Thread: What's rubber doing at the moment ?

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Think if you read my post I said Provincial title, Nor Sor 3



The difference between this type of land title deed and the Nor Sor 3 Gor is that a land with Nor Sor 3 title has never yet been measured by the Land Department; hence the land has no exact boundaries. However, the Nor Sor 3 title may later be switched to a Nor Sor 3 Gor, then furthermore, transform that title to a freehold title deed (Chanote) in the future.Jim

Post 88 Jim did you not say it does not matter what title the land was prior!!!

I do like a bit of discussion and like to learn from others,but with post it seems to be just going round in circles.

Best of luck Jim

OK will try and clear it up. All land in Thailand is to be surveyed and charnotes issued, but you can't go and pay to get it done, they are working area by area. As said they came down the 2248 road and surveyed both sides and issued charnotes including the villages on the road.

Now with Nor Sor 3 land it is a freehold issued by the Province, but the borders are draw on a map , not surveyed. You can pay for the survey and submit the report to the charnote people, they will then up grade the title to full charnote. There is no time set for the charnote to be issued, you just have to wait and I was told you can wait up to 10 years. Makes little difference to the value as the land is already freehold, the survey pegs are in, you just don't have the bit of paper yet. Jim

Sorry Jim but I think you tend to get your information a bit mixed up!
It does get a bit inconsistent to say the least.

My wife has taken a little interest in this thread.

She is 100% sure you have made a mistake as regards to having to wait up to ten years for Chanote paperwork after your survey has been done.
She thinks you may have been cheated if you have been told this.

Come on mate the Thais are notoriously slow but not to that extent!

Pay for the bods to come to our land was exactly what we done,not the official way but it can be done.
I know Jim I shelled out the dough,seemed the best way to go than wait 2 years which was the predicted time the land office told the wife they would be coming to the village.

No scam, there are no charnote titles out here except for the main highway, our land is miles away in the jungle and no charnote will be issued until the area becomes approved for charnote issuing. They are not saying it takes 10 years to do the paper work, they are saying the area has no been approved for charnote issue yet. When the area falls under the charnote people [ land dept ] control the charnote will be issued. At this time the land falls under Ubon province not the land department. The land department can not issue titles on land they do not control, yet. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

The difference between this type of land title deed and the Nor Sor 3 Gor is that a land with Nor Sor 3 title has never yet been measured by the Land Department; hence the land has no exact boundaries. However, the Nor Sor 3 title may later be switched to a Nor Sor 3 Gor, then furthermore, transform that title to a freehold title deed (Chanote) in the future.Jim

Which is exactly as I have done. As noted the land was never surveyed for the original title and when the survey was finally performed the land turned out to be significantly larger than the 4 rai estimate.

All has been processed through the land title department, registered in my wife's name, put on the governments computer files and photo records of all titles surveyed and registered.

The village head men I am told will still need to visit the property and agree that the new owner is a qualified "local," and that the land does not infringe on government or other peoples land rights. They also want to know your intentions with this land. No commercial operations are allowed by this community.

I'm sure it differs from location and closeness of the local community members and leaders.

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

She is 100% sure you have made a mistake as regards to having to wait up to ten years for Chanote paperwork after your survey has been done. She thinks you may have been cheated if you have been told this.

As Jim says, "just a figure of speech 10 years." I have all my paperwork completed, and now as I stated in the previous post, wait for the Chanote document.

GD have a Google search Thailand world bank land reform Lots of nice big PDF reports and files, hours of fun reading. Jim

Jim I will give that a miss thanks,no disrespect but you change your posts to fit your answers!

You have been inconsistent in this thread with your information!

I have just adding to this thread with my view of the rubber business as I have see it in Thailand.The land title has come into it and again I have quoted what I know,having gone through the Chanote process and educated myself about land titles I am happy with what I know.

Good luck with your business!

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Jim I will give that a miss thanks,no disrespect but you change your posts to fit your answers!

