Thread: What's rubber doing at the moment ?

Jim , A guy who appears to know quite a bit about Rubber as he 60 rai of producing trees told me a couple of days ago its takes 2 and a half Kilo's of raw latex to make 1 Kilo of sheet is this correct?

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Jim , A guy who appears to know quite a bit about Rubber as he 60 rai of producing trees told me a couple of days ago its takes 2 and a half Kilo's of raw latex to make 1 Kilo of sheet is this correct?

Different trees produce different rubber contain latex, ours run around 34%. so 3 liters of latex for a 1 kilo sheet. So Think the guy has his numbers a bit out as 3 liters of water would weigh 3 kilos. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Jim , A guy who appears to know quite a bit about Rubber as he 60 rai of producing trees told me a couple of days ago its takes 2 and a half Kilo's of raw latex to make 1 Kilo of sheet is this correct?

Different trees produce different rubber contain latex, ours run around 34%. so 3 liters of latex for a 1 kilo sheet. So Think the guy has his numbers a bit out as 3 liters of water would weigh 3 kilos. Jim

Cheers for that Jim ,the guy appears to be doing OK enough with his rubber he informs me in spite of the depressed price .

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Jim , A guy who appears to know quite a bit about Rubber as he 60 rai of producing trees told me a couple of days ago its takes 2 and a half Kilo's of raw latex to make 1 Kilo of sheet is this correct?

Different trees produce different rubber contain latex, ours run around 34%. so 3 liters of latex for a 1 kilo sheet. So Think the guy has his numbers a bit out as 3 liters of water would weigh 3 kilos. Jim

Cheers for that Jim ,the guy appears to be doing OK enough with his rubber he informs me in spite of the depressed price .

If he's Thai he is doing better than alright, you have to remember most rural Thais can live on almost nothing in the form of cash. He would be making cash every week. Only payments will be the big pickup truck. Think of it this way, minimum wage here is 300 Baht and people can live, he will be making at least 10 times that.
There are a lot of people in the west who earn less and still have to pay rent and bills. Jim

I thought this a very informative read on getting a return on rubber trees.What is the financial return on a rubber tree farm in Thailand?

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Jim , A guy who appears to know quite a bit about Rubber as he 60 rai of producing trees told me a couple of days ago its takes 2 and a half Kilo's of raw latex to make 1 Kilo of sheet is this correct?

Different trees produce different rubber contain latex, ours run around 34%. so 3 liters of latex for a 1 kilo sheet. So Think the guy has his numbers a bit out as 3 liters of water would weigh 3 kilos. Jim

Cheers for that Jim ,the guy appears to be doing OK enough with his rubber he informs me in spite of the depressed price .

If he's Thai he is doing better than alright, you have to remember most rural Thais can live on almost nothing in the form of cash. He would be making cash every week. Only payments will be the big pickup truck. Think of it this way, minimum wage here is 300 Baht and people can live, he will be making at least 10 times that.
There are a lot of people in the west who earn less and still have to pay rent and bills. Jim

Nah Jim he's English .but lived here for donkeys years and got in when land was a hell of a lot cheaper than it is nowadays .

Same same here, I could never afford to be starting now, everything is just to expensive now.
Good read the link, fairly accurate. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Same same here, I could never afford to be starting now, everything is just to expensive now.
Good read the link, fairly accurate. Jim

So the bottom line is then Jim rubber is not worth two bob to be getting into now!

You forget to mention that those that have bought land which is Sor bor Gor Government land, where a little Tax is paid by a Thai national to farm it have bought no more than a lease business!

Good luck to who ever throws money into this business and to those that are already there.

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Good luck to who ever throws money into this business and to those that are already there.

I concur. I try to understand as to why a farang comes to Thailand and overnight becomes a farmer. Would he take up farming so easily in his own country? My take on this is that the farang has money in their homeland. The 'teelak' doesn't want this as it will prove difficult and costly to access in the event of his death. Therefore the teelak comes up with the great idea of buying land as a way of making money. She herself has never farmed before and has no business sense what so ever. But that doesn't matter. Making money isn't the major factor here. It's getting her partner to bring all his assets over here and put into her name. Job done. You die and she lives happy ever after. No problems.
Okay, there may be exceptions to the above but in general that's how I see things on the ground around where I live.

