How do you equal a £15000 cd player for sound?

**Jesus Jones** · 02-12-2008, 09:34 PM

Actually, what the OP has said is quite true. I ran a High End audio business in the UK for 10 years, and sold manufacturer names such as Chord Electronics, Wilson Benesch, Martin Logan to mention a few. However my business eventually went in the direction of Multi-room audio and smart home technology, as high end audio was on the decline. I don't now anything about Mac, but specialised in a product called Netstreams, and although expensive; it basically stransfered audio around the home bit for bit with no loss of audio. And although analytically there may be a difference, there certainly wasn't any audiably. This kit also transfered audio via cat 5 and Cat 6 with no loss. Each piece of audio equipment had an IP address and was completely digital all the way up to the speaker drive units, unlike a conventional audio system with is analogue once the signal leaves the amp.

This kit would set you back around 4K per room, and the last time i used it was 4 years ago and the prices have dropped considerably.

Some of my customers spent 11,000 pounds per metre on speaker cables purely because they felt they had to. One of my customers spent over 100k on a system. It sounded great, but it sounded no better than my system which at the time cost me 10k at trade value, which i eventually changed to a digital multi-room system by Netsreams. The Netsreams sounded great wherever you went, and not just while sitting infront of a pair of high end speaker to obtain the best sound.

**Marmite the Dog** · 02-12-2008, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by koogook

Any decent cd transport (and obviously because its a transport would generally mean its high end and so expensive or more so then what ive suggested) or if you mean cdplayer digital ouput then you're missing the point about having your entiire music collection at your finger tips with it being froma pc server!

But you still need the original CDs or a direct digital copy of the CD to enjoy the sound benefits.

**koogook** · 02-12-2008, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by koogook

Any decent cd transport (and obviously because its a transport would generally mean its high end and so expensive or more so then what ive suggested) or if you mean cdplayer digital ouput then you're missing the point about having your entiire music collection at your finger tips with it being froma pc server!

But you still need the original CDs or a direct digital copy of the CD to enjoy the sound benefits.

yes of course and no......you can download hi res music, and you can rip all your cd's to hdd so that you dont have to find z cd and then put it in and play you can just browse and play and enjoy more easily!

king willy i dont understand my audience and you dont have anything to say thats relevant so what?

**Jesus Jones** · 02-12-2008, 09:54 PM

NetStreams - The Ultimate IP A/V Experience

Living Control : Welcome

**koogook** · 02-12-2008, 09:59 PM

cheers marmite and jesus for adding something constructive, i am serious to the benefits of this setup! The speakers can be made to order though i think the DIY option is going to be far more interesting and fun! Now ive got music sorted the next headache is video high def bluray and all that other crap.......oh well one step at a time!!!!!!!

**Butterfly** · 03-12-2008, 08:09 PM

Macs are for fags, next

But your are quite right about the Mac mini being a cheap hi end multimedia solution, thinking of buying one myself

**Wallalai** · 03-12-2008, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Macs are for fags, next

Could you be kind enough to develop plz ? Feel free to launch another thread and bring some solid arguments.

**melvbot** · 03-12-2008, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Macs are for fags

Originally Posted by Butterfly

thinking of buying one myself

You get used to BF being confused about stuff like which computer he really wants deep down and liking men in dresses and stuff.

I get the argument about the high end sound now but its still pretty expensive to achieve. If it was closer to £500 I'd be sold.

**Wallalai** · 03-12-2008, 09:20 PM

Anyway, I'm confused about this thread's title. 15000 pounds for a CD player...

**koogook** · 04-12-2008, 12:04 AM

yes, 15000 £ for a cdplayer and to achieve its equivocal sound for less use an old pc or mac and output through digital usb or firewire to a DAC and then your amp and speakers!

You can do it for 500 quid, for instance the computer your using now is probaly more then adequate, output through digital cable into the cambridge audio dacmagic £200 into some £300 active speakers.

remember that you need to copy your cd/s through a software like EAC it can be done with itunes but EAC will let you know if the copy is bitperfect!

the sound that was comparable to the naim audio 15000 quid cdplayer was a 450 quid dac(lavry da10) from a mac mini, to amplification and speakers.

last but not least i would hold out on the mac mini purchase, i have heard rumours that they are doing somethng with it, as there havent been any serious upgrades in the last 2-3 years so i woul wait until the coming year and then either buy a cheaper old version or a new spangled upgrade!!!!!

hope its more clear.......

