Thread: China 'building runway in disputed South China Sea island'

Originally Posted by OhOh

The words "immediate vicinity" are not defined.

One could assume a distance a cannon ball could be effectively fired, one could assume the distance a battleship could effectively fire a shell from, one could assume the distance a missile could be effectively fired from.The umbrella of ones reach is constantly changing.

You seem to trying to infer that China can arbitrarily decide that distance....then by their measurements, the Spratleys are definitely in Philipines et al waters, and all of the Paracels are in VN waters.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Clearly, you're not.

Thank you for your opinion. The "court" has rules. The "courts" rules state that it can only make a decision if both parties agreed to that condition. China did not and as such, the ruling, whatever the decision, has no power.

https://pca-cpa.org/wp-content/uploa...Rules-2012.pdf
"Section I. Introductory rules Scope of application*
Article 1
1.
Where a State, State-controlled entity, or intergovernmental organization has agreed with one or more States, State-controlled entities, intergovernmental organizations, or private parties that disputes between them in respect of a defined legal relationship, whether contractual, treaty-based, or otherwise, shall be referred to arbitration under the Permanent Court of Arbitration
Arbitration Rules 2012 (hereinafter the “Rules”), then such disputes shall be settled in accordance with these Rules subject to such modification as the parties may agree

4.

The involvement of at least one State, State-controlled entity, or intergovernmental organization as a party to the dispute is not necessary for jurisdiction where all the parties have agreed to settle a dispute under these Rule"

That doesn't prove what you think it does... it does however mean that military intervention against China over it's illegal occupation of reefs and islets or islands is probably legal.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Yes they are. Given your poor English I am sceptical that you have either fully read or fully understood any of them; I also doubt you have any legal qualifications.

Thank you for your opinion.

"Sceptical" is the correct spelling of "sceptical"; just as "colour" is the correct spelling of "colour".

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Why are you doing it? Why do you care? Why are you so obsessively and relentlessly posting pro-PRC drivel here?

Is one only allowed to post pro ameristan and its vassals drivel? There are enough already doing that.

That wasn't my question. Are you Chinese? Are you a Chinese government agent posing as an illiterate American retard on a little forum? Or just a troll?

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

EEZ is not "Territorial Waters",

In English one can utilise the character "/" as a substitute for the words "and" or "or".
.

Posting that doesn't make any sense in any language. I can confirm, however, that you are incorrect, but I'm not going to join you in your attempt to distract.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

UNCLOS, Part II, Section2, Article 3: Breadth of the territorial sea Quote: Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles

Article 3 continues with ...... "measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention"

UNCLOS. continues with "baseline" information.Article7
Straight baselines
1. In localities where the coastline is deeply indented and cut into, or if there is a fringe of islands along the coast in its immediate vicinity, the method of straight baselines joining appropriate points may be employed in drawing the baseline from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.

The words "immediate vicinity" are not defined.

Immediate vicinity is defined by the furthest seaward extent of the low tide waterline. None of this (or the other "ambiguities") really makes much of a dent into 12 miles, and entirely misses the point that you incorrectly stated that the 200 mile EEZ was the same thing as the 12 mile territorial waters.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

The 9-dash line is about as factual as "Atlantis", "The Bermuda Triangle", and "Here be dragons"... it has no legal standing, and never has.

It may not be factual/legal, in your opinion, but China believes it's legal. Which is all they need to consider.

It's not factual or legal in anyone's opinion, legal or otherwise, outside of the Chinese regime. China can't decide what's legal and impose it on the rest of the world, unless they want a war.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Meanwhile the rest of the world yawns at the ameristani postures from the emperor with no clothes. Military, political or moral.

No they don't, the absence of imperialist clothes, military, political, or moral, is entirely Chinese - it's Mao Dynasty is ambitious and clearly craves imagined imperial glory from the past to distract it's people from privations at home as economic growth slows.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

your attempt to distract.

Spelling, colour of words

Still?

China On Edge as U.S. Aircraft Carrier Exercises in South China Sea

While the Pentagon insists its warship maneuvers – the first under President Donald Trump – are routine, Beijing has denounced them as a threat.

