Thread: torture

i wonder how this guy feels about waterboarding, attack dogs, being smeared with feces, and being forced to remain in stress positions for countless hours.

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. soldier in Baghdad was reported missing late Monday, and residents said American forces sealed the central Karadah district and were conducting door-to-door searches.

U.S. soldier still missing in Baghdad - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

if this guy has been captured by insurgents, and they make the regrettable decision that it is necessary to torture him, i hope they videotape it. i doubt the US media would air it, but it would still help to wake up the american public about the torture that is being committed in their name.

and let's not forget what the attorney general of the US had to say about torture a few years ago....

In January, 2002, Alberto Gonzales, then the White House counsel (he is now the Attorney General), sent a memo to President Bush arguing for a “new paradigm” of interrogation, declaring that the war on terror “renders obsolete” the “strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners” required by the Geneva conventions, which were ratified by the United States in 1955. That August, the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, which acts as an in-house law firm for the executive branch, issued a memo secretly authorizing the C.I.A. to inflict pain and suffering on detainees during interrogations, up to the level caused by “organ failure.”

The New Yorker: Fact


does anyone think that this type of barbarity is going to help win 'hearts and minds' or anything for that matter? with a shortsighted policy has the US ceded the moral high ground?

is the US any better than the 'terrorists' if they can hold people without charging them, or without trying them in an open court, and all the while torture them to the edge of organ failure?

just a few weeks ago, bush had this to say in a press conference....

If there's any comparison between the compassion and decency of the American people and the terrorist tactics of extremists, it's flawed logic. I simply can't accept that. It's unacceptable to think that there's any kind of comparison between the behavior of the United States of America and the action of Islamic extremists

Press Conference of the President

unacceptable?

in a couple of weeks, maybe the guy noted in the first link will have an opinion on the topic....but in the meantime, what do you think?

I think the guy captured will plead to be waterboarded when they'll turn on the electric drill and point to his groin, or pull their knives to gorge his eyes out...

The American, who is of Iraqi descent may very well be tortured as a result of the recent American stance.

As sad as it might be if he's tortured.

He'll be just another statistic.

No man should be tortured. Torture is completely wrong and evil.

Next they'll come for the traitors and commies, those who live abroad to escape scrutiny, and post anti-American slogans anonymously on webboards - and who knows what they are up to in Thailand, have you ever travelled to the Islamist South, Mr. Milkman?

I agree.

Originally Posted by stroller

I think the guy captured will plead to be waterboarded when they'll turn on the electric drill and point to his groin, or pull their knives to gorge his eyes out...

I think I know a lot less about torture than Stroller appears to , but I will say that the world HAS changed since 1955.

Just last night there was a film on UBC about a "dirty bomb" being let off in central London. After apprehending one of the terrorists before he could blow up another bomb, he was tortured by being held under water for long periods. In the context of what had happened, it didn't seem particularly inappropriate.

The terrorists play dirty and use our freedoms against us. In order to get information out of captured terrorists I see no problem in administering drugs - preferably those that aren't permanently damaging, but I don't believe torture and pain are right, or effective. I pity any serviceman caught by the enemy nowadays. Perhaps we should issue them with suicide pills.

Do we only notice it more now because the power of the internet and 24/7 news bring such issues into our homes quicker and easier?

I'm sure these kinds of things have always been going on. It's just easier to get caught now.

Originally Posted by surasak

Do we only notice it more now because the power of the internet and 24/7 news bring such issues into our homes quicker and easier?

I'm sure these kinds of things have always been going on. It's just easier to get caught now.

Exactly

Originally Posted by surasak

Do we only notice it more now because the power of the internet and 24/7 news bring such issues into our homes quicker and easier?

I'm sure these kinds of things have always been going on. It's just easier to get caught now.

And cheap, light, portable video cameras help bring the "news" - or a photo-shopped version of it - to the masses.

Photoshop or false witness...not much difference is it?

Originally Posted by surasak

I'm sure these kinds of things have always been going on. It's just easier to get caught now.

Not sure, it could be some kind of magnetic effects. Without the cameras or the attention, nothing happened, with better coverage, it does.

In terms of statistics it's possible that we see more these days because there is more to see.

See the school shooting as a similar effect, does it happen every day ? no it doesn't, and yet when a story run, you can bet there would be more of it in the same week.

^ i think its a little bit of both.

better news coverage, but because of the increased media exposure copycats tend to increase....

