Thread: Proof Of Ownership

Originally Posted by Data

Trespass is a very grey area here, due to the compromise, the court proceedings and the report I had from the police.

Is your name on the title, chanot or what it's called, as a resident?

Originally Posted by Data

I am told that under Thai law, she does not have to prove she ever had any gold??? Can this be true?

Donnow.
I would have thought she'd have to prove you stole it, not that she had it?

1. No my name is not on the chanot, but because of the compromise, the judge could award me about 97%, if the next court hearing goes ahead.

2. I wish I new, as I really do not want to submit to her blackmail.

if she can provide a "witness" to the fact she had the gold and it was kept in the house the police can get pretty nasty, you will have to compromise or face another submission to the PP

Are you Thai, Data?

The reason I ask is that I thought a non-Thai couldn't own land.

No I'm not Thai, that's why I made the mistake of putting it i her name.

Get a decent, reasonably-priced attorney - preferably a westerner, if at all possible.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

they have to sign a document giving up all claims to the land (I think). Dunno if this takes away your right for a settlement in the event of a divorce.

that's what I thought.

Originally Posted by Data

My ex has accused me of removing ##baht gold from a house, which is her name.

You obviously were married and are now divorced......?

Originally Posted by Data

I paid for the land and house, and it is the subject of a 14 month court case already.

Does the court recognize this as fact?

Was the reasons given for the divorce against your or your ex-wife's better interests.

The house I am presently living in now was the subject of a court battle between a farang and his former Thai wife and he actually won the case and I purchased the house from him. Apparently his ex had run off with her lesbian lover and left the farang and their kids on their own.

She duly returned and demanded this and that and lost the case.

Good luck with your case and like always get a good lawyer.

Originally Posted by Data

No I'm not Thai, that's why I made the mistake of putting it i her name.

Not a mistake, thats the way the law is in Thailand, Every body is in the same boat concerning land and are open to total loss.

Anyway your no orphan as it happens everyday, live and learn mate.

Top idea to rent, no problem then is there ? nothing to lose, no risk and peace of mind.

Thanks guys.
No I was never married to the 'lady', but we were living together as man and wife.

I don't have a problem with the court, and I do know that in 'family' matters things take time.
Although she has a lawyer, it is my belief that she has been advised by a judge, who is a family friend, that the compromise I got from the public prosecutor will eventually cost her everything. This is why she is now trying to blackmail me.

But I still need to know, if she has accused me of stealing gold, under Thai law, does she have to prove that she had this gold in the first place? And how can I have stolen something which has never existed?
If proof of ownership is not required n Thaland, then that leads to the fact that anyone can accuse anyone else of stealing anything!!!

It shouldn't be difficult to prove the gold existed, with a receipt or some witness to testify she once had it, but more to the point is if you did steal it I would expect even in LoS there is a burden of proof, however fragile.

Originally Posted by keda

I would expect even in LoS there is a burden of proof, however fragile.

Well, the gold was in the house before he went there, although, unfortunately, the receipts to prove it ever existed got lost.

And it wasn't there later.

Do not doubt the Thai detectives ability to add 2 and 2.

Yup, can't see its existence being the issue because that can be 'proven' with the sudden emergence of a receipt, or witnesses, but worth addressing since Data claimed innocense (*13) of stealing something that never existed.

Originally Posted by Data

does she have to prove that she had this gold in the first place?

I wouldn't have thought so.

If you were mugged for your wallet/whatever, you might not have a reciept for it, but that wouldn't be an obstacle when reporting it to the plod.

anyone can accuse anyone else of stealing anything

That's right - they can.

Proving they nicked it is another matter.

Sorry I don't know the legal ins & outs, Data & I hope this shit works out for you.

Let us know what happens.

Thanks again guys.
As said, the gold NEVER existed. Even if it had, there would be no logic for me to steal it, as it could cost me my 10 million baht house/land!!!

You have to be caught with the stolen gold on your person, in your car, your house, etc. Furthermore, she would have to positively ID the gold through a serial number or other distinguishing feature such as a custom jewel setting which could be compared to a photograph. She can accuse you all she likes, but it does not make a case. Can you imagine what the world would be like if you could just accuse people of things with absolutely no proof whatsoever and get them locked up in the clink?

Stop worrying about it.

You might even be able to sue her for slander, libel, or defamation if she keeps that up. Now that's a common case here in Thailand and you know how they are about losing face.

why not just make a deal with the police and ex --pay her for the gold and move on--i don't know what it's worth,,but i would think a small price to pay to smooth out the deal for a multi million baht house

[at] data

Damn man. Never give in for the black mail.

OK. I don't know anything about thai legislation but something about norwegian/swedish.

If you are blackmailed on the gold. Never ever give in to the blackmail. Especially in front of witnesses. What happens then is that You admit guilt and thus the evidence against you ar suddenly a lot stronger.

Paying her off to get rid of her, just enhances the evidence against you. No proof and not giving in to the scam will most probably give her a juicy lawyer bill to pay. Giving her anything will just scream: "I did it!" to the lawyer and prosecutor

If I am wrong on this issue, please be free to post a comment.

-: P A R A N H A :-

Thanks paranha.
I certainly don't inend to give in to blackmail, but as you probably know, in non western countries, it tends to be the norm.
Next week I have to go to the public prosecutors office, with my lawyer, and the police will be bringing their paperwork. I assume that the police will be asking the prosecutor if there is a case or not. I have been reading Thai law books over the past couple of days, and know that the onus is on the police/prosecutor to prove that I have commited a theft. It will be interesting to see what evidence they have for something which has never happened!!!

Surely she would know if the gold never existed, and someone has probably advised her that proof on both accounts, existence and then theft, is needed before you could be successfully prosecuted.

Doesn't compute.

Hi there Data.

Good to hear that. Hope everything goes well in the court hearings.

I am aware about *things* are a little bit more difficult here and in S-A. and sometimes the wisest/sanest is to get away from the situation.

Please keep us postet about how it goes with this case

Regards

-: P A R A N H A :-

Originally Posted by keda

Surely she would know if the gold never existed, and someone has probably advised her that proof on both accounts, existence and then theft, is needed before you could be successfully prosecuted.

Doesn't compute.

.

Quite true what you say Keda. Then it's what she has up the sleeve that might make things a little difficult.

She might go for the intimidation tactics to try to get some more $$$$'s out of Data or she has some phoney papers to show ownership of the missing gold.

BTW greened you