Thread: Disaster alert! New Build...

In the initial stages of the build they will work hard and do a good job. Don't drop your guard, put your trust in them, and leave them be. The quality of work will drop rapidly if you do this. Be on-site every day.

^ I can't. The dad does care and will make sure everything is okay. It's gonna be a Thai job, I'm gonna have to accept that, but I can have important input here and there, that's about it.

Good foundations. Safe wiring. A nice onsuite with a big bath for me. A big study with soundproofing for me. A deck/terrace where I can relax. The rest can be a Thai house for the missus and her mother... I can't get too stressed about it. I'm gonna get a nice colour roof (teracotta?) and a well painted finish with multiple and correct coats (off white?), but I ain't gonna be sending my blood pressure through the roof here...

Pictures will start to come mid/end of January.

The missus just said that she don't like Ford, and doesn't want to change the Honda City to a Ford Ranger. I told her it comes in pairs or not at all: house and Ranger or nothing and nothing... I think, for the first time in nearly 10 years, I may have won an argument.

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

how about considering one of those knock down thingies , that possibly you can get in for about the 600k mark ?

We've agreed this evening - stick strictly within a 600k budget. For the dad, we'll stick on a new roof and redo his bathroom/toilet (70k).

What do you mean by 'knock down thingies', mate?

Her 3 rai of land is only worth about 300k, but it's next to her dad's, her uncle is the next plot along (9 or 10 rai), the grandma is still around and only 1km up the road; other relatives around - good security and local knowledge. Can plant some nice trees on the plot, there's a pond already for fish/fishing; it's fine for an occasional place for me and a permanent place for her. I can get a condo around work, and I'm free to move jobs/condo (or house) whenever I want.

My thoughts are that in Thailand you're better off being surrounded by family, in a compound or owning all the fields around - the family area is 20+ rai; no noise or hassle from other folk - if somebody wants to come and cause trouble: 1) they're gonna have to make an effort to find you; 2) they're gonna be seen on their approach; 3) they're gonna be seen and known from a lifetime's network of neighbours, cousins, friends, etc. It's relatively safe.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

What do you mean by 'knock down thingies', mate?

Its a bit of a quick build type kit house ,, relatively cheap and also fairly portable if you ever wanna up sticks and away

I think in the past I have stayed in some in resorts out in the depths , quite nice , bedroom /living room , hong naam aircon etc even fridge and tv , quite homely and more comfortable than the Thai wood / concrete combo IMO

^ the missus wouldn't be having that, mate!

^ Mine would rather live in a bloody tent than a luxury build ,, to be honest she would be in 7th heaven in a build like a knockdown , has even suggested it to save money bless her ,, but theres no need we can afford a decent build and I like a bit of solidity ,, that reminds me its getting toward bedtime here ,, now where is that little packet gone ?

Originally Posted by tsicar

if you are not present to supervise and know nothing about building, this is the worst possible way to build a house.

Have to agree with this. I tried it with bad results. My house was built using local village builder and local labor. The house didn't come out like the plans due to their inexperience with following a 'map'. There were few electrical outlets installed, though they were included on a separate page in the plans. I had to have the whole house rewired just a couple of years after the build. Windows installed where convenient. Thai bathroom installed instead of western. The tile work was crap. I could see the plumbing was wacky when they started the installation (PVC being the smallest size possible) and hired a professional plumber. I can go on.......

You can spend more money correcting all the mistakes than you would by hiring professionals in the first place.

Originally Posted by can123

I've already dealt with the depth of foundations, see above. Have you ever seen footings in the UK which were only half a metre deep ? Almost certainly not, garden walls, yes, houses, no.

yes, my house in London has approx half metre foundations, maily brick resting on gravel/clay

mind you, over 200 years ago they thought that was fine

anyway, it is still standing

Jesus,BettyBoo, I thought you were off to Saudi? Now you're a home-builder in Issan?

Tisacar has some solid point indeed. I think he's had a run or two at local builders, (using the term "builders," loosly.) and realized that you must remain constantly vigilant with these folks. Managing children isn't an easy task as you know from your teaching experience.

