Thread: Buying Gold with my Thai savings?

Originally Posted by buriramboy

The US obviously thought it important enough to get Gadaffi overthrown when Libya was just about to announce that it was only going to accept gold for oil payments.

yeah and strange that throughout history people have gone to extraordinary lengths to acquire something which is not important.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by draco888

you seem to be suggesting all the worlds gold holders are wrong and you are right, interesting......

Gold has an history of creating fevers and attracting fools. I think history is more telling than anything else.

a bit like virtually every other asset class then?

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by buriramboy

The US obviously thought it important enough to get Gadaffi overthrown when Libya was just about to announce that it was only going to accept gold for oil payments.

yeah and strange that throughout history people have gone to extraordinary lengths to acquire something which is not important.

China have been buying for years, and they only declare their holdings when they feel like it, think their last upgrade was from 500 tonnes to 1100 tonnes but everyone knows they have a shed load more.

Originally Posted by draco888

a bit like virtually every other asset class then?

not really, Gold is something that every fool can understand. See socal.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by draco888

a bit like virtually every other asset class then?

not really, Gold is something that every fool can understand. See socal.

i seem to recall fevers and fools in all the major asset classes not just gold.

Originally Posted by draco888

i seem to recall fevers and fools in all the major asset classes not just gold.

there can be in Stocks and Real Estate but not as emotionally epic as Gold

[quote=draco888;2221838]

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by draco888

The gain is still realized, Even if you spend it. If I transport all my gold to Singapore and sell it, for Singapore dollars that I spend on hookers, I don't have to declare it to Revenscrew Canada ? But is I invest it, I have to declare it ?

I suspect that even though you claim to be well versed in these matters that you have in fact had very little experience dealing with tax authorities and next to no knowledge of how to calculate tax liabilities. This is not meant as criticism, tax legislation does not make for stimulating reading for most people. But if you really believe there is no capital gains tax on gold in 'the eurozone' and don't understand the concept of tax residency you really know basically nothing. How much tax legislation have you actually read from source? Please be honest. Or are you actually just imagining what you think should be the case? You really think tax authorities hearing of moving gold to Singapore to sell are really going to agree there is no tax liability? You are living in a dream world if you believe so. More likely they will issue with a notice of liability of the tax owed and a time period you have in which to pay it. They have heard such simplistic nonsense many thousands of times before from bar stool tax experts.

I paid a $3000 dollar fine last year for tax issues. I'm not saying that I know more then you about taxes.

Draco, are you telling me that you would notify your tax authority if you decided to move some gold over seas and sell it ? Gold that the government didn't have the slightest clue you owned ?

The government taxes as much as they have th ability to enforce. You are saying that I am commiting tax fraud but my chances of getting away with it are close to 100% and Even if I was caught, the chances of the govts case holding up in court are minuscule.

And you still havnt proven that it is illegal. 9999 is an Aussy and he doesn't think its illegal either

there is nothing illegal about selling gold overseas, the issue is whether you completed your tax return fully.

nationality is not the issue, australian or otherwise, tax residency(s) is the starting point. what someone 'thinks' is really not important in establishing whether a tax liability exists or not.

Using physical Singapore dollars for example, the question is, from a taxation standpoint, is the gain realized if it is never transferred back into your local currency ?

You said yes earlier in the thread but then you said no when I mentioned spending it on HK hookers

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by buriramboy

The US obviously thought it important enough to get Gadaffi overthrown when Libya was just about to announce that it was only going to accept gold for oil payments.

yeah and strange that throughout history people have gone to extraordinary lengths to acquire something which is not important.

China have been buying for years, and they only declare their holdings when they feel like it, think their last upgrade was from 500 tonnes to 1100 tonnes but everyone knows they have a shed load more.

China is the biggest importer and the biggest producer of gold.

That is like Saudi Arabia being the biggest importer of oil. Imagine that..

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by draco888

a bit like virtually every other asset class then?

not really, Gold is something that every fool can understand. See socal.

You can only buy as much as you understand. That is why you have none

Which countries are the largest gold producers?

