Thread: Buying Gold with my Thai savings?

^ So what about you Andy? Do you have to pay tax twice on your capital gains made in Thailand?

Originally Posted by 9999

I'm not interested in becoming a tax resident of USA, that's for sure, though that's all you've been referring to draco. Are you also well versed in tax laws of all countries?

why do you think i have been referring to US tax law? strange assumption....

i have mentioned it but to think that is all i have referred to is missing the point completely.

Originally Posted by 9999

Again...

Originally Posted by draco888

If I buy a ring in Australia for $1,000 and take it to Thailand (as an Australian tax resident), sell it for $3,000, you are saying I'm obliged to report this as taxable income (of course you can choose to, but is it unlawful not to) to the ATO?

Give us a straight answer on this one. Obliged or not?

yes there is a tax liability on that.

Originally Posted by draco888

why do you think i have been referring to US tax law?

Oh, about 10 pages of posts about US tax obligations.

Funny how the main question in point have been ignored.

Is it common practice for citizens of the world to pay tax when they buy gold outside of their own country, both to the host country and country of residence. Simple question for you 'experts'.

Originally Posted by 9999

According to your rhetoric, the majority of the world has to pay tax twice on any profitable transaction made overseas. Is this the case?

why twice? what makes you think that?

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by 9999

Originally Posted by socal

Same with Canada. Just move it in 9999 increments if u have to

Yes there is no law sating you can't make multiple 'small' transactions. Just like Aussie banks are obliged to report any transaction over $10,000, deposit or withdrawal, to the ATO. So only ever do $9900. Then again the next day and the next. This is not tax evasion and well within the rules of the game, for most countries.

You don't think a transaction of $9900 one day, and the next day, and the next day would not come under the suspicion rules and required to be reported? Such naivety is beyond belief.....

They won't have a fucking clue. U are still moving the gold secretly but only in 9999 increments to cover your ass if they find it for some reason

such naivety is cute in young children, less so in adults.

fuck nuts.

Do you actually think that there is no capital controls or protocols around the world and that taxes are based purely on the honor system ?

H[QUOTE=draco888;2223534][quote=socal;2223338][quote=draco888;2223187][quote=socal;2223177]

Originally Posted by OhOh

this is where we have have a difference of opinion, it's a huge red flag and the quickest way of attracting attention. best way to invite a full audit of your tax affairs.

If u successfully move physical gold to Germany, sell it for cash and move the cash to Switzerland and into a nameless bank account then nobody knows shit.

Originally Posted by 9999

Originally Posted by draco888

why do you think i have been referring to US tax law?

Oh, about 10 pages of posts about US tax obligations.

Funny how the main question in point have been ignored.

Is it common practice for citizens of the world to pay tax when they buy gold outside of their own country, both to the host country and country of residence. Simple question for you 'experts'.

no it is not, usually tax is only paid to the country you are tax resident of, this has been covered already.

Originally Posted by 9999

^ So what about you Andy? Do you have to pay tax twice on your capital gains made in Thailand?

no

Thailand and the Uk have a reciprocal agreement

not that I have made any Capital gains!

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by 9999

Yes there is no law sating you can't make multiple 'small' transactions. Just like Aussie banks are obliged to report any transaction over $10,000, deposit or withdrawal, to the ATO. So only ever do $9900. Then again the next day and the next. This is not tax evasion and well within the rules of the game, for most countries.

You don't think a transaction of $9900 one day, and the next day, and the next day would not come under the suspicion rules and required to be reported? Such naivety is beyond belief.....

They won't have a fucking clue. U are still moving the gold secretly but only in 9999 increments to cover your ass if they find it for some reason

such naivety is cute in young children, less so in adults.

fuck nuts.

Do you actually think that there is no capital controls or protocols around the world and that taxes are based purely on the honor system ?

bizarre question.

