Move Over Knut - Meet Snowflake

**Northern Scum** · 09-04-2008, 02:28 PM

Her name is Snowflake, and she clearly has what it takes to melt the public's hearts.

Germany's latest superstar polar bear cub made a winning debut yesterday.

Five hundred journalists and battalions of cameraman were there to record the occasion as the four-month-old bundle of fur emerged gingerly into her enclosure at Nuremberg Zoo.

The little bear is the second cub to capture the imagination of the adoring public after Knut the polar bear put a tentative paw outside his enclosure several years ago.

She had to be coaxed out into the open then slowly nosed around the rocks and grass with the curiosity of a toddler - keeping close to her keeper, Horst Maussner.

But she quickly gained confidence, eventually bounding through the grass and plunging into the water. Before long she was splashing and diving happily before climbing out to nibble on the zookeeper's shoe. There was a collective sigh of aaaahhh as Herr Maussner gave her a cuddle with simultaneous tummy-rub.

Snowflake, or Flocke as she is known in German, had to be taken from her mother soon after her birth in December because of fears for her safety.

Nuremberg is hoping that she will prove as big a draw as Knut, her older counterpart at Berlin Zoo.

He has generated £5million in takings and souvenir sales since he was abandoned by his own mother in 2006 and raised by zookeepers. Detlef Untermann, spokesman for Berlin Zoo, said there is room for both bears in the commercial market.

"It's clear that people like it cute, small, cuddly and white; button eyes, button nose," he said.
"It's OK that way and Nuremberg can enjoy the attention of the public now.

"Berlin Zoo is not envious in any way, and Knut doesn't begrudge them either; he's been brought up quite well."

That, however, is a matter of debate. Animal rights campaigners who campaigned for Knut to be put down rather than raised by humans say he is now showing signs of mental problems.

He beckons photographers forward to take pictures of him, wails when no tourists stand before his enclosure, hugs trees for comfort and shows more and more aggression.

Recently he killed ten live carp which had been put into his moat to eat algae, biting their heads off and smothering himself in their blood. Juergen Ortmueller, of the Whale, Bear and Dolphin Protection Forum, said: "Knut is a psychopath and there is every danger that Flocke will be one too."

When will we ever learn

**Cujo** · 09-04-2008, 02:59 PM

They wanted to just let him die, not put him down.
Loony tunes animal rights activists take it too far sometimes.
Should we put down human orphans as well ,in case they become psychopathic?
Anyway, a psychopathic bear would be a good zoo attraction I'd say.

**The Gentleman Scamp** · 09-04-2008, 03:11 PM

Nuremberg is hoping that she will prove as big a draw as Knut, her oldeor counterpart at Berlin Zoo.

He has generated £5million in takings and souvenir sales since he was abandoned by his own mother in 2006 and raised by zookeepers. Detlef Untermann, spokesman for Berlin Zoo, said there is room for both bears in the commercial market.

That's what it's all about at the end of the day, the Krauts are honest about it I guess.

**Happyman** · 09-04-2008, 03:19 PM

he killed ten live carp which had been put into his moat to eat algae, biting their heads off

Polar bears are predators .Thats what they do!

I dont think he would be happy with nut cutlets and tofu !!

**Cujo** · 09-04-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Happyman

he killed ten live carp which had been put into his moat to eat algae, biting their heads off

Polar bears are predators .Thats what they do!

I dont think he would be happy with nut cutlets and tofu !!

Quite right.

**gusG** · 09-04-2008, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Shitman

"Knut is a psychopath and there is every danger that Flocke will be one too."

I'd probably go a bit psycho too, if everyone called me a Kunt.

**dirtydog** · 09-04-2008, 06:55 PM

^Knut

**November Rain** · 09-04-2008, 08:36 PM

The whole thing is fucking sick. Zoos are prison camps for entertainment purposes. The people that go to them are neanderthals or ghoulish. If you want to see real animal behaviour, observe it in the wild or watch Animal Planet (or similar).

This is wrong. So was Knut's story. Sometimes I really hate people.

bkkmadness · 09-04-2008, 08:48 PM

Zoo's are not all that bad. Many are concerned with conservation these days.

**Driventowin** · 14-04-2008, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

The whole thing is fucking sick. Zoos are prison camps for entertainment purposes. The people that go to them are neanderthals or ghoulish. If you want to see real animal behaviour, observe it in the wild or watch Animal Planet (or similar).

This is wrong. So was Knut's story. Sometimes I really hate people.

Well here that's certainly the truth and I would say even understated..But I disagree about western zoos...

**November Rain** · 09-04-2008, 09:08 PM

Mmmm. Yep. That's their byline & their draw.

bkkmadness · 09-04-2008, 09:20 PM

I see your point with many zoos, but I think you are being cynical also. Take a look at the decent zoos of the world, like San Diego for example, they do plenty of conservation work.

**Northern Scum** · 09-04-2008, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Shitman

Knut doesn't begrudge them [the zoo] either; he's been brought up quite well

That bit shows the mindset of these people.

You can't argue with people like that.

**EmperorTud** · 09-04-2008, 09:57 PM

Flocke n' Knut?