After dominating gold production for decades, South Africa lost its number one place in 2007. It is now the fourth-largest producer, down 6.4% from 2009 to 192,000 kilograms. The British Geological Survey attributes their decline in production to the mines’ maturity and declining reserves. At the same time, production costs and accidents have been on the rise.
Like Russia, the United States is traditionally dominant, but has recently lost ground to new producers and has declined by 13% over the last five years. The US is the third largest, producing 230 tonnes in 2010.
China is easily the world’s largest consumer of the metal, but we often forget they are also the world’s largest producer. For the year 2010, it produced 345 tonnes. Its output has increased by 62% since 2001 and it routinely breaks its own records for annual gold production.

told you already socal, if it's coins, it's assumed it's for collectibles, so it's not taxed or taxed at lower rates, like buying a stamp collection

regardless, your tax liability is still there in your case since you are Canadian and you buy Gold bars, draco888 was right all along

Originally Posted by socal

Canada:
* no sales tax on 999 fine gold, silver
* usual sales tax on less fine gold, silver
* (might be a relic from a promotion of their Maple Leaf coins that were the first 999 fine investment coins - the traditional ones, Krugers, Sovereigns etc. are less fine)
* same capital gains tax as on stocks and other investments

UK:
* sales tax? (zero on gold by EU directive, how about silver?)
* no capital gains tax on specific UK issued gold coins (this is the reason you cannot get any Britannias and Sovereigns anywhere these days - they are all sucked up by the UK), but the usual capital gains tax on other coins and bars
* usual capital gains tax on paper gold, ETFs etc. (the contrast with the Sovereigns is a small statement at least!)

Germany:
* no sales tax on physical gold
* some sales tax on physical silver (that's a statement!)
* usual capital gains tax if you hold physical gold, silver for less than 12 months
* free of capital gains tax if you hold physical metal for at least 12 months
* paper gold, funds, ETFs, always subject to capital gains tax (again sort of a statement)

^Looks like the Krauts have this figured out..

Britianas.. No cap gains

UK charges VAT (sales tax) on silver.

[quote=Butterfly;2222029]

told you already socal, if it's coins, it's assumed it's for collectibles, so it's not taxed or taxed at lower rates, like buying a stamp collection

So you can sell gold in the UK free of capital gains tax.

regardless, your tax liability is still there in your case since you are Canadian and you buy Gold bars, draco888 was right all along

No actually, it looks like physical gold has to be specifically researched tax wise because none of us know how the hell it is taxed.

In Krautville, you can buy physical metal (not coins) and sell at a profit and pay no capital gains tax.

Yet Krautville uses the same currency as 17 other countries so I don't know how they can possibly enforce cap gains taxes on gold in surrounding countries.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

told you already socal, if it's coins, it's assumed it's for collectibles, so it's not taxed or taxed at lower rates, like buying a stamp collection

regardless, your tax liability is still there in your case since you are Canadian and you buy Gold bars, draco888 was right all along

I'm not sure which jurisdiction you are referring to but in the USA physical gold is deemed to be a 'collectible' and is taxed; and if it is held for longer than 12 months is taxed at an even higher tax rate not lower.

Originally Posted by draco888

Originally Posted by socal

Canada:
* no sales tax on 999 fine gold, silver
* usual sales tax on less fine gold, silver
* (might be a relic from a promotion of their Maple Leaf coins that were the first 999 fine investment coins - the traditional ones, Krugers, Sovereigns etc. are less fine)
* same capital gains tax as on stocks and other investments

UK:
* sales tax? (zero on gold by EU directive, how about silver?)
* no capital gains tax on specific UK issued gold coins (this is the reason you cannot get any Britannias and Sovereigns anywhere these days - they are all sucked up by the UK), but the usual capital gains tax on other coins and bars
* usual capital gains tax on paper gold, ETFs etc. (the contrast with the Sovereigns is a small statement at least!)

Germany:
* no sales tax on physical gold
* some sales tax on physical silver (that's a statement!)
* usual capital gains tax if you hold physical gold, silver for less than 12 months
* free of capital gains tax if you hold physical metal for at least 12 months
* paper gold, funds, ETFs, always subject to capital gains tax (again sort of a statement)

^Looks like the Krauts have this figured out..