You have been inconsistent in this thread with your information!

I have just adding to this thread with my view of the rubber business as I have see it in Thailand.The land title has come into it and again I have quoted what I know,having gone through the Chanote process and educated myself about land titles I am happy with what I know.

Good luck with your business!

What are you talking about, what inconsistency, I don't take advice from my wife, but one of the biggest business accountancy firms in Ubon. If you had bothered to have a look you would have found we have a Limited partnership rubber company, 10 rai of industrial nationally zoned land with an open rubber license [ no longer issued ] paper value over 1 mil US, 100 rai of rubber, which puts us in the top 3 percent of rubber producers in Thailand.

This is no game for me, I didn't come for a long holiday and think I know it all. I came to make a life for me the wife and kids. We live in a 6 bedroom house have 4 cars and travel to OZ once a year, all paid for by rubber. Think I know a bit more about the subject than most.

Which Uni did your wife attend to gain all this knowledge, mine knows nothing, but went to Uni near BKK and Uni in Australia.

Google is your friend, try looking, laws an protocols are all there, as am I. Jim

Well Jim to be quite candid reading the exchanges between you and Dave ,plus the valued input from Pragmatic ,makes me kinda glad I made my pile long long before I came here to live the "easy life" in Thailand,and with the3 % interest on my substantial savings plus my pensions quite frankly whatever the price of commodities over here has very little bearing on my financial future ,but of course it goes without saying that those who choose to make their living here in spite of all the pitfalls , the very best of luck ,but sorry its just not for me cos I have no worry's, and I have air con and can sleep even in the hottest night with a power cut being a rare occurrence

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Well Jim to be quite candid reading the exchanges between you and Dave ,plus the valued input from Pragmatic ,makes me kinda glad I made my pile long long before I came here to live the "easy life" in Thailand,and with the3 % interest on my substantial savings plus my pensions quite frankly whatever the price of commodities over here has very little bearing on my financial future ,but of course it goes without saying that those who choose to make their living here in spite of all the pitfalls , the very best of luck ,but sorry its just not for me cos I have no worry's, and I have air con and can sleep even in the hottest night with a power cut being a rare occurrence

I just like taking it to the limit, never lived a safe life always like pushing the boundary. Done and seen thinks most only dream probably should have died years ago. Only thing that slows me down now is 2 small kids, don't want to leave them without a dad. Yet still I will go into the jungle were bandits, drug smuggles and poaches hide, all by myself. This year I hope to do a few rivers that have never been navigated.

Wife and kids have enough here that they will never be short, their future is secure, as well as can be in this world. If I died tomorrow, they would be sad no doubt, but I would rather die in the jungles of the Emerald Triangle or canoeing an unexplored river, or the moutains of Brtish Culombia or the outback of Australia, Than some hospital bed.

Just me and maybe I'm mad, take it to the limit one more time, before I am too old to push the envelope. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Jim I will give that a miss thanks,no disrespect but you change your posts to fit your answers!

You have been inconsistent in this thread with your information!

I have just adding to this thread with my view of the rubber business as I have see it in Thailand.The land title has come into it and again I have quoted what I know,having gone through the Chanote process and educated myself about land titles I am happy with what I know.

Good luck with your business!

What are you talking about, what inconsistency, I don't take advice from my wife, but one of the biggest business accountancy firms in Ubon. If you had bothered to have a look you would have found we have a Limited partnership rubber company, 10 rai of industrial nationally zoned land with an open rubber license [ no longer issued ] paper value over 1 mil US, 100 rai of rubber, which puts us in the top 3 percent of rubber producers in Thailand.

This is no game for me, I didn't come for a long holiday and think I know it all. I came to make a life for me the wife and kids. We live in a 6 bedroom house have 4 cars and travel to OZ once a year, all paid for by rubber. Think I know a bit more about the subject than most.

Which Uni did your wife attend to gain all this knowledge, mine knows nothing, but went to Uni near BKK and Uni in Australia.

