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  1. #51
    Member havnfun's Avatar
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    Well that's settled then.
    Russia gets Nord Stream 2 and America can suck it.

  2. #52
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    Rarely ever watch it Snubbles. I didn't know I even received the channel until I recently found a channel out of your home town.



    Ukraine has always been a divided country. Its called a civil war.

    I'll have to brush up on what's going on in the Donbas before commenting.

    From the anti Kremlin Moscow Times Putin Refused Poroshenko’s Offer to ‘Take Donbass’ — Forbes

    President Vladimir Putin in February turned down an offer from his Ukrainian counterpart Petro Poroshenko to “take the Donbass” — the area in the country's east that is currently partly controlled by pro-Russian insurgents — and asked Poroshenko whether he was “out of his mind,” Forbes magazine reported Monday.


    Putin reportedly told a closed-door meeting with senior board members of the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs on March 19 that Poroshenko had offered him eastern Ukraine's Donbass region — which includes the war-torn Donetsk and Luhansk regions — at peace talks in Minsk at which a cease-fire was agreed in February, according to an unidentified source cited by Forbes who participated in the meeting.


    According to the source, Putin recounted the overnight Minsk negotiations, saying: “[Poroshenko] told me directly: 'Take the Donbass.' I replied: 'Are you out of your mind? I don't need the Donbass. If you don't need it, declare it independent,'” Forbes reported.

  3. #53
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    Further to my post regarding Bidens "Press Conference".

    Somebody has posted this photo, allegedly from Bidens viewpoint.

    Biden vs Putin. Round One Done, two in progress-e4cudtmvkaatzqa-jpg

    Which may have had some bearing on his performance, the poor visibility of his questioners, along with poor audio from his questioners.

  4. #54
    Member havnfun's Avatar
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    It's pretty clear to anyone that has a vague sense of reality that he is controlled by his staffers, he constantly sais "I don't want to get in trouble" "I might get in trouble for this" it's a fucking joke, the guy is supposed to be the President FFS.

    Then there is the going to pre-planned questions from "reporters", He has a fucking list of reporters to go to.

  5. #55
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Honestly my esteem for Biden increased five fold after that press conference. He handled all the questions well. It's great to have a practiced diplomat at the helm, finally. Hang in there Joe. Let's all remember that even presidents have yheir own individual struggles.

  6. #56
    Member havnfun's Avatar
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    Five times 0 = 0. LOL

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    I can tell you with utmost certainty what the most painful thing is for everyone: trying to understand the utter drivel you post.

    I for one have given up.
    ..lol…
    There’s a Klondork- to-English dictionary floating around here somewhere.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by havnfun View Post
    It's pretty clear to anyone that has a vague sense of reality that he is controlled by his staffers, he constantly sais "I don't want to get in trouble" "I might get in trouble for this" it's a fucking joke, the guy is supposed to be the President FFS.

    Then there is the going to pre-planned questions from "reporters", He has a fucking list of reporters to go to.
    Yes, we all miss the calm, eloquent responses Trump gave to the questions at his pressers.

  9. #59
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Poor deeksy, he thinks he's 'good at stirring shit' when all he's really good at is making himself look like a c u n t.


  10. #60
    Member havnfun's Avatar
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    You miss-spelt a c c o u n t

  11. #61
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    The west should be more concerned with China rather than Russia.
    Aside from the fact Russia has nukes they are far down the list of significant issues concerning the "west".
    The west and particularly the US need to look at home if they are serious about the well being of their citizens.
    A very long list of ills. Decent health care, voting rights for all, crack down on extremists (right and left), make sense gun control, infrastucture improvement et al.

    "Medice, cura te ipsum"
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Aside from the fact Russia has nukes they are far down the list of significant issues concerning the "west".
    The west and particularly the US need to look at home if they are serious about the well being of their citizens.
    A very long list of ills. Decent health care, voting rights for all, crack down on extremists (right and left), make sense gun control, infrastucture improvement et al.