**melvbot** · 04-12-2008, 12:09 AM

I used to get all my stuff from Richer Sounds

CAMBRIDGE AUDIO DACMAGIC-08-BLK at Richer Sounds - HI-FI Separates, Home Cinema, Speakers, MP3 DVD Portables, Plasma LCD, etc.

NAD CD player, Cambridge A1 amp and a set of Sonata bookshelfs on stands, great sound for the price (£200 the lot I think)

**koogook** · 04-12-2008, 12:42 AM

ive got that beat...........i used to work at richer sounds!!!!!!!

**Camel Toe** · 04-12-2008, 01:26 AM

I know something about music quality and my hearing is exceptional. The sound source, tapehead, stylus, whatever should be where your money is spent .. shit in shit out as they say, or why amplify shit?

You've covered the middle of the music's journey through the player and processing well enough. The speakers are the weak link. As for headphone, they get more comfortable in high price ranges. The comfort (ergonomics) factor increases with a higher degree of quality than the speakerettes within them, a matter of diminishing return. Room speakers is where the problems are, the weak link.

Poor room acoustics can disarm a good speaker, an average quality speaker will sound slightly better with ideal room acoustics. Who us have studio quality living rooms?

The point being, unless you fulfill all the variables necessary to hear music at its best, why even bother trying if you have one weak link anywhere in your system? The available up-grades never cease. If you're not ready or financially able to keep up with all the best, all the latest equipment and technology, why even bother joining the race? And unless you have room speakers and the right room acoustics to show your shit off, who but you is going to appreciate it?

**koogook** · 04-12-2008, 01:15 PM

In one way yes your ethos on why go so far to be baffled by something else has meaning! I wouldnt say that its strictly applicable to the point of giving up entirely in the first place, just realizing your limit maybe????

Whats the point in buying a car that goes fast when you have speed limits, it makes you feel good, performance perception looking cool dear i say it!

I think if you enjoy music computers give you that ease of getting back to listening to your collection more wholesomely, but also finding the most direct and smallest footprint of products to reach an equated sound of something more expensive.......seems to show that if anything it can be done and by yourself through gaining knowledge about what it is you want from it!

There is a quote i got from an audiophile that said he was actually most happiest listening to his music in the car, the sense of open roads and freedom he felt was heightened by the music. I think this speaks volumes.

However when all is said and done we are most of us consumers, and that is what we do best........

I think the option for diy speakers also adds an element of acheivement in makng something and taking part in the proccess, maybe its just me!

**Butterfly** · 04-12-2008, 01:37 PM

what about the brain ? can it process that kind of sound quality ?

**Jesus Jones** · 04-12-2008, 02:10 PM

The front end was the most important thing, stylus, transport or whatever certainly a few years ago. Technology has moved on for sure, and without a doubt you can obtain a good sound digitally at a much cheaper price.

The speakers I owned in 1999 were Wilson Benesch Act One, they cost at the time 6500 uk pounds, i had a transport to match which was a micromega solo, and a later a Teac P1. In 2003 my business went in the direction of smart home technology, and I eventually used Speakercraft High end in-wall which cost 800 uk pounds a pair, fed with a hard drive cd player. In my opinion this setup sounded better, it was certainly a more enjoyable sound a far less analytical.

I have had some serious kit in the past, and the problem with this stuff is you end up listening to the system finding faults, rather than enjoying the music.

And without a doubt, room acoustics is a major factor, which makes custom installation in my opinion a better option, especially when the living environment these days is based in the minimalist approach.

As for the brain processing the information.

well really it's also about the sound stage the system produces and the harmonics. There are plenty of systems that have the detail, but they can not produce the sound stage. People also confuse bass with depth. If you hear a top notch system, the low end is completely different to a system kicking out artificial thumping bass.

