Thread: Catalonia referendum: Spanish police target Catalan government

Catalonia referendum: Spanish police target Catalan government

• 20 September 2017
  
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Spain's Guardia Civil police have detained a senior Catalan official and raided regional government ministries involved in organising a banned independence vote.
Tensions were already high before the arrest of Josep Maria Jové, secretary-general of the Catalan vice presidency.
Catalan leaders are defying a court order to halt the vote, condemned by the Madrid government as illegal.
One official called for peaceful resistance to protect the buildings.
"The time has come - let's resist peacefully; let's come out and defend our institutions," the president of the Catalan National Assembly, Jordi Sánchez, tweeted.
'We will not allow it'

The economy, foreign affairs and presidency buildings were all targeted early on Wednesday, 11 days before the referendum.
The detained official's boss, Catalan Vice-President Oriol Junqueras, accused Spanish police of attacking the region's institutions and therefore its citizens too. "We will not allow it," he said.
The night before, Spanish police discovered a mass of documents directly related to the banned vote.
Catalan police officers, on patrol outside the building in Terrassa, scuffled with pro-secession protesters trying to block the street outside.
The Catalan government is trying to organise the 1 October referendum, in the face of determined resistance by the national government to prevent it going ahead.
The Madrid government has been backed up by Spain's Constitutional Court, which suspended the referendum law passed by the Catalan parliament.


Some 7.5 million people live in Spain's well-off north-eastern region. Although opinion polls have been rare, one survey commissioned by the Catalan government in July suggested that 41% of voters backed independence while 49% were opposed.
Stacks of boxes of envelopes found

One of the most important aims for the national authorities is to stop voting cards being sent out in the first place.


Among the documents seized in Terrassa were stacks of boxes containing some 45,000 envelopes with the Catalan government's logo. The envelopes were suspected of containing voting cards.
In earlier raids, only posters and other promotional election literature had been found.


A local judge in Terrassa authorised police to seize the envelopes and open one to assess whether a company official may have been involved in "misappropriating public money" for the 1 October vote.
Up to 200 local people gathered outside the Unipost offices, placing flowers on police vehicles. For more than two hours they stopped a local judiciary official from entering the building. Catalan police eventually intervened to let the official through.
The mayors of three small Catalan towns appeared in court on Tuesday on suspicion of helping the vote take place.
Spanish prosecutors have opened an investigation into more than 700 local mayors who have backed the referendum. If voting does go ahead, it will take place in Catalonia's schools and municipal buildings.
The Spanish government has also moved to take control of the region's finances, in an attempt to stop public money being spent on the vote.
A deadline for the Catalan leadership to abandon the vote has run out, with Spain preparing to take over funding of most public services, including the payment of workers' salaries.
However, the vice-president of the Catalan government, Oriol Junqueras, went to the Supreme Court on Tuesday to appeal against the decision. Accusing the national government of irresponsible behaviour, he said he was confident the appeal would in effect suspend Madrid's move.
The Catalan administration had all the resources it needed to meet its obligations, he said.

Catalonia referendum: Spanish police target Catalan government - BBC News

Spanish government fears violence in Catalonia
By EUOBSERVER

8. SEP, 17:42
The Spanish government is worried that "blood is shed on the streets" of Catalonia, its spokesman said, after Spain's Constitutional Tribunal said an independence referendum planned for 1 October by the Catalan government is illegal, and the state prosecutor asked Catalan police to prevent the vote. He said that the government would be ready to use Article 155 of the Constitution, which allows "necessary means" to protect the state's interests.

https://euobserver.com/tickers/138946

In the meantime the Mods in Brussels are silent

Originally Posted by david44

Spanish government fears violence in Catalonia

They fear democracy, threats of violence are coming from Madrid.

Ignore the insulting ranterbanter

The real oppression

Independence rallies before the TSJC to demand the release of detainees

DAVID RUIZ , QUICO SALLÉS
It is expected that those arre

Why do you care RJ ?

Via Laietana, from the Social Political Brigade of Franco to the Civil Guard of Rajoy

Gara takes the glove off even La Farol and the normally Madril oriented press having dounbts
Pro Catalan protest in Puerto del Sol

El Mundo and La Vanguardia are giving a balanced view wil TVE is spoting the Falange unity line

Noticias de España | EL MUNDO
ETB has in depth analysis
Boulevard (2017-2018) | Radio a la carta | EITB Radios

Not really an answer is it RJ.

I remember seeing independence marches in Galicia right on the street where I was only 3 years ago... the question is, what do they want independence from and to?

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

I remember seeing independence marches in Galicia right on the street where I was only 3 years ago... the question is, what do they want independence from and to?

