George Soros sells his gold

[Bangyai]

George Soros, the hedge fund investor who called gold "the ultimate bubble", has sold almost his entire holding of the precious metal, leading to fears that the price is about to fall.

George Soros sold most of his gold ETF holdings but bought shares in two mining companies Photo: Bloomberg News


The investor, famous for his £10bn bet against the Bank of England in 1992, made his "ultimate bubble" remark in January last year but acted to cut his holding only in the first quarter of this year.

Holding on has proved hugely profitable – in January 2010 gold was trading at about $1,100 an ounce, whereas the lowest price during the first three months of 2011 was more than $1,300. The highest was about $1,450.

It is not known exactly when Mr Soros sold his gold, which was held via the Soros Fund Management investment vehicle. Filings to the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), the American regulator, showed that he had sold 99pc of his holding in SPDR Gold Trust, an exchange-traded fund (ETF) backed by gold bullion, by the end of March.

The New York-based fund sold its entire holding in iShares Gold Trust, a similar investment. But Mr Soros bought shares in two mining companies, Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold and Goldcorp.

This may have been a smart move. "As the precious metals rally ends, you'll get transition toward related equities," James Dailey of Pennsylvania-based Team Financial Asset Management, told Bloomberg. "You don't see any speculative appetite for gold stocks yet."

The gold price fell slightly following the announcement that Mr Soros had sold his holdings.

Not all investors share his view. Paulson & Co, the US hedge fund run by John Paulson, left its holding in the SPDR Gold Trust unchanged, filings to the SEC showed. And Hal Lehr, a commodity trader at Deutsche Bank, was quoted by Bloomberg as saying: "I'm bullish on gold despite its current levels. It could reach $2,000 an ounce in the next eight months."
While gold ETF holdings fell by 3.3pc in the first quarter of the year, there is evidence that some of the proceeds were used to buy gold bullion directly.
Gold's bull run has been driven by its traditional status as a trusted store of value in times of economic turbulence. In particular, investors have worried that the policy of "quantitative easing" adopted by many central banks is devaluing paper currencies.
The metal's enthusiasts point out that, while the authorities can print unlimited amounts of sterling or American dollars, the supply of gold is finite.
More recently, the sovereign debt crisis in the eurozone has supported the gold price. But investors worried that gold is indeed a bubble may prefer to follow Mr Soros's example and sell. Betting against him can be expensive, as the Bank of England would agree.

George Soros sells his gold - Telegraph

[Bangyai]

Think he's got off a bit early. There are a few drops to be wrung out of the gold lemon yet. Still, if you're rich no point worring. Better safe than sorry.

[Butterfly]

didn't I told socal that Soros would sell eventually in a NY minute ?

I guess thanks the SEC filling, it's still time to act and sell it all

[OhOh]

didn't I told socal that Soros would sell eventually in a NY minute ?

I guess thanks the SEC filling, it's still time to act and sell it all

He sold his gold ETF stock, but he bought the real thing, wait for the next 1/4 returns or buy the real thing now. He also bought "Adecoagro" supposedly an "AGRIbusiness" who are buying land adjacent goldfields.

"In July Adecoagro purchases La Alegría, a 2,500-hectare farm in Villegas, and another farm of 3,100 hectares in Uruguay called La Pecuaria. Both farms have an enormous transformation potential."

The word has the same root as Latin for "Pecúnia" (money, money)

[Thormaturge]

one way the likes of George soros make money is by misleading others into buying/selling at the wrong time.

If Soros told me to sell gold I would start stocking up on it.

[Butterfly]

If Soros told me to sell gold I would start stocking up on it

he is not saying it, that's the thing. That's the SEC reporting. Certain Hedge Funds are required by law to report their holdings now to the SEC, which bring certain issues regarding confidentiality of trades. Some low-cost managers have started "cloning" successful managers with the SEC filling. Not sure if it's effective though.

[Butterfly]

he bought the real thing,

does it say that in the SEC filling ? or was it a public announcement prior to the EFT sale ?

[OhOh]

he bought the real thing,

does it say that in the SEC filling ? or was it a public announcement prior to the EFT sale ?

The SEC filing is retrospect, for the last three months. It shows his existing holdings and his new purchasers and sales.

There will be another SEC filing in three months.

Which means he can "play" the market for 3 months without anyone knowing. So sell his EFT shares on the last day before filing, buy "real" gold the first day of the next 1/4., nobody knows ...............

Wasnt there a "Texas University" which invested in real gold but mysteriously "stored" the gold bars in a NY bank. Maybe look out for their SEC filing to see if they still own the real gold or have sold it to .........

According to DD Teakdoor pages are taken up by multiple media outlets, one rumour from here could raise the gold price another $100!!!!!!!

[socal]

Think he's got off a bit early. There are a few drops to be wrung out of the gold lemon yet. Still, if you're rich no point worring. Better safe than sorry.

Gold will be worth more then $1800 by the end of the year and could easily double in the next few. Want to bet ?

[Butterfly]

The SEC filing is retrospect, for the last three months. It shows his existing holdings and his new purchasers and sales.

There will be another SEC filing in three months.

The trading cost would be quite high and the market impact too high to do a last minute sale for SEC filling, not convenient, too impractical, and I think it's actually illegal for the SEC as it would be considered "playing" the SEC for filling disclosure.

You don't sell 99% of your holdings without a good reason, and misleading SEC filling is not one of them.

But you are correct, he is probably buying something else. Like all Hedge Funds, if you don't follow in real time, it's hard to tell simply by the SEC filling what's going on. However a 99% liquidation of a position is certainly a strong signal.