**Happyman** · 11-04-2008, 03:23 PM

The only zoo I like is Whipsnade in UK- I think if you want a zoo do it this way - acres of paddocks for the animals - wallabys and things running wild in the visitor area - a pine forest for the wolves etc etc etc - it is nice !

bkkmadness · 12-04-2008, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Happyman

The only zoo I like is Whipsnade in UK- I think if you want a zoo do it this way - acres of paddocks for the animals - wallabys and things running wild in the visitor area - a pine forest for the wolves etc etc etc - it is nice !

Agreed, I don't like to see Lions pacing around a small enclosure either. Less animals, better environments and more conservation projects is the way forward.

**Happyman** · 12-04-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Happyman

The only zoo I like is Whipsnade in UK- I think if you want a zoo do it this way - acres of paddocks for the animals - wallabys and things running wild in the visitor area - a pine forest for the wolves etc etc etc - it is nice !

Just remembered what the things were!

Copyara-like gunea pigs on steroids with long legs - my grand daughters thought they were the best thing there!

**Jet Gorgon** · 12-04-2008, 01:15 AM

We have lots of zoos for wild animals in Canada. They're called national parks.

**Happyman** · 12-04-2008, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

We have lots of zoos for wild animals in Canada. They're called national parks.

Nice one !

**Cujo** · 14-04-2008, 09:46 AM

[quote=Happyman;591281]

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

We have lots of zoos for wild animals in Canada. They're called national parks.

Any tigers, zebras, giraffes there?
After being in China western oos are positively humane.Ausralia has a good one in Dubbo, the western plains zoo. Open range type of thing. I like them.

**kingwilly** · 14-04-2008, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by November Rain

he whole thing is fucking sick. Zoos are prison camps for entertainment purposes. The people that go to them are neanderthals or ghoulish. If you want to see real animal behaviour, observe it in the wild or watch Animal Planet (or similar). This is wrong. So was Knut's story. Sometimes I really hate people.

hmmmm,

like many environmental issues in the world today its all about balance aint it NR?

If we do not allow any human use of marine or national parks then there will be no incentive to look after them, manage them properly and then the added human interest can generate dollars.

Properly managed Zoos or Sanctuaries have their place and if they can assist educating people and raising awareness that can then benefit many other wild animals then its a reasonable result, no?

either extreme is not gonna be beneficial.

Humans use this planet, as a species we are not going to give up modern conveniences and climb back up into the trees, so we need to work out the best way to balance of this.

**November Rain** · 14-04-2008, 10:17 AM

^ Sorry, but I don't agree, KW. Conservation? Wouldn't it be better for the animals if conservation efforts were concentrated in the animals' native countries - in their own habitat? Less stressful, same climate & geography. But, then you wouldn't get the punters bringing their kids on a Saturday, would you? Education? You'll learn more about animals from watching one hour of Animal Planet than you will in a week of watching some poor animal in an enclosure.

Please don't try to tell me that training a dolphin or orca to jump through hoops & having it live its life in a sodding swimming pool benefits it or any other dolphin/orca on the planet. It generates money for the zoo/park & amuses the numbskulls that go to watch the 'show'.

I have nothing against conservation efforts & parks in the animal's natural habitat, but IMO there is no need for any animal to be kept in a zoo. Even the best ones cannot duplicate how an animal would live in the wild.

**kingwilly** · 14-04-2008, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by November Rain

Wouldn't it be better for the animals if conservation efforts were concentrated in the animals' native countries - in their own habitat?

yes, has not Knut and Snowflake generated far more publicity and awareness than would otherwise have been created?

Originally Posted by November Rain

ut, then you wouldn't get the punters bringing their kids on a Saturday, would you?

correct, you wouldnt. this is part of the necessary evil.

Originally Posted by November Rain

Education? You'll learn more about animals from watching one hour of Animal Planet than you will in a week of watching some poor animal in an enclosure.

dont agree 100% with that, much of discovery channel is the usual snakes and tigers and crocodiles.

Also many zoos have very good educational programmes.

Originally Posted by November Rain

Please don't try to tell me that training a dolphin or orca to jump through hoops & having it live its life in a sodding swimming pool benefits it or any other dolphin/orca on the planet. It generates money for the zoo/park & amuses the numbskulls that go to watch the 'show'.

agreed, its that balance thing i was talking about, performing animals should not be part of a zoo, belong with the circus' of yesteryear.

Originally Posted by November Rain

but IMO there is no need for any animal to be kept in a zoo. Even the best ones cannot duplicate how an animal would live in the wild.

hmmm, a somewhat simplistic concept here, what about when an animal's natural habititat is extremely threatened? or the host country does not value conservation all that much.

eg Sumatran Tiger, Chinese Panda, are 2 quick examples off the top of my head.

**The Gentleman Scamp** · 14-04-2008, 01:49 PM

Zoos are for pooves.

**November Rain** · 14-04-2008, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by kingwilly

hmmm, a somewhat simplistic concept here, what about when an animal's natural habititat is extremely threatened? or the host country does not value conservation all that much.

Then it would be even more necessary to institute conservation in those countries, as far as I can see. To allow the habitat to disappear but say "Oh, it's OK - we've got a few of them in zoos, so we're doing our bit" is a far more simplistic concept, & frankly, a monumental cop-out.
Conservation efforts do not have to be the sole reserve of the countries' Governments. They can be international programmes, but simply be based in the animals' native countries. There are many such organisations & programmes already.

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