    "Medice, cura te ipsum"
    Norton, you obviously haven’t been paying attention to what’s been going on in ‘Merica over the past four years.
    Mr. Trump saved us all, and made America great again.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbound View Post
    Norton, you obviously haven’t been paying attention to what’s been going on in ‘Merica over the past four years.
    Mr. Trump saved us all, and made America great again.
    He did, indeed . . . deeks and grumpy keep telling us so

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    Honestly my esteem for Biden increased five fold after that press conference. He handled all the questions well.
    And is not true that no foreign journos were admitted. There was one Russian: Настоящее Время... (Current Time)

    OOpss...
    Current Time – “Настоящее Время” in Russian – is a 24-hour Russian-language television and digital news network aimed at audiences in Russia, the countries of Central and Eastern Europe, and around the world.

    Current Time is produced by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) in cooperation with the Voice of America (VOA).
    Current Time TV Channel - Настоящее Время

  15. #65
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    "Medice, cura te ipsum"
    "Surge, tolle grabatum tuum et ambul"

  16. #66
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    LULZ... So Fox News has told Trumpists that they need to think that Biden was 'weak' against Putin.

    How quickly they forget their Orange overlords fawning sycophancy and cowtailing.

  17. #67
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    Takeaways from Biden-Putin summit

    June 17, 2021 by M. K. BHADRAKUMAR

    "On the diplomatic stage, there is nothing to beat Russian-American summits in sheer theatrics. When the leaders of the two most powerful nuclear powers on earth sit face to face, anything can happen. What happened in 1985 is a classic example. In the shadows of Ronald Reagan’s famous characterisation of the USSR as ‘Evil Empire’, his summit in Geneva with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev opened the door toward the pathway that ended the Cold War.

    The Geneva summit on Wednesday lived up to that tradition. Both presidents Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin agreed that it was a productive event — although relatively brief.

    Putin was typically forthright at the hour-long press conference after the summit, looking quite relaxed, smiling. He took a lot of questions from American and Russian journalists. He said there was no hostility at the talks, which were in a constructive spirit.

    But, Putin categorically rebuffed the US allegations on cyber attacks and human rights. On Ukraine and Belarus, the two presidents agreed to disagree. The summit’s main outcome was to restart strategic dialogue and to address cyber issues.

    Conceivably, Putin got enough to claim political victory back home. Moscow analysts will project that Washington has realised that it is impossible to isolate Russia, that Russia is important and in certain ways even indispensable and, therefore, the US is getting back on track on strategic stability and probably even in terms of cyber security.

    Biden’s 30-minute press conference (which, inexplicably, was restricted to American journalists) later confirmed that it was a positive and constructive meeting. Biden estimated, “And now we’ve established a clear basis on how we intend to deal with Russia and the U.S.-Russia relationship.”

    But the Q&A highlighted that Biden has a serious problem back home. The American journalists took a dismal view of Biden’s newfound pragmatism regarding Russia and Putin.

    Biden came under pressure to defend his overture to Putin for the summit. He has outstripped the American mainstream opinion. The press conference ended with an altercation when a journalist took a shot at Biden: “Why are you so confident he’ll (Putin) change his behaviour, Mr. President?” Biden got furious: “I’m not confident he’ll change his behaviour. Where the hell — what do you do all the time? When did I say I was confident?… I’m not confident of anything…”

    Does Biden have the political capital to press ahead with a project to create “stability and predictability” in US-Russia relations? Clearly, it is too early to say this summit was a success for Biden or not. Weeks and months may be needed to see how the US-Russia relationship develops. One summit in Geneva cannot transform the relationship.


    The summit probably fulfilled the expectations on both sides, but the bar of expectations was intentionally kept low. The joint statement on strategic stability came as a surprise. But then it is an articulation of first principles — that a nuclear war cannot be won and therefore should never be fought.