^ A very very shrewd assessment of how it really is ! ,My Compliments I know quite a lot of elderly "Newcomers" who have suddenly become "farmers" ,sorry, but I could make a hell of a lot more in the UK than I ever could here, so being an "horny handed " son of the soil is just not for me , I have 3 grown up kids back there in the UK who have done well for themselves ,and if possible I would like them to have a bit of my estate when I finally croke , I am often asked If I am not bored ,of which I always reply the same better to be bored than on Valium worried to death about were all my hard eared dough has gone ,of course there are success story,s like Jim and a few others I know here in my area ,but I have heard a lot more that would bring tears to a glass eye

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Same same here, I could never afford to be starting now, everything is just to expensive now.
Good read the link, fairly accurate. Jim

So the bottom line is then Jim rubber is not worth two bob to be getting into now!

You forget to mention that those that have bought land which is Sor bor Gor Government land, where a little Tax is paid by a Thai national to farm it have bought no more than a lease business!

Good luck to who ever throws money into this business and to those that are already there.

No I am not saying that it is not worth getting into now, just that I couldn't afford to start up now. Like most farming the big players are moving in or trying to move in. Goodyear in Cambodia 10,000 hectares etc We get BKK Thai/ Chinese families out here looking to buy plantations and they are willing to pay big bucks. They look at things as long term investments, just as people in the west invest in pension schemes.
Where most go wrong, is they believe you can just send money and all will be good, you can't do that anywhere in this world. If you want to farm or run any business, you have to be all in and hands on, or it will crash.

On the land title thing, all land in Thailand is to become charnote. Part of a land reform project brought about by the IMF. The alleged reason is that small farmers will be able to use the land as collateral with the banks to by farm equipment etc. Real reason will be that big business can buy up all the small farms, just as has happened in many western countries. Get the people off their land and into the factories where they belong.

You can not do farming or any other business in Thailand unless you are committed, you have to go in boots and all, no jumping on a plane home at the first sign of trouble. If you have nothing to go back to, you have to make it work.

I know of only one other farang that lives here and makes his living from farming. All the others are hobby farmers and can just walk away, which often happens. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Same same here, I could never afford to be starting now, everything is just to expensive now.
Good read the link, fairly accurate. Jim

So the bottom line is then Jim rubber is not worth two bob to be getting into now!

You forget to mention that those that have bought land which is Sor bor Gor Government land, where a little Tax is paid by a Thai national to farm it have bought no more than a lease business!

Good luck to who ever throws money into this business and to those that are already there.

No I am not saying that it is not worth getting into now, just that I couldn't afford to start up now. Like most farming the big players are moving in or trying to move in. Goodyear in Cambodia 10,000 hectares etc We get BKK Thai/ Chinese families out here looking to buy plantations and they are willing to pay big bucks. They look at things as long term investments, just as people in the west invest in pension schemes.
Where most go wrong, is they believe you can just send money and all will be good, you can't do that anywhere in this world. If you want to farm or run any business, you have to be all in and hands on, or it will crash.

On the land title thing, all land in Thailand is to become charnote. Part of a land reform project brought about by the IMF. The alleged reason is that small farmers will be able to use the land as collateral with the banks to by farm equipment etc. Real reason will be that big business can buy up all the small farms, just as has happened in many western countries. Get the people off their land and into the factories where they belong.

You can not do farming or any other business in Thailand unless you are committed, you have to go in boots and all, no jumping on a plane home at the first sign of trouble. If you have nothing to go back to, you have to make it work.

I know of only one other farang that lives here and makes his living from farming. All the others are hobby farmers and can just walk away, which often happens. Jim

Jim as far as I am aware if land has a Sor Bor Gor Title its government land where a yearly tax is paid.
My wife,s family has this land mostly,there is already a bank for farmers operating( Tor Gor Sor is the bank name,don,t quote the spelling )that loans farmer with this land.


I have no personal interest in this land so have not looked into any future government plans.
It would be a massive surprise to me to learn that the government is going to change this land to chanote titles.
Basically giving everyone concerned a big pay day should they chose to sell,and loosing all the yearly tax they claim.

I do know for sure that if a Thai has land with no title but the land is known to be theirs,they can go through the process to obtain Chanote title.

