Thread: Waterboarding , Do You Think It Is Torture?

But, let me guess, you are from the UK? Where more Mussies have flooded into than you can handle.

Originally Posted by Texpat

waterboarding isn't torture.

oh, ok. that should end the debate in congress and the mods can lock the thread. thank god we have someone like you around to let us know how things 'really are'.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Don't try to change the subject.

how did i try to change the subject? if anyone did it was you.....posting a propaganda piece about some guy in a pool surrounded by scuba divers.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Just admit it's a bit of non-invasive titty-twisting to get a pig to squeal.

so you're up for it then? name the time and place, and we'll have TD get together.

Originally Posted by Texpat

You seem either soft or stupid, which is it?

ah....that didn't take long. how long til you label me a terrorist sympathizer?

Originally Posted by chitown

As I said, I am not in custody, and have no reason to be water boarded.

and as i said....what about the hundreds of people released from death row on DNA evidence? how many people were released from guantanamo years after being abducted?
who do you think is prosecuting this war? while you might consider them to be intelligent, honorable, and trustworthy....the evidence is to the contrary.

Originally Posted by chitown

let me guess, you are from the UK?

wrong.....again.

Or Europe maybe? Will the Americans have to bail you out again?????

in addition to the points i restated in post # 48....i'd also like to restate this one....what about the false positives that result from torture?

feel free to address them in any order you wish.

WASHINGTON - The CIA's waterboarding of a top al-Qaida figure was approved at the top levels of the U.S. government, a former CIA agent said Tuesday as agency director Gen. Michael Hayden prepared for questioning by congressional panels about the destruction of videotapes of terror suspect interrogations.

According to the former agent, waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah got him to talk in less than 35 seconds. The technique, which critics say is torture, probably disrupted "dozens" of planned al-Qaida attacks, said John Kiriakou, a leader of the team that captured Zubaydah, a major al-Qaida figure.
Kiriakou did not explain how he knew who approved the interrogation technique but said such approval comes from top officials.
"This isn't something done willy nilly. This isn't something where an agency officer just wakes up in the morning and decides he's going to carry out an enhanced technique on a prisoner," he said Tuesday on NBC's "Today" show. "This was a policy made at the White House, with concurrence from the National Security Council and Justice Department."
Each time CIA agents wished to use waterboarding or any other harsh interrogation technique, they had to present a "well-laid out, well-thought out reason" to top government officials, Kiriakou said. In Zubaydah's case, Kiriakou said the waterboarding had immediate effect.
"The next day, he told his interrogator that Allah had visited him in his cell during the night and told him to cooperate," Kiriakou said in an interview first broadcast Monday evening on ABC News' World News. "From that day on, he answered every question. The threat information he provided disrupted a number of attacks, maybe dozens of attacks."
Details of Zubaydah's interrogation came as Hayden prepared for two days of questioning by the Senate and House intelligence panels about the CIA's destruction of the videotapes. Both are closed sessions.
Kiriakou said he did not know the interrogation of Zubaydah was being recorded by the CIA and did not know the tapes subsequently were destroyed.
"Like a lot of Americans, I'm involved in this internal, intellectual battle with myself weighing the idea that waterboarding may be torture versus the quality of information that we often get after using the waterboarding technique," Kiriakou, now retired from the CIA, told ABC News. "And I struggle with it."
He added: "What happens if we don't waterboard a person and we don't get that nugget of information and there's an attack. I would have trouble forgiving myself. ... At the time, I felt that waterboarding was something that we needed to do."
Waterboarding is a harsh interrogation technique that involves strapping down a prisoner, covering his mouth with plastic or cloth and pouring water over his face. The prisoner quickly begins to inhale water, causing the sensation of drowning.
Hayden told CIA employees last week that the CIA taped the interrogations of two alleged terrorists in 2002. He said the harsh questioning was carried out only after being "reviewed and approved by the Department of Justice and by other elements of the Executive Branch." Hayden said Congress was notified in 2003 both of the tapes' existence and the agency's intent to destroy them.
The White House refuses to talk about specific types of interrogation techniques but insists that the United States does not torture.
The CIA destroyed the tapes in November of 2005. Exactly when Congress was notified and in what detail is in dispute.
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., said the CIA claims it told the committee of the tapes' destruction at a hearing in November 2006. Rockefeller said, however, that the hearing transcript found no mention of that subject.
The House committee first learned the tapes had been destroyed in March 2007, according to Committee Chairman Rep. Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas.
In last week's message, Hayden told CIA employees that "the leaders of our oversight committees in Congress were informed of the videos years ago and of the Agency's intention to dispose of the material. Our oversight committees also have been told that the videos were, in fact, destroyed."
But Reyes said Monday that Hayden's claim that Congress was properly notified "does not appear to be true

^ Do the Mussies adhere to the Geneva Convention?????

Originally Posted by chitown

^ Do the Mussies adhere to the Geneva Convention?????

No they sure don't. They sneak around convincing their women and children to blow themselves up in the name of Allah, hijack airplanes and crash em into big buildings, beat their women for letting a stranger see their face, chop off heads, kill and maim innocent people and the list goes on. We're mad as hell and I'm not suggesting waterboarding compares with these atrocities but should we be following their example or should we with all our resources find a better way to keep our country safe from the rotten foks?

Originally Posted by Norton

find a better way

What do you suggest we do in the meantime?