I had a home build here by Thai management, sic: and Burmese labor. Two stories typical western style house. I Had difficulty with the management as they were far brighter than I according to them, however through constant observation and demonstrations of "how to," they relented in almost every case I brought to their attention. The one area in which they failed miserable was my seperate roof line for the kitchen. No water seal or barrier between the main structure and the add-on kitchen structure. It took them 3 different assemble and demo's to get it right. All at their expense. wiring has been a problem over the years, but I've sorted it out for less than 5,000 Baht.

My home is now over 6 years old and solid as a rock. My point being that use of Thai/Burmese labor can be an effective way to go if you follow the work closely and not super critically.

My wife's family is starting a build in the far north this month and they dug pile holes about 1 meter deep and use Tree piles not concrete. Expensive but effective. Interestingly enough no concrete was used to set the piles after erection. Only back-fill with the excavated soil. I personally would pour concrete into those holes as well as dig interconnecting footings. they get earthquakes in that region.

I have more but have to go for now. Good luck Boo I think its a great idea and you gotta trust someone a little. F-Inlaw is a doer and you can coach him I think and if not get subtle and force the issue.

^^ could be a possibility

my niece (no pics) built a house for her parents in the village, quite nice and well fitted, about the same size, for B600K

Originally Posted by Thetyim

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

the dad has already said that he won't be sticking to them

Then get rid of the AH.
It's your money and your house so have what you want, not what he wants to build

I agree. I had a builder with the same thoughts. He was gone the first time he didn't do as I wanted. No arguing. Just pack your shit and leave. My money, I'll spend it as I want. If any advise here is don't try to please your family. Please your self. BTW, I had 5 builders before I found one that did it exactly as I wanted. He will always do any work I want done. So, they are out there, just be careful.

^^ yeah, that's about how much it should cost

they are planning to spend the rest on a new pickup truck, or better, booze and cards

Originally Posted by tsicar

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

So, I've decided to build a smallish home; to be used as a base for the missus and her mother, and I'll come at the weekends. It'll be set amongst friendly relatives (and they are friendly ) on the missus' land.

The idea is that if I drop dead or fuk off, she has a nice place to live, amongst her family - she's close to her dad, etc. The dad has built several houses and lived in the area all his life, so he'll take a few months off work and be the foreman. He is as good as gold, watches every penny and is very trustworthy.

I will start the build in late January and probably take 3 - 4 months - well, that's the plan. So, any advice from members at this stage would be much appreciated.

The initial plan was to spend 600k, but this may already be climbing; the dad reckons closer to a million for what we want... As a basis, I've taken one of DD's plans, below:





But, for starters, I want it raised by a floor. So we'll have 3 bedrooms, a bathroom and study upstairs. Where the car is in the pic above should be a little upstairs terrace (maybe with an exterior stairway leading down).

Downstairs would be half open. Enclosed would be a kitchen, a store area and a toilet. Half enclosed would be a breakfast area and Thai kitchen...

Along one side would be an overhang that would cover a car port and utility area.

I'm also fancying a solar panel for the lecci and a solar heating system for the water, as per DrA's thread. But the missus and the dad went all Thai when i introduced these ideas.

After first chats, the dad reckons that the construction material would be about 400k, and the labour costs would be similar. He's saying that ready made concrete pillings are much cheaper, but may not be okay for this job.

We have not left any land to settle, so we will need to dig down - now, this is an area I'm a bit worried about... The dad says that the ground is very strong (he says it's like digging through stone), so they only need to drive down pillings to half a metre. Is this right?

Next steps:

1) I'm gonna meet up with an architect friend of mine and get some exact plans sorted out - the dad has already said that he won't be sticking to them... (He said it in a nice way...).

2) Wait for thoughts from the members here.