Originally Posted by socal

If u successfully move physical gold to Germany, sell it for cash and move the cash to Switzerland and into a nameless bank account then nobody knows shit.

dumping cash brings up money laundering questions, even in Switzerland

[quote=socal;2223690]H[quote=draco888;2223534][quote=socal;2223338][quote=draco888;2223187]

Originally Posted by socal

If u successfully move physical gold to Germany, sell it for cash and move the cash to Switzerland and into a nameless bank account then nobody knows shit.

so what you are saying is if you successfully do something you have been successful? truly profound, thanks for that pearl of wisdom.

nameless swiss bank account? i think you have been watching too many james bond movies from the 1960's....

have you enquired about opening a nameless bank account in switzerland recently? if so i'd like to hear what the banks response was.

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by draco888

You don't think a transaction of $9900 one day, and the next day, and the next day would not come under the suspicion rules and required to be reported? Such naivety is beyond belief.....

They won't have a fucking clue. U are still moving the gold secretly but only in 9999 increments to cover your ass if they find it for some reason

such naivety is cute in young children, less so in adults.

fuck nuts.

Do you actually think that there is no capital controls or protocols around the world and that taxes are based purely on the honor system ?

bizarre question.

Its not a bizarre question.

You think that income tax enforcement is based on an honor system where you are expected to disclose everything to the government even if there is no other way of them knowing about it.

That isn't how the world works. Have you ever downloaded free music or movies ?

How many people do you think have downloaded or purchased pirated music or movies ? Almost everyone has even though it is just as illegal as not disclosing some over seas capital gains.

People do what they can reasonably get away with. Its as simple as that.

I am saying that I can reasonably get away with not paying capital gains on gold. Do I think I am 100% compliant with the law ? I don't know yet.

[quote=draco888;2223702][quote=socal;2223690]H[quote=draco888;2223534][quote=socal;2223338][quote=draco888;2223187]

so what you are saying is if you successfully do something you have been successful? truly profound, thanks for that pearl of wisdom.

No FFS.

I am saying that I can LEGALLY move $9999 amounts of gold to Europe and wash it into a bank account. The only way the government would know about it is if I told them. The process of me doing it IS NOT illegal.

nameless swiss bank account? i think you have been watching too many james bond movies from the 1960's....

Here you are assuming everyone is American again...

UBS Closing Accounts of Americans

– UBS, the large Swiss bank, has come under attack from the USA regarding their operating inside the USA. They ran seminars inside of the USA promoting their offshore Swiss Banking and Lichtenstein Trusts. Of course the first mistake was operating physically inside of the USA. Their second mistake was offering tax reduction strategies inside of the USA. From there the errors just added up giving the USA Authority, Venue and Jurisdiction over UBS.


The USA eventually arrested a UBS banker in the USA. This banker in return for a diminished sentence provided testimony about UBS actions violating USA law. The Justice department then got an order from a USA court to get the UBS Swiss banking records on some 20,000 Americans. The USA does not have the names but estimates the amount of Americans opening accounts at UBS from 2002 to 2007 to be 20,000.

have you enquired about opening a nameless bank account in switzerland recently? if so i'd like to hear what the banks response was.

UBS Swiss Bank Closing Accounts of Americans

Protection for the Client – We can speculate as to whether or not this sort of thing will happen in other banks in Switzerland and in other countries. The UBS bank really asked for this legally. Most don’t understand the law and are oblivious to the legality but UBS walked right into this one by handing the USA jurisdiction and authority by setting up tax reduction offices and seminars inside the USA and they got slammed. It is probably not going to go further to other countries but the scare value is great and the media is exploiting this.
The way to protect yourself from such an attack or fishing expedition in the future is to get a second passport and driver license from another country. Do this under a different name by having a name change in the judges chambers sealed by the judge so there is no trail to your new identity. Now you are you – same person, same picture, same signature, just a new name. This is not illegal. Many citizens of many countries hold dual citizenships.


Opening a bank account under your other identity documents is also not illegal. Dual nationals open bank accounts commonly with their second set of ID and have been doing so for years. Some people I met legally have seven passports and citizenships. So if the bank records, corporate records and stock broker records have you as a citizen of a small country that does not tax offshore income you will not be caught in any of these fishing nets.


