Thread: LINUX

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Ubuntu's OK. It supports a fair chunk of legacy hardware and it's a reasonable distro on which to cut your teeth. Once you get a feel for it, you can progress to better builds that need a little more understanding.

Not sure you would need a different Linux distro Harry...you can just install the packages you need that Ubuntu doesn't have as default. (Putting them in /opt of course to show they are not part of the distro)

please don't confuse baldrick

Originally Posted by DrB0b

To install software use a package manager, standard on all distros

package manager are for pussies,

real men use ftp to download their source, untar and run ./configure with all the right parameters

DrB why are you such a poof ? next you are going to tell me that you use Github for all your code sources

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

real men

If that's not an oxymoron I'm a penguin.

0000001000101011

Originally Posted by david44

0000001000101011

Glad you find it funny

Answers please buTTers..................

Originally Posted by crackerjack101

Answers please buTTers..................

Give him a moment

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Unless you were compiling from source that would make no sense. Even if you are compiling from source it makes no sense. To install software use a package manager, standard on all distros.

I think t is useful if you are installing packages or software not supported by Canonical and not written by yourself. You could put them in /usr/local but I prefer /opt. Call me a dinosaur if you will.

The point is I don't think Ubuntu is lacking anything that would require installing a different distro but you may need to add packages/software that are not part of the default distro.

Originally Posted by Troy

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Unless you were compiling from source that would make no sense. Even if you are compiling from source it makes no sense. To install software use a package manager, standard on all distros.

I think t is useful if you are installing packages or software not supported by Canonical and not written by yourself. You could put them in /usr/local but I prefer /opt. Call me a dinosaur if you will.

The point is I don't think Ubuntu is lacking anything that would require installing a different distro but you may need to add packages/software that are not part of the default distro.

Your point is correct but your idea that you can just drop packages in /opt or /usr/local is not. A Dinosaur or not 99% of the time that just wouldn't work.

A package manager will put the packages in the right place, that's what it's for. Nor does a package manager just add packages provided by the distributor, Canonical in Ubuntu's case. Package manager's can be, and almost always are, configured to use external repositories. That is the proper way to add software.

Let me put it to you another way. How do you think dropping packages into /opt or /usr/local/ would work? How would it be done?

Originally Posted by DrB0b

How do you think dropping packages into /opt or /usr/local/ would work?

As an example, I downloaded and installed eclipse into /opt. This was before the apt-get eclipse-platform was available.

Ditto for chrome.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by crackerjack101

Answers please buTTers..................

Give him a moment

As time drifts slowly by....................

Originally Posted by Troy

Originally Posted by DrB0b

How do you think dropping packages into /opt or /usr/local/ would work?

As an example, I downloaded and installed eclipse into /opt. This was before the apt-get eclipse-platform was available.

Ditto for chrome.

That's because packages were built to install them into /opt or everything they require to run is in a self-contained directory tree containing pre-compiled binaries and their supporting libraries. Packages which were compiled for specific distributions. YOU didn't install them into /opt, they were self installing packages which installed into appropriate locations when ./install.sh or whatever was run or they were tarred-up directory trees. Packages like that, even if not immediately obvious come with installation scripts and pre-compiled binaries for the installation you're installing to. The binaries are often either statically linked or the shared libraries they require will also be installed as part of the installation procedure.


This is not usual in the current Linux world, it is not the same as just dropping something into /opt, and not many packages install in this way. My question might not have been very clear. Let me put it another way. As you use eclipse I'll hazard a guess that you do some coding. Say you need a git installation on your workstation but there is no precompiled package for it. Without going through the compilation routine how would you get a copy of git onto that box.

If you did compile it how would you deal with upgrades as time went on? How would you deal with dependencies? How would you deal with that taking into account that time is money?



I guess all that verbiage I just wrote boils down to "what would you do in the pretty standard case that there is no pre-compiled package for the software you need?"

It looks like Buttplug's bluff has been well and truly called. He can only bullshit so much crap he's feverishly copying off the web before it becomes apparent he hasn't got a fucking clue what he's on about.

Fortran.

God that brings back memories of college I'd long since buried.

And huge piles of punched cards.

^ My first software editor:



...and people moan about vi...

Originally Posted by Troy

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Say you need a git installation on your workstation but there is no precompiled package for it. Without going through the compilation routine how would you get a copy of git onto that box.

I guess by no precompiled package you mean no debian package that can be obtained through apt....rather than source which would have to be compiled...

So I have an executable and have it from a reliable source and have checksum verified. I can then drop it into /temp and then change the install script to have it install into /opt/<new app> which will have all the supporting directories below it. Or if it is a tarball without requiring any install then I can just cp it into /opt and untar.

Updates? I am waiting for a debian apt-get install, which will make everything easy. In the meantime I use what I have and check for updates as and when i feel like. The idea that I need the latest and greatest all the time is simply rubbish. After all I am still using v98 professionally rather than c11....and ada-95 rather than ada-2012 and fortran-77 instead of fortran-90 or whatever the latest is. Perl 5.8 with tk rather than 6 without it and python 2.7 or 3.x and mentally adjust to suit.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

That's because packages were built to install them into /opt.

True for google/chrome but not for eclipse

OK then, "/opt or any other specified directory or path". Sheesh, I thought that would have been obvious!

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Fortran.

God that brings back memories of college I'd long since buried.

And huge piles of punched cards.

Don't complain. They were great roach material. Try skinning up with an SSD.

Originally Posted by Troy

^ My first software editor:



...and people moan about vi...

You are Ada Lovelace and I claim my 4 Shillings and Eightpence!

Originally Posted by DrB0b

OK then, "/opt or any other specified directory or path". Sheesh, I thought that would have been obvious!

Except /opt used to be the preferred directory. However, you made me read up a bit on how things are in free linux distros and the standard procedure is to use package managers wherever possible and let them handle the install mechanism. You are correct and for anyone learning, this should be adopted in the first instance.

When it comes to commercial distribution and for professional use then things get a little more complicated. The distro may use compilers and applications that are not in line with current software or Custoemr requirements. In these cases the older/newer versions should always go into a separate directory so they are not confused with the distro. The standard for this was always /opt and I have a separate partition for this directory.

It allows a reinstall of the basic distro and then a drop of the backup of /opt and /home directories to get you back up to speed quickly in the event of a hard disk failure.

Apologies if I confused or upset anyone with my total lack of ability in communicating my thoughts. It comes with having used one of those X-Y machines....

^^ I did progress, moving swiftly to a teletype terminal, complete with punch tape and modem connection...similar to:



I managed to kill the mainframe at GCHQ one Friday afternoon from Cheltenham GS....The first time I killed a machine with a bit of crap code but definitely not the last. Luckily the crap code is not generated quite so often as it once was....

Apologies for the thread drift....