Bill Gertz

The aircraft-carrier strike group led by USS Carl Vinson conducting naval and air operations in the South China Sea this week is the first challenge to Beijing’s expansive maritime claims to the waters since Donald Trump took office.
The US Navy announced that the operations began on February 18, describing them as “routine,” while Chinese state media quickly called the warships’ freedom-of-navigation activities a threat to China.
A Pentagon official said the naval maneuvers were not freedom-of-navigation but exercises of the kind the US Navy has been doing for a hundred years.
The exercises were ordered by US Defense Secretary James Mattis, who is said to be concerned that a lack of regular US naval and air maneuvers in the sea has undermined regional stability.
The carrier operations put Beijing on notice that the new president likely will continue US policy in seeking to bolster regional allies that have become increasingly alarmed at China’s assertiveness in the region.
China has been creating islands on a number of atolls and rocky outcrops in the sea, and over the past 12 months has begun adding military facilities.
US analysts say the Chinese military buildup in the area has been subtle and gradual, and designed to avoid provoking a direct confrontation with Washington.
For example, naval missile emplacements have been spotted on several of China’s new islands in the Spratly archipelago. The missiles seen in intelligence imagery are assessed to have ranges of less than a mile and thus unlikely to threaten passing US warships. Intelligence analysts at the Pentagon, however, noted that the missile emplacements were built to be interchangeable with much more advanced and long-range anti-ship cruise missiles – weapons that would pose threats to US warship patrols through the waters.
Mattis is a staunch believer in Trump’s “Peace through Strength” policies. Thus he is likely to abandon the previous administration’s policy of seeking to avoid upsetting China. That led to a diminution of freedom-of-navigation operations in the South China Sea and elsewhere.
Mattis made clear in policy questions posed during his confirmation by the US Senate that China’s activities required bolstering regional allies in Southeast Asia.
“China’s behavior has led countries in the region to look for stronger US leadership,” he stated, adding that once in office he would seek to strengthen alliances and review US military capabilities in the region.
“We must continue to defend our interests there – interests that include upholding international legal rights to freedom of navigation and overflight,” he added.
Mattis said upholding freedom of navigation and overflight was “vital to the defense of our other national-security interests” – a blunt and direct statement of the strong US commitment to preventing any attempt to turn the South China Sea into a Chinese lake.
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson also weighed in on the dispute, promising during his confirmation that the United States would block China from further militarizing the islands.
In addition to the Vinson and its warplanes, the guided-missile destroyer USS Meyer is taking part in the South China Sea operations. Strike aircraft that will be flying over the sea include F/A-18 Super Hornet jets, helicopters, and electronic-warfare jets.
Before entering the sea, the ships conducted training off Hawaii and Guam to improve their military capabilities and “develop cohesion as a strike group,” the US Navy said in a statement.
“The training completed over the past few weeks has really brought the team together and improved our effectiveness and readiness as a strike group,” said Rear Admiral James Kilby, the strike-group commander. “We are looking forward to demonstrating those capabilities while building upon existing strong relationships with our allies, partners and friends in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.”
Last week, China’s Foreign Ministry warned the United States against challenging its claims to the waters.
“China respects and upholds the freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea, which countries enjoy under international law, but firmly opposes any country’s attempt to undermine China’s sovereignty and security in the name of the freedom of navigation and overflight,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang said.
On Sunday, Global Times, an often strident mouthpiece of China’s Communist Party, said “The deployment of the US aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson to the South China Sea on Saturday is a military threat to China.” However, the usually over-the-top anti-US rhetoric of the paper was absent from the recent article. Instead of calling the exercises an act of war or other hostile action, the newspaper stated only that the naval maneuvers would increase the risk of unspecified “interference.”
Retired US Navy Captain Jim Fanell said the carrier deployment was a routine occurrence in the post-World War II US Pacific Fleet.
“Likewise, this carrier strike group’s operations in the South China Sea is neither unprecedented or provocative,” Fanell said. “Quite to the contrary, and despite protests from Beijing, it is encouraging to see the new US administration physically demonstrate America’s continued commitment to the principle of freedom of navigation in international waters.”


China On Edge as U.S. Aircraft Carrier Exercises in South China Sea

I want to see the Royal Navy back there... who do you think most of the islands were named by?!

South China Sea: US warship sails close to disputed Mischief Reef

A US warship has sailed close to an artificial island built by China in the South China Sea, the first challenge to Beijing's claim to the waters since President Donald Trump took office.

According to unnamed sources cited by US media, the USS Dewey passed within 12 nautical miles of Mischief Reef.

China claims almost all of the South China Sea, including reefs and islands also claimed by other nations.

The US insists it can conduct operations in any international waters.

It says it does not take sides in territorial disputes, but has sent military ships and planes near disputed islands in the past, calling them "freedom of navigation" operations to ensure access to key shipping and air routes.