Google is your friend, try looking, laws an protocols are all there, as am I. Jim

Jim I have been very diplomatic in my replies to you.

As I have said you seem to just change one post to suit the next!

My wife did not go to Uni and neither did I.
Sounds like a big boast from you which if its true was a waste of fucking time.
One minute you got a slate at the village shop for a six pack,now you have four motors and so on!

Rubber farming on the scale you talk about is the game of what where piss poor pheasants!!
Its very simple to set up and run a rubber farm with very limited skill needed.
Patients sitting around waiting for trees to grow,something Thais have no problem with.

I gained my knowledge from making injuries at the local land office through my wife.
You seem to know more than them,but I;m fucked if I would listen to what you say over their advice.
What she knows is based on family business which I guess goes back a bit further than your limited falang knowledge.

Her uncle was one of the first to plant rubber which was subsidized by the government as a viable crop to help impoverished farmers.

His success was soon followed by the rest of the family and any one in the village with spare land for trees.

They have made good money for sure but not one person in that village, has been told all their land is going to be made Chanote!!.
Not all but most plantation deals in that and the surrounding villages are signed deals on Sor Bor Gor title.
Deals that do and can go very pearshaped!


Your first view on land title and rubber business was,that as long as you used it no one would take it off you.
Title was not an issue for you,it was all about the business.

That started to change as the thread went on and continued to be changed.

In a nut shell Jim I think you are either full of shit or very confused.

Every Thread you post on you usually add the I'm on You Tube take a look Rubber is how I earn my living in Issan.

How many hits do you need

When I first came here about a year and half ago I took a look!
I knew very little apart from wondering around her father rubber farm.

Thanks Jim you taught me S.F.A!

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Its very simple to set up and run a rubber farm with very limited skill needed.

Big difference between talking and doing. Come back to the thread when you have tried the latter.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Well Jim to be quite candid reading the exchanges between you and Dave ,plus the valued input from Pragmatic ,makes me kinda glad I made my pile long long before I came here to live the "easy life" in Thailand,and with the3 % interest on my substantial savings plus my pensions quite frankly whatever the price of commodities over here has very little bearing on my financial future ,but of course it goes without saying that those who choose to make their living here in spite of all the pitfalls , the very best of luck ,but sorry its just not for me cos I have no worry's, and I have air con and can sleep even in the hottest night with a power cut being a rare occurrence

I just like taking it to the limit, never lived a safe life always like pushing the boundary. Done and seen thinks most only dream probably should have died years ago. Only thing that slows me down now is 2 small kids, don't want to leave them without a dad. Yet still I will go into the jungle were bandits, drug smuggles and poaches hide, all by myself. This year I hope to do a few rivers that have never been navigated.

Wife and kids have enough here that they will never be short, their future is secure, as well as can be in this world. If I died tomorrow, they would be sad no doubt, but I would rather die in the jungles of the Emerald Triangle or canoeing an unexplored river, or the moutains of Brtish Culombia or the outback of Australia, Than some hospital bed.

Just me and maybe I'm mad, take it to the limit one more time, before I am too old to push the envelope. Jim

Jim you don,t look like you could push a fucking wheelbarrow!,push the envelope leave it out.
Are you not just another retied Australian Policeman,that must have been a safe enough life pay cheque every month.
So you have never lived a safe life!!

Bandits, Drug smuggles and you all alone in the jungle!

I did state that I think you are either full of shit or get confused,got to stick with the full of shit now!!!!!

I would give you poaches no problem,every cnvt and his cousin is at it!

^ Your rants wreak of jealousy Dave.

JC has made a huge success of his life, and you have done..................?

He has never been anything but helpful, informative and interesting when it comes to rubber IMO.

Originally Posted by Aberlour

^ Your rants wreak of jealousy Dave.

JC has made a huge success of his life, and you have done..................?

He has never been anything but helpful, informative and interesting when it comes to rubber IMO.

You are one weird fucking clown!