[socal]

didn't I told socal that Soros would sell eventually in a NY minute ?

I guess thanks the SEC filling, it's still time to act and sell it all

And John Paulson (net worth 16 billion, more then Soros) said on the same day that gold will trade for more the $4000. I will side with Paulson considering he is the guy that matters now, not that old ugly bastard soros.
Soros Has Begun Dumping Gold And Silver, While John Paulson Says Gold Will Go To $4,000

Read more: John Paulson: Gold Headed To $4,000

[socal]

The SEC filing is retrospect, for the last three months. It shows his existing holdings and his new purchasers and sales.

There will be another SEC filing in three months.

However a 99% liquidation of a position is certainly a strong signal.

So are you shorting gold here ?

[socal]

I will side with Paulson considering he is the guy that matters now, not that old ugly bastard soros

Excellent reason, not that either of them give one FF about your oppinion!

Never thought I'd say this...even "pupa" is posting more intelligent posts than you are, what's up "social" losing your position in the race for the TD idiotic posting award?

I have many reasons but I had to mention Paulson because Butternuts was sucking off Soros.

You make it quite clear that you know fuck all nothing about money.

[Bangyai]

Think he's got off a bit early. There are a few drops to be wrung out of the gold lemon yet. Still, if you're rich no point worring. Better safe than sorry.

Gold will be worth more then $1800 by the end of the year and could easily double in the next few. Want to bet ?

Thats a bit more than a few drops.

[DrAndy]

I will side with Paulson considering he is the guy that matters now, not that old ugly bastard soros

Excellent reason, not that either of them give one FF about your oppinion!

Never thought I'd say this...even "pupa" is posting more intelligent posts than you are, what's up "social" losing your position in the race for the TD idiotic posting award?

Rodney

Definition

noun British

• a foolish or stupid person. This use of the name (by schoolchildren since the 1980s) is inspired by the character of Rodney in the long-running British TV comedy Only Fools and Horses.

he may be challenging you for that position but I don't think he has a chance

[OhOh]

So are you shorting gold here ?

According to DD Teakdoor pages are taken up by multiple media outlets, one rumour from here could raise the gold price another $100!!!!!!!

The market is listening - gold up $25

[dirk diggler]

Ok, gold interests me. You won't see me wearing it, but I'm interested.

Someone please explain to me what the deal is with these companies where you invest your money for a monthly return and in the meantime are given your investment's worth of gold to hold onto as long as you are an investor. Take one of 3 friends I have who are involved with this, none of whom know each other:

Angus. Angus is Malaysian and does his one through a Malaysian company in Penang I think. He has invested either a million or half a million Baht, I forget which. Angus was given the equivalent of his investment in gold which he took straight to the bank/jeweller/whatever and was assured it was genuine and to the value he expected then stuck it in a safety box at his bank. Angus receives approx 28k Baht every month as a return on his investment. No bullshit, no excuses or anything, he can choose to have this paid into the bank or into more investment. The only thing is that his investment must always match the value of the gold he is holding +/- X amount I imagine in which case he can invest a bit more or hand a little gold back.

So come on, what's the catch? How can it be so easy? Company goes bust, disappears, whatever, you can cash in your gold, right? Are there risks?

[Boon Mee]

And the Chicom's are buy it up. Go figure...

china-top-gold-bug-wsj: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

[Butterfly]

^^ so he has the Gold and the company gives him some return based on his initial investment ? 33% a year ? is there a small footnote somewhere in the agreement he signed with that company ? or are they simply giving him back some of his money before the big scam ?

do they have an online website for more information ?

[dirk diggler]

I don't have the answers, but I have emailed him and should hear back on Monday so I'll be sure to come back to that.

Like I said though, I want to know what the catch is. He assures me there's not one, he first told me about this about a year ago, so I guess he's been involved for longer. If he has the gold, how can he lose?

[Butterfly]

If he has the gold, how can he lose?

maybe a small print somewhere in the agreement, they can buy back his gold at par value ? who the fuck knows,

unless we have more details or a copy of the agreement or a name of a company, can't tell if this is a scam. It surely sounds like one though. The catch must be some creative thing nobody thought of yet

[dirk diggler]

Hmm, How not to invest in gold | AndrewChia.com

[Butterfly]

then it's a scam, they are basically reselling Gold at a premium, but the investor doesn't see it

and to make things worse, it's Industrial Gold (lead +1), not "real" Gold

technically we can transform Lead into Gold since they differ by 1 proton,

incidentally the price of lead has gone up over the years, fake gold conspiracy ?

When we convert that back to gm or kg, it’s only about RM140,000/kg but the company is selling you at RM165,000.

Furthermore, there is currently industrial gold which consists of lead which has an atomic weight closest to the element gold. Normal labs are not able to distinguish natural gold from industrial gold. Therefore, it would be wise to buy from either UOB or better still, Credit Suisse.

eventually the 33% annual yield will stop when they run out of cash or the par value of the investment is 0

[Hampsha]

Gold will be worth more then $1800 by the end of the year and could easily double in the next few. Want to bet ?

I'm not much of a believer in anything in this world to bet. If you really believe then you should invest more in it. Are you taking loans to invest in it?



The future of the US should impact this. It's looking more and more like Obama might stay on as the rightwingers drop out of the game. Not sure what that means for the second term. Soros and most of these people go for the biggest gains. Maybe gold is not the place to be for the biggest gains. What else is looking attractive?

[dirk diggler]

^^^ Coal, apartently...?