It has also repeatedly criticised what it sees as Beijing's efforts to limit freedom of navigation in the strategic waters.
What is Freedom of Navigation?

The US Freedom of Navigation programme challenges "excessive claims" to the world's oceans and airspace.

It was developed to promote international adherence to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

In the past years, the US conducted Freedom of Navigation operations against China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam.

China has been causing alarm in the region by building up South China Sea reefs and islets into artificial islands and installing some military positions.

Why is the South China Sea contentious?
Satellite photos 'show weapons' built on islands
What do 'hangars' in the South China Sea tell us?

Both the US and China have accused each other of "militarising" the South China Sea and there are concerns the area is becoming a flashpoint with potentially serious global consequences.

The latest US manoeuvre is likely to weigh on US-China relations as the Trump administration is seeking Beijing's co-operation to deal with North Korea's nuclear ambitions.
The South China Sea dispute
Media captionIn 2015, the BBC got a view of a new Chinese runway on Mischief Reef

Sovereignty over two largely uninhabited island chains, the Paracels and the Spratlys, is disputed by China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan and Malaysia.

China claims the largest portion of territory, saying its rights go back centuries - in 1947 it issued a map detailing its claims.

The area is a major shipping route, and a rich fishing ground, and is thought to have abundant oil and gas reserves.

The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea typically gives states an exclusive economic zone up to 200 nautical miles from their coastline - this would leave most of the Spratly Islands in the territorial waters of the Philippines and Malaysia.

South China Sea: US warship sails close to disputed Mischief Reef - BBC News

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

I want to see the Royal Navy back there... who do you think most of the islands were named by?!

The Chinese.

南沙群岛 (Nánshā Qúndǎo)

Long before Whaling captain Richard Spratly spotted them in the 19th Century.

Actually about 2,000 years before.

200BC, and started to occupy and govern them around 111BC.

You may be interested in a quick historical chronology.

Spratly Islands History Timeline - Nansha Islands of China

Originally Posted by Looper

According to unnamed sources cited by US media, the USS Dewey passed within 12 nautical miles of Mischief Reef

Fake news unless you have proof.

Originally Posted by Looper

The US insists it can conduct operations in any international waters.

UNCLOS has defined all water bodies as "Territorial" seas OR "High" seas. There is no UNCLOS definition/mention of the ameristani term "international waters". An imaginary illegal term, except to the special ones who lead ameristan.

Originally Posted by Looper

Beijing's efforts to limit freedom of navigation

Care to list some examples of China's "limiting efforts" or it's fake news.

Originally Posted by Looper

The US Freedom of Navigation programme

ameristan does have some quaint national laws/programmes, not always legal by international bodies standards - rendition, water boarding, cluster bombs, ignoring international laws.........

Originally Posted by Looper

China has been causing alarm in the region by building up South China Sea reefs and islets into artificial islands and installing some military positions

China is doing just the opposite. Forming and agreeing with the locals, ASEAN etc., protocols of behaviour and engaging in bilateral talks. Hopefully they will be win/win for all. ameristan on the other hand, struts around the area leaving it's piles of shit and proclaiming victory. When did ameristan ever become victorious over anybody?

Originally Posted by Looper

The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea typically gives states an exclusive economic zone up to 200 nautical miles from their coastline - this would leave most of the Spratly Islands in the territorial waters of the Philippines and Malaysia.

You post a red herring from the biased BBC report. Economic zones are measured from the extremity of a sovereign countries land mass or sovereign islands plus joining straight lines. Not relevant at all until all have agreed who owns what.

^Our resident prawn cracker Dodo is back and mis-firing on all cylinders!

Originally Posted by OhOh

unless you have proof

Originally Posted by OhOh

Care to list some examples

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Looper

China has been causing alarm in the region by building up South China Sea reefs and islets into artificial islands and installing some military positions

China is doing just the opposite. Forming and agreeing with the locals, ASEAN etc., protocols of behaviour and engaging in bilateral talks.

Nonsense....they are bullies, and this has been the Communist Chinese behaviour for a long time.

China's strident and hysterical rhetoric is only upstaged by that of North Korea.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Looper

China has been causing alarm in the region by building up South China Sea reefs and islets into artificial islands and installing some military positions

China is doing just the opposite. Forming and agreeing with the locals, ASEAN etc., protocols of behaviour and engaging in bilateral talks.

Nonsense....they are bullies, and this has been the Communist Chinese behaviour for a long time.

China's strident and hysterical rhetoric is only upstaged by that of North Korea.