Why are you adding anything to this thread after how many pages have passed.

Have you assigned yourself the job of my personal Mod in your sad world!
I am aware like most that you are not playing with a full deck so Fuck Off!!

^ I follow Jamescollister's posts with interest. I find it hilarious that of all people on here you could even manage to pick a fight with him.

He clearly knows a huge amount about rubber and you clearly know jack. You attack him personally, "you don,t look like you could push a fucking wheelbarrow!" for what reason?

If you had any hope of ever making a go of a rubber farm you needed to listen and learn from people like him. Never mind.

Originally Posted by Aberlour

^ I follow Jamescollister's posts with interest. I find it hilarious that of all people on here you could even manage to pick a fight with him.

He clearly knows a huge amount about rubber and you clearly know jack. You attack him personally, "you don,t look like you could push a fucking wheelbarrow!" for what reason?

If you had any hope of ever making a go of a rubber farm you needed to listen and learn from people like him. Never mind.

Your jumping on yet another band wagon like a friendless kid who ass licks to make friends.

You follow Jims Posts, well where has your input been, stupid question!!
Those that have been following( obvious you are not included ) the thread might agree that its been debatable,as in people seeking answers to questions.

I do not use the forum to pick fights,that is part of your child,s play and your way of thinking.

If you read the whole thread or even fucking Google you might see there is not a great deal to learn about rubber.

The main point to start was if there is money in the game and then onto your title rights of the land!

Something I will bet my bollocks you could not quote on!.

We have a small rubber farm and the wife gets a bit from her fathers.
I could learn nothing from Jim.

The quote I made as in Jim you don,t look like you could push a fucking wheelbarrow,was made due to the fact I have seen the man on You Tube!

Unlike you Abertwat I only state what I know to be right or in this case based on the image I viewed.

Where,s your thread about Bandits and Drug Smugglers that bollocks sounds right up your street!!

You come across as a complete fucking moron on this forum to me!!
Sure in person your a nice mature feller,we should meet for a beer

Dave, looks like you are having a bad time, what happened came to Thailand with big plans and failed, Had to return to a crap job, or the dole.

By the way I am not retired, no pension, too young when I came here, and what Thai farmers know about rubber wouldn't fill a tea cup.

You may want to have a look at the other forum, farming section, those in the Udon Thani area are having their lands converted to charnote now.

All I have posted can be verified on the net, perhaps read before you post, my name and profile are there, I'm not hiding behind an avatar. Jim

Here Dave have a read of the Government policy.


ASSETS CAPITALIZATION: BRIDGING LAND TO THE CAPITAL MARKETS 2
One of the main drivers of the assets capitalization policy is the recognition that a sizeable stock of assets, particularly those held by lower-income and the poverty-stricken groups, cannot be capitalized. The combination of constraints, ranging from the questionable legitimacy of claims, the risk factors and the high costs for administering loans to large number of loan applicants, has resulted in differential costs of capital for the marginalized social and economic groups, thereby placing them in even more disadvantaged positions. Moreover, the fact that those assets cannot be used to access capital amounts to saying that the value of assets in question is limited to only its use value, thus restricting the ability to maximize the potential economic rent.
The launching of this policy is based on two basic assumptions. First, while the poor do have assets, operational channels for the poor to access capital are currently limited. Second, creating access to capital can be a modality for unleashing the productive capacity of the poor, thereby helping them to escape the poverty trap. The policy intervention is designed to create that access to capital by formalizing lesser forms of property rights used by the marginalized economic groups in the rural sector, as well as their urban poor counterparts in the so-called informal sector of the economy. A precondition for bridging these small and informal economies to the capital markets will be the registration of those assets as a step towards creating values from them.
The existence of accurate data and information, both in terms of registration records and maps, is of critical importance, and is seen as a precondition to gaining access to formal sources of credit. In launching the policy, many of the factors and basic information appear to be unknown, such as: what is the stock of land under public agencies; what are the legal properties and how do they affect price and the capitalization process; and what is the land value, and to what extent do such values determine access to the formal capital market?
Regarding the first two objectives, in estimating the stock of public land that is under the responsibility of various public agencies in Thailand, the five basic questions are: (i) how much land is under the jurisdiction of the various public agencies; (ii) the size and the location of land; (iii) the current status of land use; (iv) whether land is legally occupied through formal permission of the agencies responsible or leased out, or whether land is illegally occupied through encroachment; and (v) the market values of various types of land documents. One of the difficulties of estimating the total stock of public land is that although each public agency has been and still is responsible for compiling and updating their land database, there is no single agency that compiles and combines the data. In most cases, there is no established access to land data even among the public institutions themselves. Thus, more often than not, there is heavy reliance on informal and personal channels.
As the key agency at the policy level to oversee the implementation of this policy, the immediate concern of the ACB is to expedite the process of registration of land rights, contracts and various types of permits on assets, as well as verification of the authenticity of such documents. To minimize both time and expense by being able to focus efforts on what is really essential, it was decided that it would be a more practical start for the agencies in charge of the land assets covered by the policy and the financial institutions to work out what critical information would be needed. The agencies directly responsible, together with the public financial institutions, will be responsible for improving and converting the existing database into computerized information that can be shared. The ACB will work with the Ministry of Information Technology and Communication to design a central data System, which