    An endpoint in strategic dialogue may not be possible even in 3-6 months, as the conversation devolves upon the core aspect of the relationship, and in the 21st century context it also involves cyber, space, conventional security issues, diplomatic infrastructure, etc.

    Put simply, while Putin is in a position to signal to his government that productive work can begin, is Biden equally well placed to do so?

    Make no mistake, cyber security is a very complicated topic where a thin line separates crime from terrorism. Putin will never admit any wrongdoing by the Russian state nor will he give any unilateral commitments, since Russia itself is vulnerable to cyber attack. And cyber happens to be a national security issue too. Thus, even to get started, trust is needed — and trust is what is lacking. A bumpy road lies ahead.


    Biden’s motivations remain ambivalent. Three things emerge out of his press conference. First, Biden sought “to identify areas of practical work” with Russia on a broad front — apart from strategic dialogue and cyber security, Biden mentioned “humanitarian corridors” in Syria; Iran and Afghanistan where he needs Putin’s “help”; cooperation in the Arctic, etc. In sum, he sought a constructive engagement.


    Second, Biden hopes to strike a personal equation with Putin. In his words, “I mean, I — look, guys, I know we make foreign policy out to be this great, great skill that somehow is, sort of, like a secret code. Pract- — all foreign policy is, is a logical extension of personal relationships. It’s the way human nature functions.”


    Third, Biden believes he has a workable carrot-and-stick approach to Putin. In Biden’s estimation, Putin is under immense pressure. Biden said, “I think that the last thing he (Putin) wants now is a Cold War. You got a multi-thousand-mile border with China. China is moving ahead, hellbent on election, as they say, seeking to be the most powerful economy in the world and the largest and the most powerful military in the world.

    “You’re (Putin) in a situation where your economy is struggling, you need to move it in a more aggressive way, in terms of growing it. And you — I don’t think he’s looking for a Cold War with the United States…

    “But that does not mean he’s (Putin) ready to, quote, figuratively speaking, ‘lay down his arms,’ and say, “Come on.” He still, I believe, is concerned about being “encircled.” He still is concerned that we (US), in fact, are looking to take him down, et cetera. He still has those concerns, but I don’t think they are the driving force as to the kind of relationship he’s looking for with the United States.”


    These stunning remarks underscore that the Biden administration’s understanding of Putin’s Russia is full of naïveté and is deeply flawed. Moscow and Beijing must be sensing it. Putin’s extraordinary remarks about Russia-China ties during his NBC News interview on Monday testify to it.


    Putin said, “Can I be completely honest? We can see attempts at destroying the relationship between Russia and China. We can see that those attempts are being made in practical policies. And your questions, too, have to do with it.”


    This is, perhaps, the salience of the Geneva summit. It appears that there is a serious misconception among America’s foreign-policy elite as regards the resilience of the Russia-China strategic partnership.


    Russia and China have congruent interest in lending support to each other to create space for the other party to push back at the US. The partnership is accommodative toward each other’s core concerns and specific interests, mutually beneficial, rewarding in content.


    Fundamentally, Biden inherits the legacy of the anti-Trump campaign of the Democratic Party (and Obama presidency), which created a contrived narrative of “Russia collusion” in 2016 to malign the former US president as a Manchurian candidate, and thereafter undermine his presidency.


    Biden is today stuck with that false narrative. He has no use for it as a roadmap to navigate the Russia policies but he can’t disown it, either. This contradiction can be resolved only if the US’ relations with Russia is treated as a foreign policy issue and not as a template of domestic politics.

    But Biden is too weak a president to charter such a profound course correction, his impeccable hawkish credentials notwithstanding."

    https://www.indianpunchline.com/take...-putin-summit/
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    https://www.indianpunchline.com/take...-putin-summit/
    Punchline because it is a joke . . . just like OhNo

  19. #69
    Member havnfun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    He did, indeed . . . deeks and grumpy keep telling us so
    Biden reversed everything,
    The Border.
    The Keystone 2
    The Nordstream 2
    The Paris accord
    The Palestinian aid money.
    Now
    Massive illegal immigration and drug trafficking
    Fuel prices up 50%
    Putin laughs at Biden at the G7
    America will give trillions to China
    Hamas shoots 4500 rockets into Israel.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by havnfun View Post
    Biden reversed everything,
    A) He didn't reverse everything
    B) Nothing wrong in reversing bad decisions irrespective of who made them

  21. #71
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    deeks only knows what Fox / Sky News tells him to think.