Hear hear! Well said!

Originally Posted by Looper

mis-firing on all cylinders

As yours rusted up many moons ago what would you know about a well oiled machine lubricated daily with love from my "friends" here on TD

Does your experience repairing mining equipment in Asian mines up to your neck in filth, allow you some knowledge you wish to share.

But no that's not your and your "friends" style. Just insult others.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Nonsense

Originally Posted by Geezy

Hear hear! Well said!

Oh two more whose education stopped at pre-school. The ability to converse is probably, the English Lawyers use of the word, beyond their ability to dissuade them from opening a dictionary.

Originally Posted by Looper

A US warship has sailed close to an artificial island built by China in the South China Sea,

The ameristani interloper was requested, allegedly, to politely fuck off.

"The latest US patrol was expected to exacerbate U.S.-China tensions that had eased since Trump hosted Chinese President Xi Jinping for a summit at the U.S. leader's Florida resort last month, and sure enough, on Thursday morning, China's foreign ministry urged the US to stop such "procovative acts." According to Bloomberg, China Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said that U.S. actions cause severe disruption to negotiation and dialogue over South China Sea. Additionally, Lu said the US warship, which China's navy tracker, was "trespassing" and warned it to "leave immediately" as the U.S. act "undermined Chinese sovereignty and security" and was very likely to "cause sea and air accidents."

Finally, China urged the U.S. to "correct its wrong behavior which is breaking good momentum in South China Sea, and to take steps to improve military relations."
Having yielded to Xi on virtually every item in the past, we doubt Trump will put up anything more than a token defense of the US action, and we will likely not hear about any more such "freedom of navigation" incidents for a long time."

All in accordance to UNCLOS, which ameristani refuses to acknowledge but struts around shitting everywhere and claims victory.



The world watches the infantile ameristani administration actions, like a known school yard bully and smiles, to those that know.

US warns Beijing on South China Sea islands

The US will not accept China's militarisation of man-made islands in the South China Sea, Defence Secretary James Mattis has warned.

Speaking at a security conference in Singapore, he said such moves undermined regional stability.

China's territorial claims in the resource-rich South China Sea are contested by several nations.

At the same time, Gen Mattis praised Beijing's efforts to restrain North Korea's missile and nuclear activity.

His comments came shortly after the UN Security Council expanded targeted sanctions against North Korea in response to a series of missile tests conducted this year.

The council voted unanimously to back the sanctions after weeks of negotiations between the US and China.

Why is the South China Sea contentious?
See images from Woody/Yongxing Island
China's Island Factory
Flying close to Beijing's new South China Sea islands

In his speech at the annual Shangri-La Dialogue forum, Gen Mattis said: "We oppose countries militarising artificial islands and enforcing excessive maritime claims.

"We cannot and will not accept unilateral, coercive changes to the status quo."

President Donald Trump and other senior US officials have repeatedly stated that they would protect its interests in the South China Sea, a key shipping route.

During his nomination hearing earlier this year, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson warned that the US was "going to have to send China a clear signal that first the island-building stops, and second your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed."

In response, the Chinese foreign ministry said Beijing would "remain firm to defend its rights in the region".
Image copyright Getty Images
Image caption China is one of a number of countries who lay claim to parts of the South China Sea



But in Singapore Gen Mattis also struck a positive note on US-China relations, saying that while competition between the two countries "is bound to occur, conflict is not inevitable".

The biggest question amongst Asian delegates attending the forum has been how much of a role the US will continue to play in this increasingly tense region, the BBC's Karishma Vaswani in Singapore reports.

She adds that Gen Mattis sought to reassure his peers that the US was not turning its back on Asia.
What is the South China Sea dispute?

Rival countries have wrangled over territory in the South China Sea for centuries, but tension has steadily increased in recent years.

Its islets and waters are claimed in part or in whole by Taiwan, China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei.

Beijing has been building artificial islands on reefs and carrying out naval patrols in waters also claimed by these other nations.

Although the previous US administration of Barack Obama insisted it was neutral, it spoke out strongly against the island-building and sought to build ties with, and among, the South East Asian nations whose claims overlap those of China.

In July 2016, an international tribunal ruled against Chinese claims, backing a case brought by the Philippines, but Beijing said it would not respect the verdict.

The frictions have sparked concern that the area is becoming a flashpoint with global consequences.

US warns Beijing on South China Sea islands - BBC News


The language is getting a bit more ballsy.

Shame it is 3 years late and there is the NK distraction to complicate things.