Britianas.. No cap gains

UK charges VAT (sales tax) on silver.

I asked Victor the Cleaner about this yesterday. He doesn't like silver so he was being smug about it.

Vics website The Many Values Of Gold « Victor The Cleaner


In Switzerland, you can buy physical gold or silver and export it from Switzerland, but have it stored it in the international areas at one of the Swiss airports. In this case, Swiss sales tax does not apply until you re-import it to Switzerland (or some other country).

I thought capital gain long term tax rates were below short term tax rates ? is that not the case for Gold ?

[quote=socal;2222037]

Originally Posted by Butterfly

told you already socal, if it's coins, it's assumed it's for collectibles, so it's not taxed or taxed at lower rates, like buying a stamp collection

So you can sell gold in the UK free of capital gains tax.

you can on very specific coins - those that are legal currency in the UK.

Originally Posted by socal

In Krautville, you can buy physical metal (not coins) and sell at a profit and pay no capital gains tax.

yes, but you need to be a German citizen or tax liable in Germany, which is not your case

do you understand the concept of tax jurisdiction ?

[quote=socal;2222037]

Originally Posted by Butterfly

told you already socal, if it's coins, it's assumed it's for collectibles, so it's not taxed or taxed at lower rates, like buying a stamp collection

So you can sell gold in the UK free of capital gains tax.

regardless, your tax liability is still there in your case since you are Canadian and you buy Gold bars, draco888 was right all along

No actually, it looks like physical gold has to be specifically researched tax wise because none of us know how the hell it is taxed.

In Krautville, you can buy physical metal (not coins) and sell at a profit and pay no capital gains tax.

Yet Krautville uses the same currency as 17 other countries so I don't know how they can possibly enforce cap gains taxes on gold in surrounding countries.

OK i have said this before but I don't think you understood it. I mean this without any sarcasm or bad intent. At the moment you have not grasped the basic principle of taxation, in other words you don't even know which side of the road you should be driving on never mind the rules of the road. It is you as an individual who is the subject of tax. whichever jurisdiction you are tax resident of has the relevant rules for computing tax. the fact that you go to germany or wherever to sell your gold and whatever the rules on capital gains tax on gold are there has no bearing on your tax liability. You, Mr XYZ, have a tax liability in your tax resident jurisdiction no matter whether you were standing in germany, singapore or the moon when you sold that gold. It is very simple for each member of the eurozone to have different tax rules as they are taxing their residents and not the instruments (gold) themselves.

Until this fundamental concept is understood there is no point in discussing anything further.

to know how the hell gold is taxed you need to read the tax legislation of the jurisdiction you are a tax resident of. there is no point in looking at how germany or singapore chooses to tax gold unless you are a tax resident of those places.

i hope this is a little clearer now.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by socal

In Krautville, you can buy physical metal (not coins) and sell at a profit and pay no capital gains tax.

yes, but you need to be a German citizen or tax liable in Germany, which is not your case

do you understand the concept of tax jurisdiction ?

and the moment there is such a lack of even the most elementary knowledge that people don't even know what they don't know....

[quote=draco888;2222053]

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by Butterfly

told you already socal, if it's coins, it's assumed it's for collectibles, so it's not taxed or taxed at lower rates, like buying a stamp collection

So you can sell gold in the UK free of capital gains tax.

you can on very specific coins - those that are legal currency in the UK.

still , You are not taxed on the metallic value.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I thought capital gain long term tax rates were below short term tax rates ? is that not the case for Gold ?

from memory 28% but would need to check to be certain.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by socal

In Krautville, you can buy physical metal (not coins) and sell at a profit and pay no capital gains tax.

yes, but you need to be a German citizen or tax liable in Germany, which is not your case

do you understand the concept of tax jurisdiction ?

Still, Germany is no small fish and it has no cap gains tax on gold. We don't know the specific treaties that Canada and Germany has concerning physical gold.