From Spain. They want an independent sovereign state of Catalonia.

What do you mean "independence... to?".

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

From Spain. They want an independent sovereign state of Catalonia.

What do you mean "independence... to?".

I mean... do they want independence from a weak Spanish economy? An ineffective and excessively bureacratic centralised state? What is the problem that independence is the solution for?
Presumably they hope, like Scotland, to remain in the EU, which doesn't seem much like independent sovereignty... do they just want a national football team, because they already get to use their language, and fly their flag, and they won't get to play border guards inside the EU... so what's it all for? A lot of people felt that the Nutty Nats just wanted to elevate their Stoneybridge town council to international levels of pomposity and pile onto the gravy train with yet another unnecessary layer of administration for the punters to pay for whilst overseeing the inevitable ajockalypse as the economy went bubble and squeak.

"independence... to" means, what does the punter on the street get for this? do they get a pay rise/tax cut? draw a squiggle on a map or a slot in the world cup qualifiers? Get their kids to learn Spanish as a foreign language at school? 'cos I don't see how it benefits them.

Barcelona Braces for Sustained Protests After Raids on Officials
By Esteban Duarte
September 20, 2017, 9:15 PM GMT+3 September 21, 2017, 10:33 AM GMT+3


Barcelona is bracing for fresh protests after campaigners for Catalan independence scuffled overnight with Spanish police cracking down on plans for a referendum on secession.


Standing on top of a battered police car around midnight, separatist leader Jordi Sanchez told protesters gathered outside the regional economy department to go home and prepare for a sustained insurrection after Spanish police arrested regional officials and seized ballot papers during a day of dramatic confrontation in the Catalan capital. Sanchez’s Catalan National Assembly is calling for a permanent demonstration from noon Thursday as it pushes for a vote on Oct. 1.


“Half of our team is arrested -- not for doing something wrong, but for doing what we must do,” Catalan Vice President Oriol Junqueras said, his voice breaking, in an emotional interview with regional broadcaster TV3. “People should look hard at who they choose to trust, they will see who is acting with honor.”


With Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy facing Spain’s biggest constitutional crisis in more than three decades, the future of Catalonia will be shaped by the power struggle that plays out in the coming days between the forces of the state and the protesters on the streets. El Mundo newspaper reported Thursday that the central government plans to deploy almost 3,000 National Police and Civil Guard to Catalonia.


Rajoy has been ratcheting up his government’s response to ensure the referendum won’t happen. Wednesday’s police raids led to at least 14 arrests as the Civil Guard also seized almost 10 million voting slips at an industrial warehouse near Barcelona.


“I call on them to end their illegal actions, to abandon their plans, they know this referendum cannot be held,” Rajoy said in a televised statement Wednesday night. “It is nothing more than an impossible chimera or, which is worse, the excuse that some use to deepen even further the fractures that they have created in Catalan society.”


No analysts at this stage are projecting Spain’s biggest economic region has much chance of actually winning independence -- just 35 percent said Catalonia should be independent in a July survey by the Catalan government’s polling agency. But the rift between Barcelona and Madrid and, indeed, between the pro- and anti-independence factions within Catalan society, may leave a permanent scar on the nation’s psyche and poses a threat to political leaders from both camps.


“Today marks a new level of escalation in the conflict,” Angel Talavera, an economist at Oxford Economics in London, said Wednesday. “The relationship is completely destroyed. I don’t see any way they can really move forward without a change of government on both sides.”


The extra yield investors demand to hold Spanish 10-year debt instead of German bunds was little changed at 114 points in early trading Thursday after rising by 4 points during the previous session. Shares of Catalan lender Banco Sabadell SA fell 3.8 percent Wednesday.


40,000 Protesters


Protesters gathered outside the offices of the regional finance department Wednesday as Civil Guard officers searched the premises for evidence that officials have helped to organize the vote. Barcelona police estimated the size of the protest at 40,000 people.


Outside, separatists unveiled a banner that read, in English, “Welcome to the Catalan Republic.” The crowd chanted that the raid was a return to the authoritarian tactics of dictator Francisco Franco and set up improvised security checks to control access to the building. The day ended in scuffles as the police managed to clear the exit to the building at 1.30 a.m., according to El Pais.


“We are here to stop the forces of Spanish repression from pushing our elected representatives around,” said Jordi Adroer, a 58-year-old economist who spent all day at Wednesday’s demonstration. “I have been waiting all my life to gain freedom, and I am willing to wait as long as it takes.”