    Some of those things on his list are what Trump had reversed so they are reversals of reversals.

  22. #72
    Member havnfun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havnfun View Post
    Biden reversed everything,
    The Border.
    The Keystone 2
    The Nordstream 2
    The Paris accord
    The Palestinian aid money.
    Now
    Massive illegal immigration and drug trafficking
    Fuel prices up 50%
    Putin laughs at Biden at the G7
    America will give trillions to China
    Hamas shoots 4500 rockets into Israel.
    Cause and effect brother^ You can't always get what you want. but Vlad did and China and Hamas. Fucking glad that I don't have to pay taxes anymore, you blokes that live in the States are fucked.

  23. #73
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Looks like Hoohoo's favourite wobbly is a trumpanzee.

  24. #74
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    Between the lines of the Biden-Putin summit

    Biden hinted US wants Russia 'back in the fold' but Putin won't be leaving China's embrace any time soon


    by Pepe Escobar June 17, 2021

    "Let’s start with the written word.

    In Geneva, the US and Russia issued ajoint statementin which “we reaffirm the principle that a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.”

    Assorted Dr Strangeloves will cringe – but at least the world has it in writing, and may breathe a sigh of relief with this breakthrough of sorts. That doesn’t mean that a “non-agreement-capable” US military-industrial complex will abide by it.

    Moscow and Washington also committed to engage in an “integrated bilateral strategic stability dialogue in the near future that will be deliberate and robust.” The devil in the details is in which “near future” the dialogue will progress.

    A first step is that ambassadors are returning to both capitals. Putin confirmed that the Russian Foreign Ministry and the State Department will “start consultations” following the new START-3 treaty extension for five years.

    Equally important was the actual Rosebud in Geneva: the Minsk protocol. That was one of the key drivers for the White House to actually ask the Kremlin for the summit – and not the other way around.
    The US establishment was shaken by the lightning-flash military buildup in Russian territory contiguous to Donbass, which was a response to Kiev’s provocations. (Putin: “We conduct exercises on our territory, but we do not conduct exercises dragging equipment and weapons to the US border.”)

    The message was duly received. There seems to be a change of posture by the US on Ukraine – implying the Minsk protocol is back.

    But that can all be – once again – shadow play. Biden said: “We agreed to pursue diplomacy related to the Minsk agreement.”
    To “pursue diplomacy” does not necessarily mean strictly abiding by a deal, already endorsed by the UN Security Council, that is being disrespected by Kiev non-stop. But at least it implies diplomacy.

    A benign reading would reveal that some red lines are finally being understood. Putin did allude to it: “In general, it is clear to us what our US partners talk about, and they do understand what we say, when it comes to the ‘red lines.’ But I should say frankly that we have not gone as far as placing the emphases in detail” sufficiently to “distribute and share something.”

    So no detail – at least not yet.

    Giving away the game

    Talking before boarding Air Force One out of Geneva, a relaxed Joe Biden seems to have given away the game, in a trademark self-deluded way.

    He said: “Russia is in a very, very difficult spot right now … They are being squeezed by China. They want desperately to remain a major power.”
    This reveals a curious mix between zero knowledge about the complex, always evolving Russia-China comprehensive strategic partnership and outright wishful thinking (“squeezed by China,” “desperate to remain a major power”).

    Russia is a de facto major power. Yet Putin’s vision of complete Russian sovereignty can only flourish in a true multipolar world coordinated by a concert of sovereigns: a realpolitik-based balance of power.

