Thread: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

Good point. But Israel will not do anything that it is legally supposed to vis a vis the Palestenians unless it is forced to. I'm afraid that the rules of Special Dispensation that Israel lives under, provided by Uncle Sam, provide a very nice shield from that force.

Originally Posted by zygote1

- I have viewed the videos. Some from Al Jazeera, and some from the IDF. Based on what I have seen with the IDF personnel being attacked with metal bars and having weapons stripped, it is not out of the ordinary for there to have been hostile fire. Why did these peaceful aid delivery people not surrender? The point would have been made. Why did they attack the IDF personnel? Seems to me the intent of the flotilla was to create martyrs and to play for the camera.

The question might just as well be asked -- why did the Israeli commandos not surrender if they felt they were being overwhelmed by passengers? Instead they escalated the situation with lethal force using military weapons to kill and maim civilians.

The ship was in the process of being hijacked by heavily armed terrorists in INTERNATIONAL waters. The ships crew and passengers had every right under international law to fend off the pirates any way they could using improvised weapons.

Now the ship has been hijacked, the crew and passengers have been kidnapped and several of them have been murdered. This is a blatant case of piracy on the high seas under international maritime law. In addition it is a case of state sponsored terrorism.

^ #97 A, a ham pant,

u hab truble wid wurds 2?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Yep, the only country outside of the enemies (N Korea, Iran and, OK, I'm throwing in Russia) that stands up for itself these days. If Israel had waited for the UN pussies, the guns and ammo likely packed inside of that aid would be in use this week.
AGAIN, what was wrong with the Egyptian port?
The West is just a bunch of libbie wusses these days.
Hello, Iran now has enough enriched uranium for TWO nukes and those S300 land-air missiles from Russia are in transit. Wake the fek up, people.

Can you see them from your porch as you look towards Russia?

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Originally Posted by frank barber

As an unbiased observer, it seems to me that the twats who organised the flotilla and ignored offers to deliver the goods by other means, were just trying to provoke Israel.

Yes, they were, so what? The reaction is still unjustified and illegal.

Originally Posted by frank barber

The blame for any deaths or injuries is surely not Israel's.

How do you make that leap of logic ?

It's not my fault i stole, the money was too tempting ?

It's not my fault I raped, the girl was too pretty ?

It's not my fault I murdered, the folk were teasing me !

- How come Turkey encouraged this flotilla? Is there a chance that the current fundamentalist govvernment that recently arrested many senior Turkish officials on the pretext that they were planning a coup, was looking for something that would will galvanize support for its regime?
The current government has made two public statements: It wishes to move away from secularism and it wishes to assume a bigger leadership role in the Middle East. What better way to do build support than to show their opposition to Israel. Thing is though, many arab leaders recall the stories of the Ottoman Empire and how arabs were treated. The arabs have as much love for the Turks as they do for the Persians.

700 Turks or 700 people from all arround the word where onboard ?

-What does Turkey, the nation that refuses to acknowledge the genocide it perpetrated on Armenian Christians and a nation that continues to slaughter and oppress Kurds, have to lecture anyone on peace?

Take the word Turkey out of the sentence and put Israel in or U.S.

- How come if this aid flotilla was that focused on helping people, the aid wasn't landed in Egypt and sent to Gaza via the Egyptian controlled gateways? Surely the Arab brothers in Egypt could be trusted to deliver the aid. Why did the material have to go through closed maritime water? If the flotilla organizers were told they would be intercepted by both Egypt and Israel, why did they persist on this folly? Is it possible that there was a desire to have a confrontation?

Well, at least you got this halfway right. Yes, its called a PROTEST and to show the world.

- I have viewed the videos. Some from Al Jazeera, and some from the IDF. Based on what I have seen with the IDF personnel being attacked with metal bars and having weapons stripped, it is not out of the ordinary for there to have been hostile fire. Why did these peaceful aid delivery people not surrender? The point would have been made. Why did they attack the IDF personnel? Seems to me the intent of the flotilla was to create martyrs and to play for the camera.

Why did IDF come in the morning (dark) with masked and armed, while everyone was sleeping. If someone would wake me up in such a rude manner I would...
They had guns with them, so I guess the IDF was expecting that they would not be welcomed with tea and biscuits.

- What were the Egyptian naval vessels doing in the close proximity to the site?