Banking in a country that is not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for tax collectors like Switzerland is, can also be a good idea. We advocate Guatemala for this. It is a relatively small country with solid democracies and solid banking. Guatemala will be most unlikely to cooperate with other countries except in cases of major criminality. Remember the Swiss signed a tax information sharing agreement with the USA some years ago and that is what the subpoena for the 20,000 banking records is based on. Panama has no tax treaties with any country.

[quote=socal;2223790][quote=draco888;2223693][quote=socal;2223683][quote=draco888;2223537]

Originally Posted by socal

I am saying that I can reasonably get away with not paying capital gains on gold. Do I think I am 100% compliant with the law ? I don't know yet.

i'm pretty sure it's not compliant to hide gains on gold.

[quote=socal;2223802][quote=draco888;2223702][quote=socal;2223690]H[quote=draco888;2223534][quote=socal;2223338]

Originally Posted by draco888

No FFS.

I am saying that I can LEGALLY move $9999 amounts of gold to Europe and wash it into a bank account. The only way the government would know about it is if I told them. The process of me doing it IS NOT illegal.

you are missing the basic point again here. moving the gold is not illegal. evading the tax is illegal. this has already been covered.

[quote=socal;2223802][quote=draco888;2223702][quote=socal;2223690]H[quote=draco888;2223534][quote=socal;2223338]

Originally Posted by draco888

Here you are assuming everyone is American again...

UBS Closing Accounts of Americans

why do you think i am assuming everyone is american, i have never assumed anyone is american. i was referring to your 'nameless' swiss bank accounts.

^ why do you assume that Socal can understand your posts?

Originally Posted by DrAndy

^ why do you assume that Socal can understand your posts?

the problem with discussing both gold and tax is that they are emotive issues for some people, for and against. People 'think' things should work a certain way and look for justifications for their point of view rather than just reading the legislation to see what the actual rules are in reality. Once they understand what the rules are they can then make a decision on whether they wish to comply with those rules or not, but to try to pretend they are not in breach of the tax rules just because the tax authorities are not aware of the transaction is childish.

I have nothing against people wishing to minimize the tax obligations, who likes paying taxes to inefficient and hypocritical governments when that money is better off spent down in the bar?

Originally Posted by DrAndy

^ why do you assume that Socal can understand your posts?

Socal is a passionate Gold enthusiast, a dreamer, someone who live in alternate reality, being clueless is what make him so special here

Originally Posted by draco888

because the tax authorities are not aware of the transaction is childish.

it's not childish, it's being unrealistic and naive

9999 is a die hard gamer, so can't blame him really, and socal is a Gold enthusiast, so again two character traits that have tendencies to live in alternate realities.

You know my take on Gold, I think it's a poor investment in absolute and relative terms, for obvious reasons. Love Gold as a pretty metal for jewelry or in ancient artifacts or even as coin collectibles.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Love Gold as a pretty metal for jewelry or in ancient artifacts or even as coin collectibles.

OK, I might have been wrong about tax obligations so please answer this; if I'm an Australian tax resident, I have to pay tax on capital gains made overseas, as well as the host jurisdiction, unless there is a tax treaty?

As far as gold / jewellery, I think it's a great investment because to my understanding realised profits are not subject to tax (in my situation). Where does Thailand stand on this.

And why did it take 40 pages for tax residency to even be brought up (the reason I entered the discussion)?

Draco, you seem to know what you're on about so I won't argue, I'm no expert and my info is second hand. For the record though, I have bought, sold and realised profits on physical gold in Thailand, and got advice (from a fake, according to Butters, professional) that I was not obliged to pay any tax.

Originally Posted by socal

You don't think a transaction of $9900 one day, and the next day, and the next day would not come under the suspicion rules and required to be reported? Such naivety is beyond belief.....

I've done this often with cash, both in and out of Australia. The banks are obliged to report transactions $10K and over to the tax office. Not sure if similar applies to gold or other precious assets, but I have my doubts about Draco saying anything over $500 is reportable. Just to clarify, Draco, did you mean $500 in gains or a $500 transaction?