WASHINGTON - The White House said Friday that Vice President Dick Cheney was not talking about a torture technique known as "water boarding" when he said dunking terrorism suspects in water during questioning was a "no-brainer."Human rights groups said Cheney's comments amounted to an endorsement of water boarding, in which the victim believes he is about to drown.
"You know as a matter of common sense that the vice president of the United States is not going to be talking about water boarding. Never would, never does, never will," presidential spokesman Tony Snow said. "You think Dick Cheney's going to slip up on something like this? No, come on."
In an interview Tuesday with WDAY of Fargo, N.D., Cheney was asked if "a dunk in water is a no-brainer if it can save lives."
The vice president replied, "Well, it's a no-brainer for me but for a while there I was criticized as being the vice president for torture. We don't torture. That's not what we're involved in."Peppered with questions about the remarks, Snow said Cheney did not interpret the question as referring to water boarding and the vice president did not make any comments about water boarding.

Snow: Cheney doesn't support 'water boarding' - Politics - MSNBC.com


cheney belongs in jail.

I think the only thing that is saving Bush from receiving a bullet in the head, is Cheney. Even Bush worst ennemies wouldn't want Cheney to replace Bush if he had to "disappear".

Originally Posted by raycarey

WASHINGTON - The White House said Friday that Vice President Dick Cheney was not talking about a torture technique known as "water boarding" when he said dunking terrorism suspects in water during questioning was a "no-brainer."Human rights groups said Cheney's comments amounted to an endorsement of water boarding, in which the victim believes he is about to drown.
"You know as a matter of common sense that the vice president of the United States is not going to be talking about water boarding. Never would, never does, never will," presidential spokesman Tony Snow said. "You think Dick Cheney's going to slip up on something like this? No, come on."
In an interview Tuesday with WDAY of Fargo, N.D., Cheney was asked if "a dunk in water is a no-brainer if it can save lives."
The vice president replied, "Well, it's a no-brainer for me but for a while there I was criticized as being the vice president for torture. We don't torture. That's not what we're involved in."Peppered with questions about the remarks, Snow said Cheney did not interpret the question as referring to water boarding and the vice president did not make any comments about water boarding.

Snow: Cheney doesn't support 'water boarding' - Politics - MSNBC.com


cheney belongs in jail.

So do I then. If a terrorist - in fact, if anybody - knew where a bomb was located that was going to kill lots of people, I would do whatever was necessary - including torture - to get that information out of him/her.

Better call 911 (999 in UK, 191 in Thailand).

The problem is not torture per se, but the scale of it.

Torturing a few criminals to save lives is acceptable

To implement a culture of torture on a large scale basis to all kind of prisoners, is however criminal. This is the core of the problem. The US is torturing innocent individuals on silly pretense because they have nothing else to turn to.

They are basically chasing Ghosts.

Originally Posted by raycarey

cheney belongs in jail.

I think you are the most deserving TELFer 'round here for a nice waterboarding session, ray...

Originally Posted by RDN

So do I then. If a terrorist - in fact, if anybody - knew where a bomb was located that was going to kill lots of people, I would do whatever was necessary - including torture - to get that information out of him/her.

somebody's been watching a few too many episodes of '24'.

if you're so anxious to do 'whatever is necessary', why don't you go to iraq and join the central front on the "war on terror" ?

torture is inhumane, and it isn't effective...unless of course the objective is losing the moral high ground.

What spurious trolling thread.
It is designed to give the idea that the USA is responsible for the atrocities.
It's been going on for centuries.
A little "water boarding" pales in comparison.
Nice try Ray, but no cigar!

Originally Posted by Butterfly

The problem is not torture per se, but the scale of it.

Torturing a few criminals to save lives is acceptable

To implement a culture of torture on a large scale basis to all kind of prisoners, is however criminal. This is the core of the problem. The US is torturing innocent individuals on silly pretense because they have nothing else to turn to.

They are basically chasing Ghosts.

Again you are almost making sense.
But there is not any evidence that suggests the USA engages in large scale torture.
Actually the evidence is much to the contrary.
The inmates at Quantanamo are virtually coddled and are getting fat.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

The inmates at Quantanamo are virtually coddled and are getting fat.

They are the exceptions, how about those Iraqis ? and that culture of acceptance that culture should be SOP ? it does feel a bit like the good Saddam era.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

It is designed to give the idea that the USA is responsible for the atrocities.

huh?

are you saying that the US is not responsible for the water boarding that is being committed by its representatives in the intelligence services?

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

It's been going on for centuries.

you're comparing the middle ages with 2006?
nice.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

A little "water boarding" pales in comparison.

well, i guess we're all not tough guys like you earl.....make that cyber-tough guys.

and if it really isn't a big deal, why is the administration running scared from this most recent story?

Water boarding is a little different than say inserting a funnel in someone's throat and then pouring in gasoline. Or slowly dipping someone into a vat of acid. Or feeding someone alive to some hungry dobermans. (all were favorites of Saddam Hussein)

Water boarding doesn't kill or permanently disfigure anyone. It is very uncomfortable but it's not torture. It's part of the training our many of out military personnel go through.
I don't make any silly claims about being tough.
My point is about how your participation here is very much troll-like.
I think you've made my point for me.