    That’s in sharp contrast to the unipolarity privileged by the US, whose establishment considers any political player calling for sovereignty and multipolarity as a sworn enemy.
    This cognitive dissonance certainly was not removed by what Putin, Biden and their extended teams discussed at Villa La Grange.

    It’s quite enlightening to revive the arc from Anchorage to Geneva, which I have been chronicling for Asia Times for the past three months. In Alaska, China was hurled into a dingy environment and received with insults at the diplomatic table – responded to in kind by the formidable Yang Jiechi. Compare it with the Hollywood-style ceremonial in Geneva.
    The difference in treatment offered to China and Russia once again gives away the game.

    US ruling elites are totally paralyzed by the Russia-China strategic partnership. But their ultimate nightmare is that the Germans will understand that once again they are being used as cannon fodder, which they are as has been clearly visible throughout the Nord Stream 2 saga.

    That might eventually propel Berlin into the ultimate Eurasian alliance with Russia and China. The recently signed Atlantic Charter signals that the ideal scenario for the Anglo-Americans – shades of WWII – is to have Germany and Russia as irreconcilable opposites.

    So the main American goal in the somewhat quirky Putin-Biden photo op (Putin smirk meets Biden looking into the distance) was to trick Putin into thinking Washington wants Russia “back in the fold,” moving Moscow away from Beijing and avoiding a triple alliance with Berlin.

    Regional stability?

    There were no substantial leaks from Geneva – at least not yet. We don’t know whether Lavrov and Blinken actually did much of the talking when only the four of them – plus translators – were in the library room.

    At the extended meeting, notorious Maidan cookie distributor Victoria “F*ck the EU” Nuland had a seat at the table. That might imply that even if the US and Russia agree on nuclear stability, regional stability remains largely off the table. (Putin: “What is stable in supporting a coup in Ukraine?”)
    Biden vaguely referred to the US and Russia possibly working together on humanitarian aid to Syria. That was code for Idlib – where NATO’s Turkey is actively supporting jihadis of the al-Nusra kind. Not a word on the illegal American occupation of Syrian territory – complete with oil smuggling – and the fact that the real humanitarian crisis in Syria is a direct result of US sanctions.

    None of this was asked in either presser. A passing word on Iran, another passing word on Afghanistan, not even a mention of Gaza.

    Putin, in full command of the facts and insisting on logic, was clearly accommodating, emphasizing “no hostility” and “a willingness to understand each other.” Biden, to his credit, said disagreements were not dealt with in a “hyperbolic atmosphere” and his “agenda” is not directed against Russia.
    Putin went into extreme detail explaining how Russia is “restoring lost infrastructure” in the Arctic. He’s “deeply convinced” the US and Russia should cooperate in the Arctic.
    On cybersecurity, he was adamant that Moscow provides all information on US requests about cyberattacks, but never receives answers from the Americans. He emphasized most cyberattacks originate in the US.

    On human rights: “Guantanamo is still working, does not comply with any international law.” And “torture was used in American prisons, including in Europe.”

    Very important: they did touch upon, “casually,” the vaccine wars, and the “possibility” was evoked of mutual recognition of vaccines.
    For the record, US mainstream media were invited for Putin’s presser – and felt free to lodge accusatory “questions” faithful to the “rogue Kremlin behavior” script – while no Russian media whatsoever were allowed at Biden’s presser.

    In a nutshell, applying Kissinger’s divide and rule to put a spanner in the Russia-China works was DOA when you were dealing with ultra-savvy players such as Putin and Lavrov.

    Putin, in his presser, said: “I have no illusions, and there can be no illusions.” Later, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was asked if Geneva would lead to the US being removed from Russia’s Unfriendly Nations list: “No,” he replied. “There are no grounds yet.”
    Still, there are glimmers of hope. Stranger geopolitical things have happened. If warmongers are sidelined, 2021 might even end up as the Year of Strategic Stability. "


    Between the lines of the Biden-Putin summit - Asia Times

  25. #75
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    Pepe Escobar



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