Well, any advice?

what you just described is a recipe for fukkn disaster!

village thais know FUKNOTHING about building, and won't/cant read a proper plan.
THE DANGER SIGNS ARE ALREADY THERE:

the family have already decided how they are going to spend your money and will follow THEIR ideas, not yours. (they already said as much!
while many of them are capable of knocking up a reasonable looking thai shack, they are not capable of/ will not do any of the work properly- only the thai way (the fuktup, stubborn easy way)

the concrete will be mixed with a jawb (hoe kinda thing, coz they are too weak to use a proper spade, and can't use a concrete mixer.)
because the hoe thing is only good for stirring, the strength of the concrete will be compromised by the addition of far too much water, so that some scrawny little prick will be able to stir it and then another scrawny little prick will work it with an aluminium bar so that it is all nice and shiny and smooth on top but by now the concrete has seperated into three layers: cement (the glue to hold all the stuff together) all on top, with a layer of plastersand (yes. plastersand- the WRONG sand to use in concrete), in the middle, and the stone (the stuff which gives the concrete it's strength) at the bottom.
that's just the floorslab!
concrete for the footings will be the same weak sloppy mix.
now , after the precast pillars have been set in the ground (the first one needing a fat buddhist ceremony with a bunch of queers in orange-coloured dresses mumbling and chanting and being shown respect and made donations to ),
the "brickwork" will go up:

concrete?! blocks will be stacked between the pillars, being attatched to the pillars by concrete nails knocked in a millimetre or so into the pillars to keep them there (the pillars i have seen are drilled so that you can run a piece of steel between the courses of the shit "bricks" but they won't do this.
well, so it will carry on until they get to the roof (the biggest disaster area mainly)
a ridgebeam construction will be used (nothing wrong if you know how to stress it all and make it properly, but they don't)
well, if all goes well, you will get it all up and then they will get another local expert to do the tiling.
fuk!
the prick will not own a notched trowell, will not start tiling from the centre of the room and he will not leave an expansion joint between the tiles (thais are far too clever for that shit!)
ok, now comes the electrical part:

fuk.
fuk-ditty fukfuk.- fukfuk!
they will run 10 amp cable from the meter to the house and then fit a 60 amp fuse between them and the house wiring.
there will be no earth leakage protection and live and neutral wires will all be the same colour throughout, or vary multicoloured if you are lucky!
no conduit pipe will be used- the wires will be run very neatly down the walls and nailed on with pretty little saddles.
the wires will all be the same thickness with no regard to how many amps each circuit will draw, so an electric water heater will be wired with the same shit as a circuit that will power a flourescent light fitting.
...and there will be pigtail joints with insulation tape all over the place, joining different coloured wires together.
...it will all probably work as well, for a while, too!
this is all legal in thailand, it seems.

i'm not even going to start rattling on about the plumbing: by now you should have started getting the idea.

everybody hired to do the work will be a family member or one of their layabout friends irrespective of their ability/experience/work ethic and they will all be overpaid and will expect a free pissup after each "workday", which means in thai: any day when there isn't a party/pissup within a 30km radius of your build!

you will not be allowed to question or criticise any of the decisions or work done, because you know fuknothing and the thais have built millions of houses and they all know more than you and there will be BIG shit in your relationship if you dare to go down this path.

i don't know where you will be building,(prices vary according to location), so i cant say whether you are paying too much for the build, but from past experience i can only say this:
considering the quality of the labour you will be using, you are being done for that part of it
you will also not be allowed to work out quantities and shop for prices at different suppliers because you are a stoopid farang who can't speak thai and will just get ripped off (partly true), and will be forced to open an account at a local "trustworthy" hardware, who will overcharge and cheat on quantities and collect the money and supply all the invoices... and then pay the family member who negotiated the rip-off a fat kickback on completion of the job.

if you are not present to supervise and know nothing about building, this is the worst possible way to build a house.

the second worst possible way to build a house in thailand is to use a "professional builder" (yes, they have them! REAL ONES- with university degrees and all) and THEY will hire the shit local labour and fuck it up the same way but at least you can agree on a price beforehand and make them stick to it and they will give you a guarantee which isn't worth fukkall anyway.

sorry, mate but those are your choices.

you could get lucky (a few others have), but getting pappa and brother and cousin and all involved will be the biggest fukkup you will make in your life.





good luck!

Couldn't have said it better myself. Spot on.

Originally Posted by can123

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

We have not left any land to settle, so we will need to dig down - now, this is an area I'm a bit worried about... The dad says that the ground is very strong (he says it's like digging through stone), so they only need to drive down pillings to half a metre. Is this right?

No, it is not right. The good thing is that you appear to have sound ground on which to build. You should have foundations nearer one metre deep so as to be certain that the house will be sound. Some extra work in digging the hard soil will be worthwhile.