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Dave, looks like you are having a bad time, what happened came to Thailand with big plans and failed, Had to return to a crap job, or the dole.

By the way I am not retired, no pension, too young when I came here, and what Thai farmers know about rubber wouldn't fill a tea cup.

You may want to have a look at the other forum, farming section, those in the Udon Thani area are having their lands converted to charnote now.

All I have posted can be verified on the net, perhaps read before you post, my name and profile are there, I'm not hiding behind an avatar. Jim

No Jim I came to Thailand to escape the Rat race with no big plan as such!
We did( or rather the wife ) plan to invest in between 15 to 20 rai of rubber.
As I mention after much advise from the land office we only bought 5 rais as that was the only land viewed with a legitimate title.
We did view one other plot which was not bad( 21 rai )but the mans price was twice that of what I valued it.

We have a stunning plot of land to live on,however I did make the mistake of buying to close to the wife,s family!.
Buying and selling land was never in my thoughts but is now.
Lets just say me ( Mainly her father ) and them have our differences.

Some might what to point a finger and say I have failed,in my eyes I made a mistake and moved on.

I did return to the U.K for a very short stay but not to a crap job or the dole!
I'm not a rich man but don,t need the dole,my job was their to walk back into but I never would.
For now I am back in Thailand what my future here will be I don,t know,but do know I have no intention of investing in more rubber land!.

What Thai farmers know about rubber wouldn't fill a tea cup!
You might have this view but my view there,s not a great deal to learn about the game!
Thais have been at it for far far longer than you and farming in their own country,sure you the falang have turned up educated every cnvt and are know now as the King Pin in Rubber.

It would seem many things can be verified on the net!
It would be an easy world if everything you read on there married up with what is actually reality.
I have posted on personal experience of getting knowledge straight from the horses mouth!.

I gave a view and asked questions when facts where stated that appeared incorrect.
Like I said your posts have been inconsistent as far as I'm concerned.

Watch out for them Bandits Jim!! the real one,s I doubt you would spot!,most live in Udon only monkeies live in the jungle.
All the best Dave

Thanks Jim yes interesting!

Sorry could not find the bit that says Land with the Title Sor Bor Gor will be changed to Chanote!

I have viewed some offer information which focuses on village community titles being issued,but again no specific information on changing existing title Sor Bor Gor.

That title is the one I would have no interest in and as far as I am aware at present is not legal to sell (Thais do of course ).
Its government land allocated to poor farmers which is passed down the family.
Dave

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Thanks Jim yes interesting!