The ameristani interloper was requested, allegedly, to politely fuck off.

What's your bubble made of? Seems quite thick, bit like the two brain cells in your noggin, OhOhIPutMyFootInMyMouthAgain.

China rejects US, Japanese officials' remarks on South China Sea, Taiwan



China rejects US, Japanese officials' remarks on South China Sea, Taiwan - Global Times


Some day the ameristanis and their vassals may say the same things. Currently their is little consistency and even less ability to act.


The emperor with no clothes continues to strut, preen, shit around the world and people laugh as he leaves.


Recently a visit to SA allegedly resulted in multi billion "sales" of ameristani offensive weapons. Seen any booked orders or just more sound bites for the sheeple. 4 or 5 ameristani corporations announced these deals. No info on their web sites except one.


The yellow highlights might puncture the illusive bubble for you.



"Lockheed Martin Plays Major Role In Strengthening United States And Kingdom Of Saudi Arabia Ties To Bolster Global Security

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, May 20, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- Today the United States and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) took major steps to enhance global security and stimulate economic progress in the United States and the Middle East. KSA has expressed its intent to procure more than $28 billion worth of Lockheed Martin integrated air and missile defense, combat ship, tactical aircraft and rotary wing technologies and programs.


"At Lockheed Martin, we are proud to be part of this historic announcement that will strengthen the relationship between the United States and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia," said Lockheed Martin Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer Marillyn Hewson. "We are especially proud of how our broad portfolio of advanced global security products and technologies will enhance national security in Saudi Arabia, strengthen the cause of peace in the region, and provide the foundation for job creation and economic prosperity in the U.S. and in the Kingdom. These agreements will directly contribute to His Majesty's Vision 2030 by opening the door for thousands of highly skilled jobs in new economic sectors."
The announcement includes:

• Letters of Offer and Acceptance and a Memorandum of Intent covering government-to-government sales of Lockheed Martin programs to include integrated air and missile defense systems, multi-mission surface combatant ships, radar systems, surveillance systems, tactical aircraft and rotary wing programs.
• A Letter of Intent, between Lockheed Martin and Taqnia, to form a joint venture to support final assembly and completion of an estimated 150 S-70 Black Hawk utility helicopters for the Saudi government. The program supports work for more than 450 U.S. jobs including in Connecticut at Sikorsky and throughout the U. S. supply chain and also supports KSA's Vision 2030 by creating an additional 450 jobs in the Kingdom, developing local capabilities through technology and skills transfer, thus enhancing the U.S.-Saudi global security partnership.
• A Memorandum of Understanding between Lockheed Martin and Saudi Arabian Military Industries for the parties to work together to build defense capabilities in the KSA to support Vision 2030 and provide for localization efforts associated with Multi-mission Surface Combatants and Aerostats.

Once fully realized, the programs in this announcement will support more than 18,000 highly skilled jobs in the U.S. and thousands of jobs in Saudi Arabia as part of maintaining and modernizing these platforms over the next 30 years. These programs help the Saudi government realize its Vision 2030 objective of building its domestic technology capabilities and skilled workforce."

"
Forward-Looking Statements
This news release contains statements that, to the extent they are not recitations of historical fact, constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws, and are based on Lockheed Martin's current expectations and assumptions. Many factors could cause actual results to differ materially from these forward-looking statements including: our ability to reach definitive agreements with respect to the programs described; our ability to successfully perform those programs; our ability to successfully transfer technology and skills; economic, industry, business and political conditions (domestic and international) including their effects on governmental policy; and risks associated with doing business internationally."

China IS the reject - hated by all it's neighbours, and the world in general.

Just look at them travelling in a pack, like demented locusts. You enjoy being around that, OhOhIPutMyFootInMyMouthAgain?

They are a crowd of sneaky fuks and need to be kept an eye on.

The idea of these shady characters aspiring to be a role model global leader is scary.

The way the chinky government has tentacles everywhere overseas, even down to keeping their student populations on message with their political aims, makes their apparent global aspirations worrying.

Aussie should clamp down on their attempts to weasel their way into our democratic political machinery.

ASIO investigation targets Communist Party links to Australian political system



ASIO investigation targets Communist Party links to Australian political system - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

ASIO warns political parties over foreign donations


ASIO warns political parties over foreign donations - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Originally Posted by crackerjack101

ASIO investigation targets Communist Party links to Australian political system - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

just read that this afternoon - a good read - but the reality is everyone is doing it

seppos have been doing it to us for years - even the international oil and mining companies