In another post you mention buildings "sideways" and this is very sensible especially given the large area of the site. I have studied a little because I had considered building a house in Thailand myself and I didn't want to be ripped off by paying for an inferior build.

As a common sense example : In the UK a garden wall, 42 inches high, would ordinarily sit on footings which were the same depth as your father in law says is suitable for a house ( bungalow ). It stands to reason that single storey dwellings in the UK usually have footings which are just over a metre deep. A house built in Thailand should be the same. If you screw up the foundation, it will be a disaster.
Your house will look nice even with with no footings at all but this will be no comfort when the bloody thing falls down.

If you start wrong, it all will be wrong. The last builder I hired was the ONLY one out of 6 builders that even owned a level. That alone should tell you something. The others idea of a plumbob was a steel nut tied on a string. That should also tell you about the quality of workmanship in Thailand.

TSicar has alot of valid points

The combination of you not knowing anything about building and using relatives to build is a guarantee for cost over-runs so be prepared

You would be better off building a large rectangle with high ceilings

Any cutouts for carports etc increase the cost and lessen the usable living area

The roof is a major concern and cost

99.9% of the roofs I have seen in Thailand are over-engineering and cost 3 times more than they should.

With no concern for tornadoes or hurricanes or cyclones, the roof is basically there to keep water out. There is no need to over-structuralize this to withstand 300km wind in Thailand

Thai PVC piping in my opinion should always have access, whether out in the open or behind a removable panel. One poster had it right, sooner or later the pvc breaks and you have all hell breaking loose knocking down a wall to get access

If you plan to use aircon, check the amperage of the electric meter. The standard meter is often 5 amp only. Would have to bump this up to the 15 amp if you plan to run a large or 2 small air cons at the same time

ELECTRIC OUTLETS - Thai's are famous for not installing enough outlets. You will find out where you want your TV for example, the one outlet they installed in on the other side of the room. Make sure you carefully plan out where ALL the electrical outlets should be. These are very cheap and do not increase the cost.

Electrical circuit breaker box should have enough room to grow, meaning that you should have extra amp capacity and space for new breakers if you decide to add on in the future. It is easier to do it now than later

Make sure the foreman owns a level, because the last thing you want to see is your house built and the supports and walls are not straight.

Doing it the only way your father in law knows best is not the only way. As the funder of this project you need to have some common sense, do your own research, come up with a plan and have him build to it

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

So, I've decided to build a smallish home; to be used as a base for the missus and her mother

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

on the missus' land.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

It'll be set amongst friendly relatives

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The dad has built several houses and lived in the area all his life, so he'll take a few months off work and be the foreman

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

she's close to her dad

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

He isn't educated or trained

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I'm gonna meet up with an architect friend of mine and get some exact plans sorted out - the dad has already said that he won't be sticking to them.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I mentioned to the missus "We're gonna have to take care with the electricity, pay a bit more and get an expert

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

She said: "Don't worry, my dad's brother has worked for the government electricty board for 20 years, reading meters, he can do it..."

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The missus just said that she don't like Ford, and doesn't want to change the Honda City to a Ford Ranger. I told her it comes in pairs or not at all: house and Ranger or nothing and nothing... I think, for the first time in nearly 10 years, I may have won an argument.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Well, any advice?

Only one piece,make sure you go up there every weekend and take pics and log it on here, or maybe we have a retired TD'er with time on his hands to pop around on a daily basis

I can see pure Comedy Gold in this thread

I built my house to US standards. Which means, All electricial wiring is under ground to the pole, the wiring from the pole is OO, wires inside the wall are all #8 w/ground in condiut, all outlets and switches are grounded, all plumbing is inside the wall, all exterror walls and the ceiling are insulated, footers are 1Mx1m with #4 rebar, columns are 8-#4 rebar, etc. Yes, it may have cost me a little more, but no problems through out my life time and I'm sure my wife's too. Do it right. If you build according to your country's codes, you won't have a problem later. The cost to do it right is minimal. Good luck.

if you were in a zoo, and you would see adorable little monkeys in their cage building their home in the tree with branches, would you expect visitors and keepers ask them to build the zoo and other facilities ? of course not, absolutely ridiculous