Thats a tough one. I'll give it a try. Maybe they live right arround the corner. But maybe you can convince the Egyptians to keep their navy near the pyramids.

If people wish to engage in a confrontation that they know will be violent, why are they not held accoutnable for their actions? Everyone knew there would be violence, so why did the flotilla organizers persist?

Hear thee, hear thee.
As of midnight today any form of protesting is forbidden....ARROUND THE WORLD.
Because the outcome will always be violent.
...Damm it. Should have come up with this brilliant thought a long time ago. And I would still have my lovely communist neighbours.

Israelis are criminals, that is all there is to know

Score 1 for the Jews

Again !

UN security council calls for "immediate release" of ships, civilians held by israel

The United Nations Security Council on Thursday condemned acts which resulted in the loss of civilian lives on ships carrying pro-Palestinian campaigners and aid to Gaza, and called for an impartial investigation into Israel's deadly raid.

In a statement, the Security Council also called for the immediate release of 400 international activists and the six ships being held by Israel.

"This is tantamount to banditry and piracy," Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told the council before the official statement was released. "It is murder conducted by a state."

but, alas,

The Security Council's statement stopped short of condemning Israel

U.N. condemns loss of life in Gaza flotilla raid - Israel-Palestinians- msnbc.com


israel needs to be put down like any other rabid dog.

Originally Posted by raycarey

israel needs to be put down like any other rabid dog.

Never happen Ray ........


And why are all the Arab cowards afraid to start wars with this tiny little nation ?

Originally Posted by zygote1

Originally Posted by Panda

The ship was in the process of being hijacked by heavily armed terrorists in INTERNATIONAL waters. The ships crew and passengers had every right under international law to fend off the pirates any way they could using improvised weapons.

Now the ship has been hijacked, the crew and passengers have been kidnapped and several of them have been murdered. This is a blatant case of piracy on the high seas under international maritime law. In addition it is a case of state sponsored terrorism.

Nice to see that Panda is still as crazy as a bat when it comes to making stuff up. At least there's consistency.

Now Israel has close to 500 prisoners from many nations . . . what to do, what to do . . .

What a PR stuff-up for them . . . they had to do something, but went completely overboard

Originally Posted by zygote1

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by zygote1

- I have viewed the videos. Some from Al Jazeera, and some from the IDF. Based on what I have seen with the IDF personnel being attacked with metal bars and having weapons stripped, it is not out of the ordinary for there to have been hostile fire. Why did these peaceful aid delivery people not surrender? The point would have been made. Why did they attack the IDF personnel? Seems to me the intent of the flotilla was to create martyrs and to play for the camera.

The question might just as well be asked -- why did the Israeli commandos not surrender if they felt they were being overwhelmed by passengers? Instead they escalated the situation with lethal force using military weapons to kill and maim civilians.

The ship was in the process of being hijacked by heavily armed terrorists in INTERNATIONAL waters. The ships crew and passengers had every right under international law to fend off the pirates any way they could using improvised weapons.

Now the ship has been hijacked, the crew and passengers have been kidnapped and several of them have been murdered. This is a blatant case of piracy on the high seas under international maritime law. In addition it is a case of state sponsored terrorism.

How about you come back to reality. The issue of International waters is moot. Know why? because on a regular basis, nations intercept, board and commandeer vessels in international waters.. A month does not go by when naval vessels do not intercept and board suspicious vessels. Need examples? Canada and the US navies do it regularly. Usually, they are intercepting vessels presumed to be carrying illegal immigrants, but often it is because of questionable cargo. The Australian navy does the same thing outside of its territorial waters. Until the Sri Lanka war was finished, India was regularly intercepting, searching and seizing vessels in international waters. Russia has done it as well. The precedent was set long ago.

As for your statement that the IDF personnel should have surrendered when attacked, you need to stick to reality. A soldier does not surrender his or her weapon willingly. It was expected and known that the IDF would intercept the vessels. The vessels were intent on circumventing a restricted area. Calling the IDF pirates is downright silly. There was no intent to loot cargo. The IDF identified itself and the flotilla could have turned around and headed to Egypt. The cargo would have been sent to Gaza had it landed at an appropriate place and been searched for weapons.

If 15000 tons of aid flows into gaza every week, why couldn't the 10,000 tons of supplies on these ships go with the other aid?