Bet the folks in these cities don't have nearly the reservations you do:

Riyhad
New York
London
Madrid
Bali
Karachi
Baghdad
Manila

Originally Posted by chitown

Mussies

nice.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Riyhad New York London Madrid Bali Karachi Baghdad Manila

i would think that the majority of people in NYC are opposed water boarding. if there's a poll to the contrary, i'd love to see it. madrid and london as well.

Originally Posted by Texpat

What do you suggest we do in the meantime?

adhere to the geneva conventions.

What good is the moral high ground if you're dead?
What good is following unilateral, self-imposed rules if it's going to make you lose a conflict?

The objective isn't to defeat terrorism 51-49.

I love the way the arm-chair generals, living in countries that stand to gain as much as the US, sit back and play the shoulda-game. It's oh so easy to criticize, but nobody has a plan.

Originally Posted by Texpat

What do you suggest we do in the meantime?

Crap was afraid you'd ask that! Need to think on it some but I'm sure to come up with some hair brained solution. At the moment I'm leaning toward bribery. A lifetime supply of virgins and a condo in Palm Springs might be just the ticket.

^Yes, so easy to be a coward, to difficult to be a hero.

Originally Posted by Me

condo in Palm Springs might be just the ticket.

On second thought this may be considered torture under rules of the Geneva Convention. Will need a plan B.

Originally Posted by Texpat

What good is following unilateral, self-imposed rules if it's going to make you lose a conflict?

That's just it isn't USA took the low road, threatened the world to be "with us or agin us", and what have they won?
Over 2400 dead heros, countless thousands of civilians.
And why? WMD, blah blah.
What if GWB had stayed out of Iraq? One mad Saddam didn't kill as many people as this war has, and the threat to to the rest of world by radical muslims has grown.
OK you fight back, but if some dickhead millionaire can cause all this, and the USA has more millionaires than anyone else, why can't you beat him???
Torturing brainless terrorists will not the war, intelligence will - need I say more.
The very idea of implanting democracy into an Arab state doesn't exactly reek of intelligence to me.

Allright. US millionaires do not sit around all day thinking who they can kill next. They think about how they can create the next great thing in the world.

FFS, this is not about who's right. This is about who can create value, add value and create something that benefits mankind.

Let's think about it this way, shall we?

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Texpat

Riyhad New York London Madrid Bali Karachi Baghdad Manila

i would think that the majority of people in NYC are opposed water boarding. if there's a poll to the contrary, i'd love to see it. madrid and london as well.

Originally Posted by Texpat

What do you suggest we do in the meantime?

adhere to the geneva conventions.

Yeah the majority being the Mussies that have infiltrated New York, London and Madrid. London is close to being over run by Mussies. Due to the weak "open door" policy the UK has so cowardly aloowed for years.

I have enough friends that are Brits that have told me that the Uk has gone to the dogs due to ithe lax mmigration policies there.

On my last visit to the UK, I saw more Mussies than you can shake a stick at. Really pathetic, because eventually they will squeeze out enough Mussie babies that they will not have to bomb London......they will hold the majority vote.

More than 20 per cent of all births last year were to women from overseas an official report on the impact of migration revealed today. The study, by the Government's National Statistics body, shows that about 150,000 foreign-born women gave birth in Britain last year, or 21 per cent of all births.

21% of all babies born in Britain have foreign mothers | the Daily Mail

They already have all the jobs.

80% of new jobs have gone to migrants since Labour came to power | the Daily Mail

This country sucks

Originally Posted by chinthee

FFS, this is not about who's right. This is about who can create value, add value and create something that benefits mankind. Let's think about it this way, shall we?

Amen!!

Why the hell has the Government expended so much time and political capital on securing the release of the so-called "British residents" from Guantanamo Bay? They're not even British residents, just people who lived here for a while. The three heading "home" were actually resident in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Africa when they were arrested on terrorism charges.

If they were so relieved about finding sanctuary in Britain after claiming their lives were in danger, why didn't they stay here? One of them converted to Islam and moved to Pakistan after 9/11.

Another said he left Birmingham to look for work in Afghanistan. As you do.

What sort of lunatic thinks he stands more of a chance of finding a job in Taliban country than Tamworth? Unless he's a beheading specialist or skilled at pushing brick walls on adulterous women.

The soppy Sarah Teather (Lib-Dem MP for Brent East) worked herself up into a lather of selfrighteous indig-nation over the detention of her 'constituent', who is linked to Osama Bin Laden's European "ambassador".

He's not your constituent, pet. He's not even allowed to vote. And if he were, it would have to be a postal vote since he was in The Gambia when the Americans felt his collar. Since then, he's been "resident" at Camp Gitmo.

Why the hell should we care what happens to any of them? We've got enough home-grown Islamo-nutters of our own.

Now we're going to have to house them, feed them, ply them with benefits and spend a small fortune on round-the-clock surveillance. It's not as if the anti-terror boys haven't got anything better to do.

Meanwhile, stand by for the sickening, sympathetic newspaper and TV interviews with these heroes, pleading their innocence and bleating about how they have been tortured.

Better an engine driver than a Guardianista! | the Daily Mail

^ Excellent post S.O.

Love this -

"What sort of lunatic thinks he stands more of a chance of finding a job in Taliban country than Tamworth? Unless he's a beheading specialist or skilled at pushing brick walls on adulterous women."

Waterboarding , Do You...11-12-2007 11:02 PMxxxxWhere the fuk is Stroller now?