**Camel Toe** · 04-12-2008, 02:25 PM

I have had some serious kit in the past, and the problem with this stuff is you end up listening to the system finding faults, rather than enjoying the music.

Ain't that the truth! Another thing is that it always seems your friend's stereo sounds better than yours.

THE best stereo I've ever heard was in my tec mate's soft living room, rugs and curtains everywhere. It had one 10" sub-woofer driven by a Mac 40-watt valve mono amp. The satellite speakers he designed himself. They were semi-full-range 3" ers mounted in one-quart-size milk cartons.

**LSNEED** · 05-12-2008, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by koogook

no offloading info for people with pc's to get high functioning hi fidelity sound and enjoyment of music for a low cost!!!!!!

if you want i can sell you something..........?

Thanks, but no Thanks; if I wanted something like this I would research it and buy it on the internet, sounds like your markup may be a tad high.

If you had left out the BS about selling it to us, maybe we could overlook the rest of your posts.

**baldrick** · 07-12-2008, 10:13 AM

what is it with techno felchers and their pseudo claims about electronics.

unless you understand DAC's ( and the ADC that converted in the first place ) to a transistor and clock transition stage level you are just babbling sales speak and should just be buying based on your perception of the end result.

serious ADC/DAC work is done with instrumentation grade opamps. fcuking digital - real electronics experts understand analog.

and get off my lawn

**benlovesnuk** · 07-12-2008, 10:08 PM

what kind of person spends that much on a piece of electronics...????

**koogook** · 07-12-2008, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by LSNEED

Originally Posted by koogook

no offloading info for people with pc's to get high functioning hi fidelity sound and enjoyment of music for a low cost!!!!!!

if you want i can sell you something..........?

Thanks, but no Thanks; if I wanted something like this I would research it and buy it on the internet, sounds like your markup may be a tad high.

If you had left out the BS about selling it to us, maybe we could overlook the rest of your posts.

If i wanted you to tell me something i'll ask next time then......The research you would have done would have come up short, there is no mark up im not selling anything you ingrate!!!!!!!!!!!!

**koogook** · 07-12-2008, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by baldrick

what is it with techno felchers and their pseudo claims about electronics.

unless you understand DAC's ( and the ADC that converted in the first place ) to a transistor and clock transition stage level you are just babbling sales speak and should just be buying based on your perception of the end result.

serious ADC/DAC work is done with instrumentation grade opamps. fcuking digital - real electronics experts understand analog.

and get off my lawn

What is it with engineers who claim that there cant possibly be any sound difference because of the science that they respectfully know to hold to someones individual subjective tastes. Some people think that power cables make a difference even some studio engineers like the one's who use pink floyds studio!!! I said to you as has been claimed by studio engineers and designed and made for that specific use, and now also integrated into a more consumerist market thanks to pc's! The logic, subjectivity and the science all support as i have claimed those that want to take it for what it is can the other's who want to create a hypertension abut my supposed info can, i really dont care to keep on explaining!

It is a pc with bit perfect copies throughput into a dac to contorl jitter because its coming from a PC, to then send out from analog to some active speakers or a system. the price can vary and will match at the top end a 15000 pound cd player for 3500 grand, or improve the sound if following this similar approach. no specific brand or deal just solid information collected from many and expressed on many and now this....i would spend this type of money because i enjoy music!

That was harder then it ever had to be miserable fu23231kin knuts

**kingwilly** · 07-12-2008, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by LSNEED

Thanks, but no Thanks; if I wanted something like this I would research it and buy it on the internet, sounds like your markup may be a tad high. If you had left out the BS about selling it to us, maybe we could overlook the rest of your posts.

yup,

exactly.

same same a cheap used car salesman.

**Marmite the Dog** · 07-12-2008, 10:33 PM

I'll let the pent-up frustration come out for a few more posts before they get trashed again.

Try wanking. It works for fat Danish blokes.

**melvbot** · 07-12-2008, 10:35 PM

Sounds to me like hes just giving advice, he hasnt tried to sell anything. As far as I can tell he's just giving a way of getting a higher quality sound from a computer. I f you dont need the info then why bother flaming?

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