The Old Regime


The protests are due to resume in the symbolic Plaza Lluis Companys close to the Catalan Parliament. Companys was the last Catalan leader to declare independence from Spain in 1934 and was later executed by the Franco regime. Junqueras has a portrait of Companys hanging above his desk in his party headquarters.


The crisis in Catalonia comes with the political order that steered Spain through a three-decade boom after its return to democracy in disarray after a historic economic crisis and revelations of systemic corruption among the political elites in both Madrid and Barcelona. The fragmented parliament in Madrid, where Rajoy lacks a majority, has left the prime minister exposed as he appeals to Catalan leaders to drop their demands.


On Tuesday night, the lawmakers voted against a motion to support Rajoy’s efforts to enforce the rule of law with the left-wing populists Podemos demanding the prime minister let the Catalans vote on their future and the Socialists divided. With no clear consensus on how he should be dealing with the issue, Rajoy’s attempts to calibrate his response -- to block the vote without driving moderates into the separatist camp -- are beginning to unravel.


— With assistance by Maria Tadeo, and Charles Penty

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...gal-referendum

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Spain's government will be ready for talks with Catalonia's authorities on the reform of the funding system for the region after they abandon plans to gain independence, Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos said in an interview published Thursday.


Earlier in the week, Spain’s Civil Guard held over 40 search operations related to the preparations for the independence vote and detained more than 10 people. The searches were held in a number of governmental institutions, including Catalonia's government.


Catalan President Carles Puigdemont, in his turn, accused the Spanish government on Wednesday of a de-facto suspension of the region's self-governance with its actions to impede the Catalonia independence referendum.


"Once independence plans are dropped, we can talk… Catalonia already has a great deal of autonomy, but we could talk about a reform of the funding system and other issues," de Guindos told the Financial Times, adding that any talks would correspond to the country's constitution.


According to the minister, the government is currently more open to demands by Catalonia's former leader Artur Mas made in 2012 regarding providing more money and financial autonomy to the region.


"In 2012 it was the middle of a crisis and our focus was on avoiding a bailout for Spain… but now the situation has changed, we have more fiscal space, we have a recovery, and that opens new opportunities for discussion," the minister said, adding that independence would be "economic and financial suicide" for Catalonia due to a possible significant fall in the economic output.


On September 6, Catalonia’s Parliament passed a bill enabling an independence referendum to be held on October 1. The Spanish government called the bill illegal and challenged it in the Constitutional Court. The next day, the Constitutional Court accepted the lawsuit for review, thus suspending the Catalan law on the referendum.


https://sputniknews.com/europe/20170...dence-funding/

Wonder how much pressure was put on the Spanish government from the EU to prevent the referendum as if they voted to leave thus creating a new country/state then surely they'd have to leave the EU and then apply to join if they so desired.

Doubt the Falange successors in Madrid need much encouragement from the EU. They may have made a huge mistake though. Support for independence was running at just over 41% and the referendum would most likely have gone Madrid's way. Now they've pissed everyone off and a referendum might not be needed for independence, just mass protest.

Well if Spain can veto Scotland joining the EU, then I'm pretty sure they can veto ETA.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Well if Spain can veto Scotland joining the EU, then I'm pretty sure they can veto ETA.

ETA ?

The thread is about Catalonia.

Catalonia cannot be allowed to get independent. Otherwise, do we agree with Crimea independence?

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Catalonia cannot be allowed to get independent. Otherwise, do we agree with Crimea independence?

Of course we do. Self-determination referenda are a Soviet idea... more to the point, Crimea was illegally annexed from Russia by Khrushchev in the 60s and appended onto a made-up country called "borderland" in it's Russian dialect, so the Crimeans absolutely have the right to restore themselves to their original state, just as the Tibetans do, or any of the baltic states etc...

Originally Posted by Begbie

ETA ?

The thread is about Catalonia.

Don't you know what ETA is then Begbie?

The Spanish equivalent of all those pikey "Scots".

Catalonia is the wealthiest part of Spain. There is no way the fascists in Madrid will let it go.

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

Catalonia is the wealthiest part of Spain. There is no way the fascists in Madrid will let it go.

Such a contrast to Scotland, where it's an economic liability ruled by fascists desperate to tear it off and pin all their hopes Venezuela-style on oil, and drive the nation into a Greek tragedy-styled ajockalypse.

Absolutely - Stoneybridge Town Council (Olympic Bid) - Video Dailymotion

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Don't you know what ETA is then Begbie?

The Spanish equivalent of all those pikey "Scots".

Go and read up on ETA before you come on here slavering pish and making a James Hunt of yourself.

ETA is or was the Basque armed movement. Very similar to the IRA.

Not Catalans.

Over to you Harry.