.

That's correct. The rubberwood is a staple wood for Thai furniture and kitchenware industries, there is not much other species in Thailand for this commercial purpose (beside the teak and some other hardwoods, however, that's another league...)

Your forest originates obviously from a former govt action some 10 years ago supporting rubberwood planting in the North what however is not so productive like the huge ones in the South.

Nevertheless, you should heed the advice as above, keep your nerves, awaiting the further growths - it needs almost zero maintenance - that's what the Thai like the most. And perhaps, you (actually the wife) can look around, there are surely some in the area who do the rubber tapping, and make some agreement with them...

With ca. 20 years old rubberwood you could get something like this:

Thank you for your input so far, very helpful! I guess we look around for a company who pays a bit more for the trees or maybe just cut a few to have space for a pig stall and maybe 2 dozend fruit trees.

Originally Posted by ifonly

I guess we look around for a company who pays a bit more for the trees or maybe just cut a few to have space for a pig stall and maybe 2 dozend fruit trees.

How long you lived in Thailand for and what's your experience in keeping pigs? Here it's totally different to farming in farang countries. I doubt very much you'd get a return on your money. I can honestly say I've never met a farang who's been successful at farming here. When I came 15 years ago I was asked 'are you any good at farming' by a farang. I didn't understand why he asked me that but I did later. Farming is basically all the work you can do out here even though it's illegal. But it seems that all farangs get pushed into it by their teeraks. Disaster is always the end result.

I never took up farming and only bought the land we live on. I find plenty to do around the house and garden and seldom do I get bored. I dunno how old you are but if you are adequately financed from a pension etc I'd just sit back and enjoy your remaining years tinkering about.

I personally don't want any pigs, it is my wife who want 2 or 3. I made it clear that I will not take care of them ( as long as they are not on my plate ). She accepts that.

Originally Posted by ifonly

We both are absolutely newbies and have just started to do some research.

If newbies at farming, suggest you consider some other use for the land.
How much land is there?

Well, if you are a newbie and not trying you stay a newbie forever... We are both mid aged, 37 and 43 and still have many years to learn. We don't intend to start on a big scale. Just a couple Durian and Jackfruit and some others we have not decided yet.

Originally Posted by Norton

If newbies at farming, suggest you consider some other use for the land.
How much land is there?

If the land is considerable, I might opt towards a lesser saturated ag/horticultural product[s] that a more profitable market might bear.

The price of fruit is largely based on how difficult it is to grow.

So if I were you I'd forget about Durian.

Originally Posted by cyrille

The price of fruit is largely based on how difficult it is to grow.

So if I were you I'd forget about Durian.

at this moment in time,try finding some good bananas.

Originally Posted by headhunter

at this moment in time,try finding some good bananas.

Interesting you say that. A few hundred banana trees have just been planted in fields near me. It is the only banana plantation I know of round here.

Durian.

Did you know that...

• it takes 5-6 years (sometimes longer) before you can harvest your first fruits;
• it is not uncommon to see matured durian trees fail to flower, or to set fruit during fruiting season;
• developing fruits on the tree may drop prematurely, or become misshapened and unmarketable;
• many insect and mammalian pests attack durian and some may cause serious damage to the tree;
• many fungal diseases attack all parts of the tree including ripen fruits on sale, and some diseases are fatal;
• durian fruits may also suffer from physiological disorders such as "uneven fruit ripening", "wet core" and "tip burn" which make them unmarketable;
• "two-legged" thieves can smell your ripening durian fruits miles away and steal them if you are not vigilant
• natural calamities such as drought, fire or too much rain may happen and destroy your trees;
• when you have a bumper harvest, so can other farmers - a glut in the market brings down prices, therefore less profits; and
• marketing the fruits can be a bigger challenge than just producing the fruits.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Durian.

I think that belongs in the Daily Cheer thread.
:-)
No wonder the things are expensive.

ifonly -

First off, welcome to The Door - may you actually receive useful advice here. Point A: this is an anonymous internet forum, Point B: it is kind of limited in that there are about 300 active users, Point C: some of the posters actually live in Thailand, many have visited, some have passed through, and a few confuse Thailand and Taiwan, Point D: vet all the info you receive, you get what you pay for and advice on The Door is free, Point E: do not post anything on The Door you wouldn't put on a billboard for all the world to see, Point F: stay out of the many, many, many shitfests that happen here.

Now, to your situation, 43 year old falang newlywed living in the Land of Smiles. Take your time making decisions, you have plenty of time. Solicit advice then vet the advice your receive. Thailand is hot, the language is different and difficult (opinion), the culture and lifestyle are different, and there are many things you must learn to accept, it is their way, it is their country, and, even though your way may well be better and more efficient, it ain't their way - so, don't push it, they will not change, you should accept. Patience, tolerance, acceptance, use ignorance to your advantage - after all, it is not your country so your foreign behavior allows them to overlook any slights you may cause. Depend on your wife to handle the neighbors, the laws, and the bureaucracy.

Take your time and proceed slowly - for your sake I hope you enjoy Thai food. Good luck and keep us informed of how you are doing.

Thx bowie. Heared what you said plenty of times before and after my limited experience here I must say best advice vor every farrang. Coming to Thailand since a few years and after my longest stay (7months) decided to move here earlier than planned.

Originally Posted by HuangLao

If the land is considerable, I might opt towards a lesser saturated ag/horticultural product[s] that a more profitable market might bear.

Finding that product would be a hard up hill task as I'm sure most farmers have been looking for it for years. Anyone who grows anything different, to the norm, here and it will be copied if it proves worthwhile. Then causing over production and lower prices. Have seen them all, from rubber trees, mushrooms, sweetcorn, sugarcane to peanuts. At the end of the day they all return to the old timer, cassava. It's what makes Isaan tick.

^ Quite a bit of truth in what Prag writes above.


You need to find a product, which has a market which is unique or barriers to entry are high or unobtainable.

Thai are adept to keeping input prices low and that variable is the only one you have control over.

The market determines the sale price.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

^ Quite a bit of truth in what Prag writes above.


You need to find a product, which has a market which is unique or barriers to entry are high or unobtainable.

Thai are adept to keeping input prices low and that variable is the only one you have control over.

The market determines the sale price.

....and to be weary of the traditional ag mafia/govt controls that are always in place.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

The market determines the sale price.

Thanks for explaining it better than I did David. Out of desperation the Thais will kill the market with over supply if they found something more profitable to what they already produce. And it's been like that since time began. Definitely no profit in farming if one has to buy the land first.