Land such as this can be a very good buy for your Thai partners
Dave

GD, sure if you did a Google search you could find the land reform thing, the whole country is to be surveyed, big job. They haven't got this far out yet and it maybe 10 years before they get here, but they did the main road 2248 about 4 years ago and charnotes were issued. Didn't make any difference what the land title was prior, they only wanted to know who owned [used ] the land, confirmed by the village head or whoever was the boss of the area.
You still have to pay the land tax, no escaping tax, and if you sell before a certain number of years you get hit with capital gains tax. Our factory was no title land and we applied and got it zoned national industrial title, the charnote was issued when the main road was done. Jim

^In order to obtain the Chanote, the land in question must be surveyed, registered at the land office and then the village, heads must look at the property and approve its surveyed boundaries. Meaning no other lands, personal or governmental are being encroached upon.

I have done mine and am waiting for the village heads to do the walk through process. This can be months in the waiting as getting all parties together is a chore and they like to do more than one registration at a time. Its not a "will call," visit. Guys busy as heck.

My survey turned out that my land was greater than stated on the original title and therefore receives greater scrutiny. I've been told by the government office in Chaing Rai that I can feel free to commence building regardless of not having the official Chanote title. The visit is simply custom or part of the governments protocol.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

GD, sure if you did a Google search you could find the land reform thing, the whole country is to be surveyed, big job. They haven't got this far out yet and it maybe 10 years before they get here, but they did the main road 2248 about 4 years ago and charnotes were issued. Didn't make any difference what the land title was prior, they only wanted to know who owned [used ] the land, confirmed by the village head or whoever was the boss of the area.
You still have to pay the land tax, no escaping tax, and if you sell before a certain number of years you get hit with capital gains tax. Our factory was no title land and we applied and got it zoned national industrial title, the charnote was issued when the main road was done. Jim

Like I have mentioned I have no interest in this type of land.
I am only quoting what I have learnt from the local government officials in Sang Khom
However I did have a little look on google and was only able to find information about community titles.
It was only a five minute search so if you have a better link Jim rather than just say google I will take another look.
Dave

Originally Posted by ltnt

^In order to obtain the Chanote, the land in question must be surveyed, registered at the land office and then the village, heads must look at the property and approve its surveyed boundaries. Meaning no other lands, personal or governmental are being encroached upon.

I have done mine and am waiting for the village heads to do the walk through process. This can be months in the waiting as getting all parties together is a chore and they like to do more than one registration at a time. Its not a "will call," visit. Guys busy as heck.

My survey turned out that my land was greater than stated on the original title and therefore receives greater scrutiny. I've been told by the government office in Chaing Rai that I can feel free to commence building regardless of not having the official Chanote title. The visit is simply custom or part of the governments protocol.

To obtain a Chanote on land it has to be either non title or have a title which can be changed,example would be Nor Sor Sam or land that has never been registered.


Yes the government people do come out and do the survey,and then you wait for the paperwork.
As far as the village head being involved he was not needed.He was needed to sign and witness the sale agreement only when the wife bought the land from the original owner as there was non title.


To be honest I got pissed off with looking at land where the owners claimed it was easy to obtain a Chanote,or no problem with this and that.
The local land office gave me all the information needed to walk away from what looked like lovely plots.

GD not much of a computer person and have a dongle which only works some times. We have had no electricity for the last 2 nights after 2000 hours and stinking hot, but found this it may find what you are looking for.


info.worldbank.org/.../Thai%20Land%20Titling%20Full%20Case.pdf

Many charnotes are being issued on what was once crown land, it will take years to cover the whole country. I paid to have provincial title surveyed for charnote and was told it may be 10 years before it gets issued and that was with the help of the Governor of Ubon. Things just take time here, if you own it and use it, in the end you will own it. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

GD not much of a computer person and have a dongle which only works some times. We have had no electricity for the last 2 nights after 2000 hours and stinking hot, but found this it may find what you are looking for.


info.worldbank.org/.../Thai%20Land%20Titling%20Full%20Case.pdf

Many charnotes are being issued on what was once crown land, it will take years to cover the whole country. I paid to have provincial title surveyed for charnote and was told it may be 10 years before it gets issued and that was with the help of the Governor of Ubon. Things just take time here, if you own it and use it, in the end you will own it. Jim

Jim I to am not much of a computer man!