That title is the one I would have no interest in and as far as I am aware at present is not legal to sell (Thais do of course ).
Its government land allocated to poor farmers which is passed down the family.
Dave

I believe 20 Rai person, or 50 Rai per family, is all that can be owned legally.

Originally Posted by Aberlour

JC has made a huge success of his life

It wasn't a few post back where he says he hadn't got 2 Baht to rub together, or words to that effect, I wouldn't count that as "a huge success".

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Thanks Jim yes interesting!



That title is the one I would have no interest in and as far as I am aware at present is not legal to sell (Thais do of course ).
Its government land allocated to poor farmers which is passed down the family.
Dave

I believe 20 Rai person, or 50 Rai per family, is all that can be owned legally.

I can,t really quote as I don,t know!

The wife,s Uncle from the fathers side has about 600 rai with his partner,just built a factory.
When I first came to live in Thailand he arrived back in the village about 5 months after.
Been grafting in New Zealand for thirteen years sending his dough back for the family to by rubber land.


The wife has just told me she thinks that you could partly be right as she did here about a law stating 20 to 30 rai per owner.

The uncle in question has put his land in various family names.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Thanks Jim yes interesting!



That title is the one I would have no interest in and as far as I am aware at present is not legal to sell (Thais do of course ).
Its government land allocated to poor farmers which is passed down the family.
Dave

I believe 20 Rai person, or 50 Rai per family, is all that can be owned legally.

That's correct for low title land,
Dave there are dozens of land titles here, that's what the whole land reform thing is about. You keep on about one type, issued under one Government department, titles are issued by villages, Amphores, tessabans, districts, provinces and maybe 4 or 5 National Government Departments and off course plain old possession land, no title at all.

This national survey started over 10 years ago, mainly in the BKK area, or how would the city be able to expand if most of the land was low title and couldn't be sold. Lots of Sor Por Gor land out here, most of the surrounding area of Ubon city was Sor Por Gor land, how could you build a home hub, Big C etc if the titles weren't changed.

All land in Thailand will be surveyed and all legal land no matter the title will be issued with a national charnote title. It's a big country and they started with the cities, main highways and places of importance, it may well take another 20 years to do the whole place. They want a modern computerized land registry.

I will try and find something that mentions Sor Por Gor, but no where does it say all land except Sor Por Gor, it's just another title. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Thanks Jim yes interesting!



That title is the one I would have no interest in and as far as I am aware at present is not legal to sell (Thais do of course ).
Its government land allocated to poor farmers which is passed down the family.
Dave

I believe 20 Rai person, or 50 Rai per family, is all that can be owned legally.

That's correct for low title land,
Dave there are dozens of land titles here, that's what the whole land reform thing is about. You keep on about one type, issued under one Government department, titles are issued by villages, Amphores, tessabans, districts, provinces and maybe 4 or 5 National Government Departments and off course plain old possession land, no title at all.

This national survey started over 10 years ago, mainly in the BKK area, or how would the city be able to expand if most of the land was low title and couldn't be sold. Lots of Sor Por Gor land out here, most of the surrounding area of Ubon city was Sor Por Gor land, how could you build a home hub, Big C etc if the titles weren't changed.

All land in Thailand will be surveyed and all legal land no matter the title will be issued with a national charnote title. It's a big country and they started with the cities, main highways and places of importance, it may well take another 20 years to do the whole place. They want a modern computerized land registry.

I will try and find something that mentions Sor Por Gor, but no where does it say all land except Sor Por Gor, it's just another title. Jim

Jim I am all for being educated although I can,t see this affecting me in the future.

I mention one title as that was the one that almost all rubber farms I viewed had.I did the research and was made aware that its not wise for falang to invest in this land.

I think you will find that almost all rubber land with that title is within land which still boarders jungle and other protected areas.
The bottom line is a lot of Thais have the right to farm basically cleared jungle for a yearly government tax.

Rubber made many want that land with all sorts of deals between thais,with sometime Thais looking for falang buyers with a over inflated price attached.

Don,t think tesco or big c will be popping up in those places.