Since when has the Australian navy been hijacking foreign cargo ships in international waters under force of arms ? Much less kidnapping and murdering the passengers. Do you have any proof of these accusations?
There are international laws governing freedom of movement on the high seas. Such is the reason the Somali pirates moved their opperations into international waters when the Somali government gave permission to foreign navies to arrest pirates operating inside Somali territorial waters.

Oh, "a soldier does not surrender his or her weapon willingly". They just shoot civilians who resist them hey?
What the hell were the Israeli commandos doing hijacking a civilian cargo ship in the middle of the night if it wasn't an act of piracy?

"There was no attempt to loot the cargo"
BS! The Israelis now have that cargo and the ship in their possession. Not to mention the hundreds of passengers who survived the attack being kidnapped and held against their will.

"The cargo would have been sent to Gaza had it landed at an appropriate place and been searched for weapons"

"If 15000 tons of aid flows into gaza every week, why couldn't the 10,000 tons of supplies on these ships go with the other aid?"
Because Israel sets the 15,000 tons quota and prohibits certain things as much needed building materials to rebuild the homes they bombed into the ground.
Do you think Israel is going to increase the draconian quota to 25,000 tons and allow building materials if they go through an Israeli or Egyptian port? Duh, -- think about it.

Originally Posted by Panda

"There was no attempt to loot the cargo"
BS! The Israelis now have that cargo and the ship in their possession. Not to mention the hundreds of passengers who survived the attack being kidnapped and held against their will.

Lovely misrepresentation, and strawman -- as usual.

Must be a strange world you live in, full of anger, hate, and .... tinfoil hats.

You wouldn't be Australian, by any chance?

Originally Posted by Ghandi

And why are all the Arab cowards afraid to start wars with this tiny little nation ?

This 'tiny little nation' is the biggest recipient of foreign charity in the world, has an airforce bigger than the UK, has nukes, and finally is the beneficiary of an ironclad security guaranty from mother America.
Quite a few good reasons not to start a war I would think.

Quack Quack batting for the wrong team as usual,

Originally Posted by Ghandi

And why are all the Arab cowards afraid to start wars with this tiny little nation ?

This:



and this:



missed sabang's post, bit of a repost then.

Rather than having to watch stupid videos saying "bloke hits man with stick" and "bloke pushes innocent soldier over a railing onto a deck nearly two feet below", I would much prefer it if the Israelis would be honest and say "Look, you're not coming in, and if you try it we'll kick your f**king a**es, and there's nothing you can do about it, because we have the USA and UK by the bollocks and they will never do a thing about it".

Then they wouldn't have to f**k about sliding down ropes in the early hours, they could just torpedo the c**ts in broad daylight.

The net result would be the same. And it would save batteries, so it would be good for the environment as well.

Originally Posted by superman

Originally Posted by Panda

Since when has the Australian navy been hijacking foreign cargo ships in international waters under force of arms ?

When searching for illegal immigrants ? Most countries do it on a daily basis. Not only for illegals but for drugs, weapons and other forms of smuggling. Australia currently intercept 'illegals' in international waters and return them to their country of origin. If they get caught in Australian waters they can automatically ask for asylum. So Australia, and others, intercept them on the high seas.

Not with armed special forces at 3 o'clock in the f**king morning, they don't.

Get real, this was a hijack, justifiable in Israel's rather myopic view, but a hijack nonetheless, and it cost 19 lives.

Originally Posted by superman

Originally Posted by Panda

Since when has the Australian navy been hijacking foreign cargo ships in international waters under force of arms ?

When searching for illegal immigrants ? Most countries do it on a daily basis. Not only for illegals but for drugs, weapons and other forms of smuggling. Australia currently intercept 'illegals' in international waters and return them to their country of origin. If they get caught in Australian waters they can automatically ask for asylum. So Australia, and others, intercept them on the high seas.

Can you justify that statement with a link?

Australia does not forcibly intercept anybody in international waters as it would be a highly illegal act of piracy under international maritime law.

The Australian navy has intercepted many illegal immigrants and illegal fishermen in Australian territorial waters near Ashmore Reef, which does happen to be in the middle of nowhere halfway between Indonesia and Australia.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I would much prefer it if the Israelis would be honest and say "Look, you're not coming in, and if you try it we'll kick your f**king a**es,

They should say that and tell the whiners to fuck off or do something about it.