I'm not actually trying to make myself wrong,what I know has come straight from the horses mouth.
I thought maybe you might just post a straight forward click on link.
Are you going to?

If you have paid to have survey,s done and have been told it take ten years!!! to get issued I smell a rat.

Listen sorry but you are sounding very naive now,how much did you pay?
We paid to speed up the process of getting a bod out to do the survey on our land,as it could of been years before they were in the area to do it.

Granted it can be anywhere from a couple to several months to get Chanote paperwork.
You saying you have shelled out and the survey has been done,just to be clear.

If you have paid out for land with the title of Sor Bor Gor you will never legally own that land.
At some point your wife might pass it on or sell for you to another Thai which is common with them,but the name on the title will not change.
Its complicated shit which does lead to many Thai fall outs.
Its not uncommon for land like this to pass hands only then to be disputed by other family members.
Dave

Think if you read my post I said Provincial title, Nor Sor 3



The difference between this type of land title deed and the Nor Sor 3 Gor is that a land with Nor Sor 3 title has never yet been measured by the Land Department; hence the land has no exact boundaries. However, the Nor Sor 3 title may later be switched to a Nor Sor 3 Gor, then furthermore, transform that title to a freehold title deed (Chanote) in the future.Jim

I was responding to Gravesend Dave.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

If you have paid out for land with the title of Sor Bor Gor you will never legally own that land.

Sor Por Gor (Kor) is only transferable in name upon the death of the title holder. Then it must be transferred into another family members name. This is causing much problems in Thailand in that land is being sold off. The new owner thinks they rightfully own the land. Upon the death of the original title holder, who's name still appears on the title paper, family members then come forward and contest the sale. It then ends up in a court of law taking years and many Bahts to sort out.
As for Chanote title being issued to Sor Por Kor . I was told 7 years ago that all Sor Por Gor (Kor) land will be altered inside 10 years to Chanote. Thais are dreamers. Where I live they think that if they say they are communists they will get free land or 300,000 Baht. They've been flocking to pay to become registered members of the Communist Party. I'd say 95% don't even know what the Communist Party is. But that doesn't matter as long as they get the land or money. Dumb fcukers.

Yes that is a major problem a falang could encounter by buying this land,a family member claiming what is on paper his right.

They stitch each other up let right and center!

I have read something about community Titles being issued but don,t see how that is of benefit for the invester

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I was responding to Gravesend Dave.

So was I. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Think if you read my post I said Provincial title, Nor Sor 3



The difference between this type of land title deed and the Nor Sor 3 Gor is that a land with Nor Sor 3 title has never yet been measured by the Land Department; hence the land has no exact boundaries. However, the Nor Sor 3 title may later be switched to a Nor Sor 3 Gor, then furthermore, transform that title to a freehold title deed (Chanote) in the future.Jim

Post 88 Jim did you not say it does not matter what title the land was prior!!!

I do like a bit of discussion and like to learn from others,but with post it seems to be just going round in circles.

Best of luck Jim

Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Think if you read my post I said Provincial title, Nor Sor 3



The difference between this type of land title deed and the Nor Sor 3 Gor is that a land with Nor Sor 3 title has never yet been measured by the Land Department; hence the land has no exact boundaries. However, the Nor Sor 3 title may later be switched to a Nor Sor 3 Gor, then furthermore, transform that title to a freehold title deed (Chanote) in the future.Jim

Post 88 Jim did you not say it does not matter what title the land was prior!!!

I do like a bit of discussion and like to learn from others,but with post it seems to be just going round in circles.

Best of luck Jim

OK will try and clear it up. All land in Thailand is to be surveyed and charnotes issued, but you can't go and pay to get it done, they are working area by area. As said they came down the 2248 road and surveyed both sides and issued charnotes including the villages on the road.

Now with Nor Sor 3 land it is a freehold issued by the Province, but the borders are draw on a map , not surveyed. You can pay for the survey and submit the report to the charnote people, they will then up grade the title to full charnote. There is no time set for the charnote to be issued, you just have to wait and I was told you can wait up to 10 years. Makes little difference to the value as the land is already freehold, the survey pegs are in, you just don't have the bit of paper yet. Jim